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Spiritual gain, social loss?

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posted on May, 23 2014 @ 10:56 AM
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originally posted by: Stormdancer777
Spirituality should make you humble, not arrogant, it should awaken you to accepting the flaws in others not judgmental,, love, wisdom, and knowledge, are accepting others, not a superiority complex.

A truly spiritually wise person sees the beauty in others, we all have flaws and we all have beauty, everyone has something to offer, if you are paying attention.

Studies show lack of community, and relationships make you die younger,a social life and relationships are important, for mental and physical well being.

What path are you on?


That's the problem. I think I am very humble and kind, people always want to be around me, and only recently I've been getting so burnt out socially. I don't really like getting so irritable which is why I brought this to ATS.

Sorry I will try to make more sense later, gotta go!




posted on May, 23 2014 @ 11:04 AM
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@OP

No, it means you are a person. There is something called Dunbar 's number which states the frontal cortex only has limited capacity for genuine relationships with others. I believe the cap for most is 150 people. It shows humans are more tribe oriented than people think. The inclination is to form fewer, yet far more sincere, emotional bonds.

IMO there is nothing stating compassion to all is necessary for any type of spiritual enlightenment. Being more self serving, and less dependent on another's "intrinsic" rights to your benevolence can actually be a boon. Something about "coming down the mountain."
edit on 23-5-2014 by Degradation33 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 11:43 AM
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The more spiritual you become, the more isolate and introvert you will be. Thats part of 'growing up'. 99% of our society functions on unbelievable bs on a daily basis. Who wants to deal with people constantly chattering around useless things? Not my business.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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originally posted by: GoShredAK
I am becoming increasingly anti social......I attribute this to my feeling more introverted as I strive to understand my true origin and spirit.

I am getting very tired of other people and their opinions, and them trying to impose their negative energy on me.

At the end of my day I want nothing to do with anybody else unless they have something really valuable to say.

But I'm supposed to love everybody?


Well GoShred,

I can say that I experience this on an almost daily basis - I am continuously influenced by those around me; and all-too-often those influences are negative. Many times, I find myself wishing I could extract myself from a conversation due to a supreme lack of interest in its importance, or relevance to anything real.

Both of these experiences are something we must all deal with, as it is the presence of others that reminds us of, and encourages our real purpose for existence - which in my opinion is to simply learn.

We are not here to be alone, we are not here to dislike the presence of others - we are here to learn, and in your case, as is commonly mine - our learning experience is that of acceptance and allowance, it would seem.

I wouldn't fear that you're losing touch with your common man, but rather growing a closer understanding of those around you - and mankind as a whole, partially by tolerating those social interactions you are so drawn away from, but partially by realizing why you feel it is a feat of tolerance, rather than something enjoyable - as it should be.

It's all learning, in my opinion. Hope you the best.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 03:03 PM
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I am spiritually advanced enough that I have no animosity towards humans. I do find, however, and with rare exception, that I am happier when they aren't around me.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 05:09 PM
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originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: GoShredAK
have a good day at the beach
thank you!

We didn't catch anything but I found about 30 beautiful clear and amber colored agates! Real ones too, not sugar agates.......sorry is my previous response to you seemed rude, I rushed right through it.

I'm still in a rush, now we are off to a friends wedding.....kinda funny that the time I make a thread about being anti social is the same time that I'm doing a bunch of social activities......

Thanks again to everybody, I'll be back when I get home tonight and relax with ATS.......

Gotta go! My wife is yelling at me....



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 05:18 PM
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originally posted by: GoShredAK
kinda funny that the time I make a thread about being anti social is the same time that I'm doing a bunch of social activities......


Perhaps there is something more to that than just face value.

Just like the agates, gotta look a bit.. but sometimes you find beautiful things.




posted on May, 23 2014 @ 05:21 PM
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originally posted by: skunkape23
I am spiritually advanced enough that I have no animosity towards humans. I do find, however, and with rare exception, that I am happier when they aren't around me.


Well said. So much of what you encounter in the outside (social) world is just ego games.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 05:43 PM
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originally posted by: GoShredAK
I am becoming increasingly anti social......I attribute this to my feeling more introverted as I strive to understand my true origin and spirit.

I am getting very tired of other people and their opinions, and them trying to impose their negative energy on me.

At the end of my day I want nothing to do with anybody else unless they have something really valuable to say.

But I'm supposed to love everybody?


my response may be unpopular but I promise it comes from honesty

I am married...but lately I have discovered I am very much an introvert for this very reason. I prefer to spend my time in the recesses of my existence. It is nothing to be ashamed of. I spend my time with my partner but otherwise I like a good berth for myself and love to ponder who I am and what I perceive

spiritual growth is amazing and I have not regretted it for a minute



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 07:31 PM
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a reply to: GoShredAK

same here.

my contactable friends (outside) now are only my colleagues.
every working day, i have to witness their frustrations, stories, etc. like in sitcoms
and most of the times, to save energy, i simply agree with their own solutions, coz that's what they strongly believe could work and make them happier.
i find it is useless to offering others advice when they are not even motivated to change themselves, so i better spend energy somewhere else.

but imho, what you do by 'avoiding' them is act of Love,
maybe you avoid them because you want to avoid 'hurting' them with your disagreements
(I experienced few scenarios, where disagreements with friends, could break the relationships)
so nothing wrong with seclusion, i guess.

i also have no experience on this issue, so i also avoid people and go into exile most of the times, esp on weekends.

peace
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posted on May, 23 2014 @ 07:53 PM
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Most of us on ATS share an empathy with the OP'S problem since we have similar feelings, thoughts, experiences etc. Its interesting to read how different members carry the burden so to speak. Myself I have time for anyone so long as they behave reasonably towards me but I have low tolerance for all the B/S so I tend to avoid mixing generally which I guess makes me an introvert in the eyes of many when, really, I'm not at all. I have grown used to my own company out of necessity because its better than having to suffer the B/S in my face 24/7. I long for the day when I don't have to keep my distance but I doubt the day will ever come.



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 12:53 AM
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Extroversion is to work into the maze of rules, to integrate with it, to become one with it. Introversion is to stand back and observe the maze. Only then can you see how it actually is laid out.

"Sentient programs. They can move in and out of any software still hardwired to the system. That means that anyone we haven't unplugged...is potentially an agent. Inside the matrix...they are everyone...and they are no one. We have survived by hiding from them, by running from them...but they are the gatekeepers. They are guarding all the doors, they are holding all the keys, which means that sooner or later, someone is going to have to fight them. I won't lie to you, Neo. Every single man or woman who has stood their ground, everyone who has fought an agent, has died. But where they have failed, you will succeed--I've seen an agent punch through a concrete wall. Men have emptied entire clips at them and hit nothing but air. Yet their strength and their speed are still based in a world that is built on rules. Because of that...they will never be as strong or as fast as you can be."
edit on 56531Sat, 24 May 2014 00:56:55 -0500201455pAmerica/Chicago2014-05-24T00:56:55-05:0031 by introspectionist because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 01:38 AM
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Im experiencing similar, and feel the need to help people more and more and go the extra mile.

But I find that im being forced out of some groups by not participating in behavior (regular blind drunkenness)

It's isolating not playing 'ball' but as of late I've had some strange conversations with people and it's as if im being told 'do what you think is best'

I believe im bound by no law, but by a higher force, for good not evil.

Oh and btw, im not crazy



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 02:27 AM
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I have the same experience as the OP and many others on ATS. I've been thinking about it quite a lot. I by no means claim to understand it but I have my hypotheses that I work with and reshape as I go along.




Rumi has nothing but pity and disdain for those who look at the world around and within themselves and do not understand that what they are seeing is a veil over reality. The world is a dream, a prison, a trap, foam thrown up from the ocean, dust kicked up by a passing horse. But it is not what it appears to be. If everything that appears to us were just as it appears, the Prophet, who was endowed with such penetrating vision, both illuminated and illuminating, would never have cried out, "Oh Lord, show us things as they are!" Rumi draws a fundamental distinction between "form" (surat) and "meaning" (ma`na). Form is a thing's outward appearance, meaning its inward and unseen reality.

source: The Sufi Path of Love : The Spiritual Teachings of Rumi by William C. Chittick




Metaphysics Main article: Platonic realism "Platonism" is a term coined by scholars to refer to the intellectual consequences of denying, as Plato's Socrates often does, the reality of the material world. In several dialogues, most notably the Republic, Socrates inverts the common man's intuition about what is knowable and what is real. While most people take the objects of their senses to be real if anything is, Socrates is contemptuous of people who think that something has to be graspable in the hands to be real. In the Theaetetus, he says such people are "eu a-mousoi", an expression that means literally, "happily without the muses" (Theaetetus 156a). In other words, such people live without the divine inspiration that gives him, and people like him, access to higher insights about reality. Socrates's idea that reality is unavailable to those who use their senses is what puts him at odds with the common man, and with common sense. Socrates says that he who sees with his eyes is blind, and this idea is most famously captured in his allegory of the cave, and more explicitly in his description of the divided line. The allegory of the cave (begins Republic 7.514a) is a paradoxical analogy wherein Socrates argues that the invisible world is the most intelligible ("noeton") and that the visible world ("(h)oraton") is the least knowable, and the most obscure. Socrates says in the Republic that people who take the sun-lit world of the senses to be good and real are living pitifully in a den of evil and ignorance. Socrates admits that few climb out of the den, or cave of ignorance, and those who do, not only have a terrible struggle to attain the heights, but when they go back down for a visit or to help other people up, they find themselves objects of scorn and ridicule. According to Socrates, physical objects and physical events are "shadows" of their ideal or perfect forms, and exist only to the extent that they instantiate the perfect versions of themselves. Just as shadows are temporary, inconsequential epiphenomena produced by physical objects, physical objects are themselves fleeting phenomena caused by more substantial causes, the ideals of which they are mere instances. For example, Socrates thinks that perfect justice exists (although it is not clear where) and his own trial would be a cheap copy of it. The allegory of the cave (often said by scholars to represent Plato's own epistemology and metaphysics) is intimately connected to his political ideology (often said to also be Plato's own), that only people who have climbed out of the cave and cast their eyes on a vision of goodness are fit to rule. Socrates claims that the enlightened men of society must be forced from their divine contemplations and be compelled to run the city according to their lofty insights. Thus is born the idea of the "philosopher-king", the wise person who accepts the power thrust upon him by the people who are wise enough to choose a good master. This is the main thesis of Socrates in the Republic, that the most wisdom the masses can muster is the wise choice of a ruler. Theory of Forms Main article: Theory of Forms The Theory of Forms (or Theory of Ideas) typically refers to the belief that the material world as it seems to us is not the real world, but only an "image" or "copy" of the real world. In some of Plato's dialogues, this is expressed by Socrates, who spoke of forms in formulating a solution to the problem of universals. The forms, according to Socrates, are archetypes or abstract representations of the many types of things, and properties we feel and see around us, that can only be perceived by reason (Greek: λογική). (That is, they are universals.) In other words, Socrates was able to recognize two worlds: the apparent world, which constantly changes, and an unchanging and unseen world of forms, which may be the cause of what is apparent.
source: en.wikipedia.org...






When something from the total of reality comes calling we think we know what it is. But we never get the thing itself. It never actually enters the box because the senses aren't really openings. What's outside the box hits some kind of resistance, a screen, a barrier. Like an eardrum, or a retina, a tastebud, or a nerve that interprets what's outside and then gives it an identity and a meaning, according to the effect that this unknown thing might have on the box. But the interpretation that the sensor gives us is entirely limited to the way it's programmed. The program doesn't tell us what the outer objective reality actually is, it reduces it, turning it into something else according to its rules. And all of our senses run on the exact same program. So, whether your eye uses an electron telescope or the Hubble space telescope what you'll ultimately see will always be a subjective picture, determined and controlled by the program.


I thought about this when I was sitting talking to my workmates one day. I suddenly realized that what I'm hearing isn't necessarily what they intended me to hear. When I respond I respond based on how I interpreted the information. My response in turn will not be perceived the same way by the recipient as it was perceived by myself, or as it was intended to be communicated. In my head I got a picture of two overlapping circles.



How we perceive ourselves is based on the information we have received from others, which is based on how they perceived us, not how we actually are. We know ourselves from looking in mirrors only. But the mirrors are not actually mirrors, they are more like 240p recordings that have gone through a quick sloppy editing in Movie Maker.

I think that the false perception of ourselves, which is a collection of our memories and interpretations of the information we receveived from our outer world and other people about ourselves, is the ego. When it's in the context of how we perceive ourselves it's the ego. When it's in the context of how others perceive us as well it might be "the lower self". What we actually are is the higher self. What we see and know of others is their lower selves. What they actually are is their higher selves.
edit on 46531Sat, 24 May 2014 02:46:21 -0500201421pAmerica/Chicago2014-05-24T02:46:21-05:0031 by introspectionist because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 02:27 AM
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continued

When we interact with many people we build up a perceived shared reality. This is the area where several circles overlap. Actual total reality is something quite different.


When our ego grows we become more divided, more detached. Our world becomes darker and more lonely. But when this happens we begin to see more clearly that what we perceive of the outer world isn't reality. Only when we clash really hard with the system do we begin to question the nature of the system, the nature of reality.

In the world we see how we are like a virus. All our efforts, no matter how noble the intentions, only lead to a darker, more evil, more oppressive world for everyone. Why? There must be a reason. This is something I've been thinking about a lot as well.

I think that those who have "lower desires" are being manipulated, herded like sheep. This is a good thing. The desires are being channeled for the purpose of enlightenment, for the purpose of spurring the evolution of all of humanity. This is why the high Jews were behind communism and it's subtler cousin in the West today. The Jews just do the channeling, the Gentiles do the work. Communism for example, I believe that it is an ideology that makes the ego grow, i.e. it causes separation. This makes people gradually clash more and more with their outer world, makes them more and more introvert. I believe depression is a very good thing.



www.chabad.org...
edit on 11531Sat, 24 May 2014 03:11:35 -0500201435pAmerica/Chicago2014-05-24T03:11:35-05:0031 by introspectionist because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 03:38 AM
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a reply to: GoShredAK

You have probably hurt a few people if you are like me. But maybe corruption and enlightenment are two sides of the same coin? When you think about it, aren't the people that have hurt you the most really the people that have helped you the most?

edit:

If you don't view hurt and evil of all kinds in the way I'm trying to convey here, I recommend watching this video:



Then meditate in the way described in this book:

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1400922457&sr=1-1&keywords=mindful ness+in+plain+english

While meditating in that way, specifically try to bring up memories of people that have hurt you, of things that you perceive as evil and of your suffering. This can be workmates, people of the other sex that have rejected you, people you lent money that didn't pay back, politicians, the powers that be, the threat of a third world war... I think it will be quite rewarding.
edit on 16531Sat, 24 May 2014 04:16:08 -0500201408pAmerica/Chicago2014-05-24T04:16:08-05:0031 by introspectionist because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 06:10 AM
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a reply to: flice

you raise a very good point concerning your responsibility to your family. while i also have my responsibilities i am the youngest of my family and the only mystic i an thankful that i am able to isolate myself for long periods of time.to me it feels as if nothing can influence my decisions and you are in complete control. this is my last life on earth and so i will choose not to have kids at this point because i believe it will cause karma and force me to incarnate again. plus i don't like kids



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 08:56 AM
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a reply to: GoShredAK

This might help you to attract kind of people you want in life
thesecretlawofattraction1.blogspot.com...



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 11:10 AM
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Thank you again everybody for such valuable posts!

I still haven't got the chance to soak everything in, but I can't wait!

Not now though, this morning I'm evacuating my family farther north because of this thing, and it's blanket of smoke.


www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on May, 24 2014 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: GoShredAK

You can love them and still think they're a bunch of douche bags!!!
That's the great thing about yinyang spiritual balance!!!

Family and friends always have something valuable to say, because it's the time we spend with them and a chance to hear their voice!!!
So try not to become too distant!!!

People in the workplace...eh...
Go nuts with contempt, most are just botherers and possession victims anyways...
Internally you can laugh and just smile politely at the thought of them not being in full control...
May seem harsh but truly we should deny ignorance outside of ATS as well!!!

It's all part of our spiritual growth, doesn't mean we can't avoid the jerk offs in life, instead learn from them!


Peace Shred!!!
edit on 24-5-2014 by CharlieSpeirs because: Auto-Correct!!!




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