It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
guardianlv.com...
India Mars Mission to Launch Amidst Overwhelming Poverty
What a refreshing headline! Not even poverty. It has to be “overwhelming poverty”. Who are we to launch into space? Should we not ask our British colonial masters before doing anything?
Apparently the other countries engaging in scientific research face no poverty. Apparently, space has something to do with poverty. Apparently, it is between funding Isro and solving poverty. You cannot do both. No sir, no. Next time, when you write about something that Britain did well, sure to remember to randomly incorporate the poverty of Birmingham and the riots of London into the title.
“England wins 10 Olympic golds amidst all the poverty”
“NASA begins its moon mission despite failing to manage hurricane relief”
“European Space Agency launches a satellite despite the inability to control religious riots in Paris and Tottenham, London”.
balajiviswanathan.quora.com...
How can poor countries afford space programmes?
www.economist.com...
How can poor countries afford space programmes? What if the 16,000 scientists and engineers now working on space development were deployed instead to fix rotten sanitation?
Someone from Oxford wants to know why don't we all Indians work on toilets and potty research? If this author lived at the time of Renaissance, s/he might have written: Newton, Michelangelo and da Vinci are wasting time instead of building toilets.
Someone from Oxford wants to know why don't we all Indians work on toilets and potty research?
If this author lived at the time of Renaissance, s/he might have written:
Newton, Michelangelo and da Vinci are wasting time instead of building toilets.
www.theguardian.com...
Critics of Britain's aid programme in the country have also been angered by the mission. The UK gives India around £300m each year
Britain threatens to pull its aid. This is ghastly. What would India do without all these do-gooder British aid? The Indian economy of 1 trillion pounds was badly depending on these 300 million pounds that comes with no strings attached. We are an ungrateful bunch, aren't we? We are supposed to surrender our national priorities and research work and listen to our ex-colonial masters for a paltry 300 million.
balajiviswanathan.quora.com...
It is exciting for the children and teenagers, many of whom might take up a career in science, technology and research. These kids deserve an inspiration in the sky. If we can get a couple of hundred of these kids into hard sciences, the mission would have paid for itself completely.
ISRO is already using the technology to help other countries put their equipments in space (for a lucrative fee, of course). If we continue to innovate in cost and speed, we could become a big hub for space projects. That would mean employment for 1000s of engineers and lot of foreign $$. India successfully launches Indo-French, 6 foreign satellites
India needs to prove its technological capabilities as it is building up the technology hub of the future - not just space, but everything. If you could launch a Mars mission at the cost of setting up ERP in an enterprise, you could build anything. There are both direct and intangible effects of this demonstration. This would really benefit India's tech companies. This is actually rocket science! Again more $$.
India needs to spend on research to master the science of the future. NASA had plenty of spinoffs resulting out of its space program that advanced other fields such as medicine, apparel, food and navigation.
We could have made the "Model T" of spacecrafts - inexpensive and quick. The mission was completed in just 14 months and $75 million with little prior expertise. More importantly, the mission got off the ground on the first try. China, Japan and Russia have had to abort Mars missions in the past 2 decades due to launch failures. That is an outstanding engineering feat worth of salute.
Indians have always been fascinated by space since antiquity. Our ancient scientists spent all their lives looking at space. In the recent times, scientists such as Subramaniam Chandrashekar (Nobel laureate in astrophysics), SN Bose (Boson was named after him) have electrified the field. This mission is deeply fascinating even from a cultural perspective.
Imagine the potential it has for the humanity if we could launch 100s of inexpensive missions in our search for alternative life forms and alternative planets. 4 years ago India helped confirm that there is water on moon - the confirmation of which has eluded global researchers for 5 decades. This mission sent to detect methane could be the start of a new life for Indian science. Aryabatta and Bhaskaracharya would be really proud of the lads who worked on this mission.
We need our Renaissance. We can be drooling in our pee or we can start to create something. We have to start breaking the chain of poverty by thinking outside the box. That would mean boldly assertive. People in other walks of life can surely draw inspiration from our scientists. This day is so refreshing although I have zero connection with anything ISRO did. If we can reach Mars, we can do anything - from politics, arts to science & sports.
originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: maddy21
I don't think anyone is saying they shouldn't invest in technology, I've never heard anyone say that anyway.
But when you have rivers that are full of bloated rotting corpses of the poor and destitute, maybe you should reevaluate your priorities when it comes to allocating the budget.
originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: maddy21
Um...
First of all, although I believe that every nation should aspire to space travel, and that ultimately space travel should be undertaken in the future by a single international body, beholden to no nation, creed, or culture save for that of the expansion of mankind toward the stars, I also believe in tackling issues in order.
Yes, technological progress should be the right of any society. However, that progress should be made where it is vital first, and where it would be nice second. Let us be honest for a moment here. While there are millions of starving people in a country, its government has no business launching a vast proportion of its GDP into space, rather than using that money to improve the lives of its poorest citizens, by putting infrastructural projects together to create jobs for those who have none, by opening hospitals which even the most socially and financially destitute can use, by starting social programs which bring the poorest people in those nations, up to at least the level of safety and security enjoyed by the poorest people in my country, or any other developed nation.
That money should be used to drag the society as a whole into an age of improved social responsibility, BEFORE it gets used to launch missions to space. Now, I absolutely believe that a poor nation which already looks after its people very well indeed, ought to be free to launch space missions if it wishes to. But only if it has met the basic needs of its people first. I say that not as a British person, nor as a person from a developed nation, but as a person who grew up dirt poor and got no help from my government, even in this apparently developed nation.
People come before progress in a fair society. Of course, if fairness and decency are not important to a nations leadership, which is often the case, and certainly is here in the UK, then that leadership will do what they do despite common sense dictating that they do otherwise.
originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: maddy21
Technological fishing aids are NOT a result of a space program! That is utter bunkum! The technology has been available and in use for ages, and is based on GPS data, mixed with underwater sonar capability normally speaking.
If the Indian government paid a premium (cheaper than having its own dedicated systems) to other nations to use a portion of all of their weather tracking satellites, and get the sort of data about weather and fishing via that method, then it would not need its own, and could sink that money into fixing the big, ground level issues in the nation.
Putting it bluntly, it is all very well suggesting that technological progress will bring the nation up, but it simply is not true. There is a right way to spend money, and a wrong way. Until every child in India has enough to eat, until illness relating to malnutrition has been obliterated from the society, until the same progress is made by India, that was made by, as an example, the US before it considered a space program for the first time then they should think more wisely about these things.
The number of Indians living in extreme poverty has fallen from 37% to 22% in the past seven years, according to the latest official data from the Planning Commission.
www.bbc.com...
www.dailymail.co.uk...
i.e. the majority of people living in the nation being fed, having clean water, extensive and well maintained sewerage disposal systems, healthcare of some sort, rather than just prayer and decay)
originally posted by: maddy21
mycoordinates.org...
I keep saying do some research before you sprout nonsense
And why should we depend on another nation for technological progress ? Do you know how cheap it for India to send Satellites to space . The Space program has been immensely helpful to the Indian society more than anything else . In-fact its profitable because India has been even launching satellites of even other countries .
Infact India sent a satellites to mars cheaper than the 3 lord of the rings movie combined. Essentially its easier to go to mars for India than to make a movie about it.
There is so much hot air in the above post, its really not worth a reply .. Read the opening post again , carefully this time. And try to educate yourself more about the country rather than making broad statements .. Heights of Ignorance . Ignoring the entire opening post and making such a stupid reply is brillaintly stupid
The number of Indians living in extreme poverty has fallen from 37% to 22% in the past seven years, according to the latest official data from the Planning Commission.
www.bbc.com...
www.dailymail.co.uk...
I could keep linking you more points , but whats the point . Ignorance seems to be a standard procedure on a website which claims to "deny ignorance"
i.e. the majority of people living in the nation being fed, having clean water, extensive and well maintained sewerage disposal systems, healthcare of some sort, rather than just prayer and decay)
This comment reeks of superiority complex and the typical westerner bully mentality .
I have read the opening post, and I did so before making my own. With regard to educating myself about the region, only people who do not already have general knowledge require to research such matters. As it happens, I am very well informed.
There are more than one thousand leper colonies in India, a disease which affects people predominantly who live in abject, soul crushing poverty. No country with such an excessive amount of persons affected by such a disease, a disease which only comes of people being neglected by society by and large, needs to launch a space vehicle, until it has reduced the numbers of suffers of such a disease to double digits, rather than to have more than a thousand COLONIES of lepers. Hansens disease is treatable, and until it has been all but obliterated, the expenditure on reaching for the stars cannot be seen as legitimate!
Utter hogwash. It is precisely because I care about the plight of those less fortunate than myself, that this entire thing makes me so bloody angry. Your external quote about the number of people living in extreme poverty being reduced to 22% is laughable. Do you read what you write?
22% of a country living in poverty, means that there is at least 20% percent more work to do before even THINKING of launching space missions! Utter madness! I grew up in relative poverty.
My life then was better than the lives of 22% of Indias current population. NO ONE SHOULD BE IN THAT POSITION! NO ONE! It is my understanding of social inequality which informs my opinion of this ridiculous space program, which insists to me constantly that every brass farthing spent in India, by its government, ought to be spent on medical programs, and GROUND BASED infrastructure which directly, and without any buggering about, improves the lives of those who have thus far been left behind.
Again I say, the program which allowed your fisherman friend to find fish easier might be all manner of fancy, and a massive morale boost, but it is nothing more than a showboat, because the same coverage and access could have been secured for a fraction of even the cheap launch cost of an Indian satellite launch, and until the social issues in India have been solved.
Do not DARE to tell me that in caring about the plight of people who I have more in common with than I do most of my own countrymen, I am being a bully! I am being realistic. I believe that a society should march forward at the pace of its slowest member, which means that if things are to progress, the slowest member should be supported so that they can move faster. I believe in progress from the bottom up, not the top down, because no matter what happens from the top down, the bottom gets left behind if any other system is devised and enacted.
originally posted by: blkcwbyhat
a reply to: maddy21
thats why they are 3rd world countries! Get your priorities straight,then shoot for the moon!
originally posted by: blkcwbyhat
a reply to: maddy21
thats why they are 3rd world countries! Get your priorities straight,then shoot for the moon!