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Why are you a liberal?

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posted on May, 23 2014 @ 12:15 AM
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originally posted by: stormson

originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: Xtrozero
My top 10 views..... So my question would be: What part of my views make me run, not walk away from the liberal party.

1. I believe everyone should pull their own weight and most of their life's happiness and achievements rest in their own two hands unless they have physical/mental limitations.
2. I believe benefits outside of earned ones...military retirements, SS, Medicaid etc should be time limited.
3. I believe people have the freedom/right to fail and live a very crappy life.
3. I believe in a small Federal Government foot print and a larger State Government foot print...republic kind of thing...
4. I believe everyone should pay their fair share in taxes, and taxes should not be a burden or hindrance to achievement...
5. I believe that when seconds count the police are minutes away...
6. I believe that when charity stops at the private level, and the Government takes over with subsistence, people stop being individuals with names, a life, a personality, and become lost as numbers and statistics only.
7. I believe that abortions should be the last choice and not a choice of convenience.
8. I hate ALL lifetime politicians, and ones that basically have done nothing else in their life but school and politics.
9. I believe that not all jobs should be a single income living wage, nor should we as Americans be able to fully support ourselves singularly by default with no other requirements needed, such as skill, education, experience, talent etc.
10. I believe we are becoming a nanny state that is slowly turning everyone into apathetic underachieving slugs...


Thank you xtrozero. This is why I am a conservative.

In this thread it seems like either A) the liberals here think all these things are of liberal ideology, or B) Much of these things don't apply to conservative ideology.

Thus, my thread is made meaningless by the misinformed. We are informed. Liberalism= big government. That's why Ill vote against them. I have knowledge of the one thing that matters to me. That is, "Who represents big government?" Liberals. Ill vote against them. IM GOING TO VOTE.


whats the difference between a guy assembling a car and one assembling a burger? pay. also that conservatives think one is worth a living wage while the other isnt.

installing bolts is no different than slapping on lettuce. a 40 hr week is a 40 hour week, regardless what you do.

mowing lawns is a 12 yr olds job, yet they get paid more than fast food workers. think about how much you pay your landscaper and you will see i speak the truth.


The difference between burgers and cars is the difference in pay. Each bolt in a car is more important than any piece of desirable lettuce. Wages are based on production, not time. Without the actual products ready to buy, money has no value.

Keynesianism is based on spending, not production, like the production of real things is only a statistical correlation.

We haven't had an economy based on production since before World War One. We have had an economy based on control of society since the first entitlement program. Control of society by way of the paycheck. All of the quality of life declines began then.




posted on May, 23 2014 @ 12:23 AM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate

originally posted by: stormson

originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: Xtrozero
My top 10 views..... So my question would be: What part of my views make me run, not walk away from the liberal party.

1. I believe everyone should pull their own weight and most of their life's happiness and achievements rest in their own two hands unless they have physical/mental limitations.
2. I believe benefits outside of earned ones...military retirements, SS, Medicaid etc should be time limited.
3. I believe people have the freedom/right to fail and live a very crappy life.
3. I believe in a small Federal Government foot print and a larger State Government foot print...republic kind of thing...
4. I believe everyone should pay their fair share in taxes, and taxes should not be a burden or hindrance to achievement...
5. I believe that when seconds count the police are minutes away...
6. I believe that when charity stops at the private level, and the Government takes over with subsistence, people stop being individuals with names, a life, a personality, and become lost as numbers and statistics only.
7. I believe that abortions should be the last choice and not a choice of convenience.
8. I hate ALL lifetime politicians, and ones that basically have done nothing else in their life but school and politics.
9. I believe that not all jobs should be a single income living wage, nor should we as Americans be able to fully support ourselves singularly by default with no other requirements needed, such as skill, education, experience, talent etc.
10. I believe we are becoming a nanny state that is slowly turning everyone into apathetic underachieving slugs...


Thank you xtrozero. This is why I am a conservative.

In this thread it seems like either A) the liberals here think all these things are of liberal ideology, or B) Much of these things don't apply to conservative ideology.

Thus, my thread is made meaningless by the misinformed. We are informed. Liberalism= big government. That's why Ill vote against them. I have knowledge of the one thing that matters to me. That is, "Who represents big government?" Liberals. Ill vote against them. IM GOING TO VOTE.


whats the difference between a guy assembling a car and one assembling a burger? pay. also that conservatives think one is worth a living wage while the other isnt.

installing bolts is no different than slapping on lettuce. a 40 hr week is a 40 hour week, regardless what you do.

mowing lawns is a 12 yr olds job, yet they get paid more than fast food workers. think about how much you pay your landscaper and you will see i speak the truth.


The difference between burgers and cars is the difference in pay. Each bolt in a car is more important than any piece of desirable lettuce. Wages are based on production, not time. Without the actual products ready to buy, money has no value.

Keynesianism is based on spending, not production, like the production of real things is only a statistical correlation.

We haven't had an economy based on production since before World War One. We have had an economy based on control of society since the first entitlement program. Control of society by way of the paycheck. All of the quality of life declines began then.



burger makers make far more burgers than car makers make cars. so a burger maker should make more based on production, no?

without the product ready for purchase, the price goes up as demand goes up, so money takes on more value. thats demand side economics. go to a fancy restaurant and wait for your meal that costs far more, or go to a burger shack and get it right away for less.

actually, the middle class did great after the second ww, then stagnated with the introduction of supply-side economics.

history supports this.
edit on 23-5-2014 by stormson because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 12:33 AM
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I see liberal ideology as one that is against individual sovereignty and freedom


That's hilarious coming from people who want to force people to pray and have children against their will. But let's be real here- every political group is against some freedoms. It's just a question of which freedoms are more important to you. If you want the "freedom" to not care about society, waste lots of resources, and destroy the planet, then the GOP is for you. If you want the freedom to think, associate with different kinds of people, and be protected from large institutions then the Democratic party if for you. If you want to be a republican but not admit it, then the libertarian party is where it's at.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 12:35 AM
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a reply to: stormson

Average price of a new car $20,000
Average price of a new burger $5

The burger assembler would need to make 4000 burgers in the time the auto worker spends on making one car.

The auto workers pay reflects the amount of capitol involved in his job, his higher wage wouldn't be possible without all of the technology he uses to finish his product.

All of the money we lose to inflation should be going to improve the quantity and quality of the capitol in our economy, by way of saving and investments.

In a free market economy with maxed out, demand assigned capitol, the work week would be as short as you wanted it to be.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 12:37 AM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

"pull their own weight" "achievements" "earned" "hindrance to achievement" "takes over with subsistence" "not all jobs should be a single income living wage" "underachieving slugs"

Seven of your eleven points could basically be summed up as a view that people at the bottom of the economic scale are underachieving "takers" living off other people's taxes. #1, #2, #3 (first one), #4, #6, #9, #10

I'd say that roughly 20% American workers right now are either unemployed or "underemployed" and that's probably a conservative estimate. There are a finite number of jobs to fill at any given moment. Increasingly, newly created jobs are low wage and less than full-time — there are less "good jobs" year after year. Recent job growth in particular has been in low wage and often part-time professions. Simply put, year inflation-adjusted median income peaked in 1999 because the middle class has been shrinking (and the bottom growing).

Income inequality is at an all time high.


source

What's interesting is to match that graph up with CEO pay:


source


Measured with options granted, CEOs earned 18.3 times more than typical workers in 1965 and 26.5 times more in 1978; the ratio grew to 136.8-to-1 in 1995 and peaked at 411.3-to-1 in 2000. In 2012, CEO pay was 202.3 times more than typical worker pay, far higher than it was in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, or 1990s.

source

It's easy to say "oh, if you don't like your life, change it!" but what this type of statement doesn't take into account is that's there's only so much room on each rung of the ladder so generally speaking, as a person moves up the ladder, he's displacing a person who moves down the ladder.
edit on 2014-5-23 by theantediluvian because: wrong graph




posted on May, 23 2014 @ 12:45 AM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate
a reply to: stormson

Average price of a new car $20,000
Average price of a new burger $5

The burger assembler would need to make 4000 burgers in the time the auto worker spends on making one car.

The auto workers pay reflects the amount of capitol involved in his job, his higher wage wouldn't be possible without all of the technology he uses to finish his product.

All of the money we lose to inflation should be going to improve the quantity and quality of the capitol in our economy, by way of saving and investments.

In a free market economy with maxed out, demand assigned capitol, the work week would be as short as you wanted it to be.



ford made 146 billion
mcdonalds made over 200 billion.

you were saying?



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 12:48 AM
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a reply to: smithjustinb

S&F for the thread, and hope you have your raincoat on! I suspect you might need it.

Everything you said is accurate as far as the ideology of the Left is concerned.
edit on 23-5-2014 by LadyGreenEyes because: typo



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 12:50 AM
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I am labeled a liberal because most of my beliefs line up with liberals.

Contrary to what you say, I don't "subscribe" to liberalism...I subscribe to my own beliefs and it just so happens that most the people that I agree with my beliefs fall in the liberal camp.

Here is what you have to understand, just because I'm labeled a "liberal" doesn't mean I'm not an individual as well. I'm a liberal, but I'm against abortion. I'm a liberal but I don't think the best way to deal with climate change is carbon credits.

So, I am labeled a liberal because.



  • I think Everyone should have healthcare
  • I think that everyone should be able to live off the wages they earn if they are working full time
  • I think we have too many guns in this county and not enough regulations around them
  • I think taxes are necessary so we can live in a nice community with roads, police officers, and fire fighters
  • I think investing as a community in children's education benefits all of us
  • I think that any person who wants to come to this country and work hard should be allowed to
  • I think that people are more important than corporations
  • I think employee wages should be reflective of their companies profits
  • I think that we spend too much money on our military
  • I think Muslims are people just like me and you and they aren't the enemy
  • I think that we shouldn't be afraid of people who are different than us
  • I think that someone's sexual preference is really non of mine, nor governments, business
  • I think the death penalty is an outdated concept
  • I don't think taxes are evil


Just a small sample of why I'm labeled "liberal".

And no, I'm not worried about my "freedoms" being taken from me...because nothing I believe in removes freedoms from anyone.

I'm not worried about a revolution, because as a whole, people are too lazy in this country for a revolution.

I'm fine with my label...I don't let it define me though. I know others will try to define me by the label others have given me, but that is a problem with themselves...not my problem.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 12:52 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

It's easy to say "oh, if you don't like your life, change it!" but what this type of statement doesn't take into account is that's there's only so much room on each rung of the ladder so generally speaking, as a person moves up the ladder, he's displacing a person who moves down the ladder.


The liberals made the ladder. A natural economy would be a wide open field. There is a law or regulation hindering any economic activity, in the name of redistribution by the experts.

Why can't you give taxi rides for money when you feel like it? Why can't you sell your neighbor extra peak power from your windmill? Why can't you sell a few extra sandwiches at work?



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 12:53 AM
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originally posted by: CB328



I see liberal ideology as one that is against individual sovereignty and freedom


That's hilarious coming from people who want to force people to pray


No one is forcing anyone to pray. Allowing people to pray, yes, but not forcing.


and have children against their will.


i swear you liberals don't hear yourselves sometimes.


If you want the "freedom" to not care about society,


We care about society. We care about the constitution- life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We care about unborn children too. You think we don't care about the poor, do you? Maybe we do care, we just choose not to support them through their laziness. I would like to see them not poor, but they should make their way on their own like everyone else. "If you give a man a fish he will be full for a day, but if you teach a man to fish, he will never go hungry again". That's what I believe. The poor may be poor, but they're not always incapable. I only support welfare for those who are incapable- the disabled. I also support education. We care.


waste lots of resources
,

Waste lots of resources? What's wasted? I dont think we are "wasting" lots of resources.


If you want the freedom to think


Like how the Obama administration was going to send federal agents to occupy newsrooms for "monitoring". Or like how the IRS under the Obama administration targeted people for their ideology to enforce their own ideology?


associate with different kinds of people,


Where do republicans oppose "associating with different kinds of people"?


and be protected from large institutions


What? Like the government itself?



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 12:54 AM
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originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
a reply to: smithjustinb
Let's try this, if you''re really interested:

“I’m proud to say I’m a liberal”: How conservatives vulgarized a term — and why the left must reclaim it FDR and JFK proudly called themselves "liberal" -- but then the right made it a slur. Why it must be embraced again

Salon

And just because I like props (but bear in mind I am a Canadian liberal)...



I just saw this on yahoo answers. Someone made my reply for me. Voted "Best Answer". Pretty much refutes every one of these claimed "accomplishments" and either shows that they are outright untrue or it exposes their weaknesses.


Let me start by making a few points about what you have written.
First, Social Security is the biggest ponzi scheme in the world. In less than 10 years, there will be 70 million baby-boomers that start collecting Social Security. Compare that with the fact that there will only be 125 million people in the workforce and we are looking at an enormous problem.
www.npg.org...

Second, Nasa was started under Eisenhower, who was a Republican.
en.wikipedia.org...

Medicare and Medicaid are all but broke, and are two of the entitlement programs that even Obama says are bankrupting the country.
www.washingtonpost.com...

The Clean Water Act was passed by Nixon (a Republican) in 1972.
en.wikipedia.org...

Anti-discrimination laws have been passed since 1871, and have been passed and enforced by both Republicans and Democrats.
en.wikipedia.org...
Furthermore most people agree that anti-discrimination laws like Affirmative Action do more to promote racism than nullify it.

The FDIC is part of the reason that the economy is in shambles right now- not to mention that the bailouts are happening because the FDIC is broke. If there were no Federal Reserve, there would be no need for an FDIC. Both are monstrosities of Economics.

Unemployment insurance is another scam by liberals that takes a fractional problem and turns it into a national problem. This is not an achievement. It is a scam.

And you are right that FDR helped win WWII, along with the help of Winston Churchill, who was a Conservative. Not to mention that FDR's isolationist stance let Germany take control of most of Europe before deciding to help...


OK now for Republican Achievements:
-I guess I can steal Nasa from you because it was created by Republicans.
-I guess I can steal the Clean Water Act from you because it was created by Republicans.
-Republicans freed the slaves.
-Republicans defeated the Soviets in the Cold War.
-Republicans ended Vietnam, which was started by Democrats.
-The Republicans in Congress went on to pass the nation’s first ever Civil Rights Act and I have a source to back it up.
www.politicalbase.com...
-Republicans passed the Constitutional Amendment that allowed Blacks to vote.
-Republicans passed the Constitutional Amendment that allowed women to vote.
-Republicans created the Tuskegee Institute
-Republicans repealed FDR's orders that Japanese Americans could be held, without habeas corpus, in internment camps


You want to give me thumbs down? Why don't you give me a source that refutes what I have written.
You want to rant and rave about how bad conservatives are and you will NEVER accept FACTS when they are right in your face.

For the record, I am NOT EVEN A REPUBLICAN. You need to stop spreading polarization and lies just because you can't accept facts that disprove the church of liberalism.

You are no different than a Creationist!


There is a flaw in your response....his original graphic talked about "Liberals"...your response talked about "Republicans".

Everything in your response that you said "Republicans" did was before the parties demographics had a major shift and where Republicans were of a more liberal mindset and Democrats were more conservative.

You can not rightly state that "Conservatives" had those accomplishments. You are attempting to mislead people by substituting the word "Republicans" for "Conservatives"...those words may equate today, but they didn't in the past.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 01:04 AM
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a reply to: stormson

Ford employs 213,000

McDonalds employs 1,800,000

Arithmetic solves this one. Maybe a little Al Gebra (from the Arabic for "connecting")


edit on 23-5-2014 by Semicollegiate because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 01:07 AM
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Governments .. leaders... political parties are for fools and idiots who cant think for themselves and lack the intestinal fortitude to be responsible for their actions as human beings ..
Neither a need nor use for any of them ..



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 01:37 AM
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a reply to: smithjustinb




All I know is, if I vote conservative, there is a much greater chance that my values will be fought for than if I vote liberal. If I vote liberal, there's a much greater chance that my freedoms will be infringed than if I vote conservative.

So, I just want to know why do people vote for people that are pretty much guaranteeing that they will take your freedoms away?


Your quote, but I added the bold.

If you vote liberal, there's a much greater chance that YOUR freedoms (I'll site what you listed above - choosing your own healthcare/opting out of healthcare, and your guns, as well as many other rights and wants) will be altered or infringed upon.

You seem to think that your freedoms are the only freedoms. Or at least the most important freedoms.

What you don't seem to be considering is that if I vote conservative, MY freedoms might be infringed upon. I will be told that I cannot have an abortion if I deem it necessary. I will be told that I cannot marry who I want to. In regards to health insurance, I could be forced to pay higher premiums for my health plan, simply because I'm a woman. What about my freedom of religion...because it seems from conservative arguments that only the "right" religion gets to enjoy their freedom. The rest have to fight tooth and nail to get a monument erected, or to say "Happy Holidays!" otherwise they are perpetrating a "war on Christianity".

Are my freedoms worth less than yours?


What's hilarious is while I am deemed a liberal by those with a more conservative nature simply for certain views I hold, I agree with most of the beliefs in your avatar's list.

I agree with personal responsibility. - You know, like, getting an abortion if I do not think I can, or would not like to bring a child into this world.

I would LOVE low taxes - although I would rather settle for fair taxes. This is the one belief we don't necessarily see eye to eye on. I would pay higher taxes for better education, public infrastructure and healthcare.

And I would be thrilled if we had a more limited government. ...I'd love to limit them from dictating what Adam and Steve can do with their lives.

Now, I don't label myself a liberal..or anything, but unfortunately, despite our similarities, I would choose to call myself "liberal" over "conservative" any day of the week.
edit on 23-5-2014 by jacktorrance because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 01:47 AM
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originally posted by: Semicollegiate
a reply to: theantediluvian

It's easy to say "oh, if you don't like your life, change it!" but what this type of statement doesn't take into account is that's there's only so much room on each rung of the ladder so generally speaking, as a person moves up the ladder, he's displacing a person who moves down the ladder.


The liberals made the ladder. A natural economy would be a wide open field. There is a law or regulation hindering any economic activity, in the name of redistribution by the experts.

Why can't you give taxi rides for money when you feel like it? Why can't you sell your neighbor extra peak power from your windmill? Why can't you sell a few extra sandwiches at work?

You'll have to disambiguate "natural economy" for me a bit as it's been used by different people to mean completely different things. Are you insinuating that regulation and licensing were created by "liberals?" It also seems to me that you're conflating natural law and economy to describe something that has never existed.


Why can't you give taxi rides for money when you feel like it?

Regulating taxis is a "liberal" creation?


In 1635 the Hackney Carriage Act was passed by Parliament to legalise horse-drawn carriages for hire. Coaches were hired out by innkeepers to merchants and visitors. A further "Ordinance for the Regulation of Hackney-Coachmen in London and the places adjacent" was approved by Parliament in 1654[4] and the first hackney-carriage licences were issued in 1662.

source

In theory, I agree with your sentiment but in practice, has deregulating taxis ever produced favorable results?


Why can't you sell your neighbor extra peak power from your windmill?

Personally, I don't care if people kill themselves or destroy their own property. Hell, I don't care if people manufacture and smoke meth out in the middle of nowhere either. The problem I, and probably most people, would have is if the activity resulted in something like burning down the neighborhood. Or maybe we take that a step further, what if one of the two persons involved burned down his own home and killed his children?


Why can't you sell a few extra sandwiches at work?


I've got nothing here. I've bartered sandwiches at work and the sandwich police didn't show up to arrest me. This would be a lot different than something like being a sandwich vendor. I've known a guy who owned and operated a food truck and aside from perhaps periodic health department inspections, I don't believe he was particularly regulated.

I'm guessing these were more or less rhetorical questions to illustrate what one might expect in a "natural economy" and the my goal in addressing them was to (hopefully) make the case that not all regulations are superfluous (or created by "liberals").
edit on 2014-5-23 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 01:57 AM
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a reply to: smithjustinb




Just look at Obama. What a failure. I want to vote as far away from him as possible. I know that.


You do realize that a large portion of the people that voted for Obama the first time felt that EXACT sentiment towards G.W. Bush.

Like...word for word.

"I know for a fact we don't need 8 more years of the same crap we've been going through these past 8. I know Bush's political party. That's the one NOT going to vote for. Im going to vote for whoever is least likely to not give us 8 more years of Bush-like policies."

So...you see how that worked out. And you're still willing to play that game, huh? ...Good luck with that.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 02:05 AM
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originally posted by: kruphix


I think Everyone should have healthcare


I think everyone should be free to choose if they want to pay for health care. I don't want it.


I think that everyone should be able to live off the wages they earn if they are working full time


I think everyone should be able to live off the wages they earn, but not off the wages I earn. Increasing minimum wage will only cause inflation. Its not going to make the cost of living go down. Sorry, but its going to take more than a pen, a paper, and printed money to solve that issue.


I think we have too many guns in this county and not enough regulations around them


Regulations like what? Murder? Strong armed robbery? I'd hate to be caught using a gun for anything it shouldn't be used for. More than that, I'd hate to be caught without one up against some criminal who wouldn't abide by any gun law and would therefore have a gun and me not. Gun control doesn't do anything except take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens (the people that you need to have a gun to protect you from those who will use guns against you(criminals)).

Liberal legislation seems to believe that it can fix the world's problem with a pen and a paper. Conservatives are smarter than that.


I think taxes are necessary so we can live in a nice community with roads, police officers, and fire fighters


I agree. I don't agree with the 25% of taxpayer money in 2013 being spent towards medical care (more than spent in national defense). Nor do I agree with the 19% of American tax dollars being spent on various assistance programs. The 2% spent on law enforcement, I could live with.


I think investing as a community in children's education benefits all of us


Republicans are concerned with this issue as well.


I think that any person who wants to come to this country and work hard should be allowed to


Unfortunately, not everyone that comes to this country wants to work hard. There needs to be a system in place that tries to determine why people want to come to this country and this system needs to be the only way to get in. There's no point in having borders if you don't enforce them.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 02:26 AM
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originally posted by: jacktorrance
a reply to: smithjustinb

I agree with personal responsibility. - You know, like, getting an abortion if I do not think I can, or would not like to bring a child into this world.


No. That's called, "personal irresponsibility". Obviously.


I would LOVE low taxes - although I would rather settle for fair taxes. This is the one belief we don't necessarily see eye to eye on. I would pay higher taxes for better education, public infrastructure and healthcare.


Obamacare is not the way to go about health care reform. We can do better. Education and infrastructure are pale in comparison to how much we spend on health care in taxes. Its ridiculous.


And I would be thrilled if we had a more limited government. ...I'd love to limit them from dictating what Adam and Steve can do with their lives.


And I would love to be able to choose whether or not to pay for health insurance. I'd love to be able to defend myself from a totalitarian regime with a well regulated militia. I'd love to not have to pay 18% to people who are abusing the welfare system. That includes adam and steve. Id love to not have to bend at the knee to everyone who might be offended by my beliefs.



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 02:30 AM
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originally posted by: Expat888
Governments... are for fools and idiots who cant think for themselves and lack the intestinal fortitude to be responsible for their actions as human beings ..
Neither a need nor use for any of them ..


The only country I can think of (off the top of my head) that doesn't have a government is Somalia. If you have the "intestinal fortitude", maybe you should move there since you don't have a need or use for a government. You could become a pirate. Or maybe you like the privilege of organized society a little more than that prospect?
edit on 23-5-2014 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2014 @ 02:57 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

I meant the Natural Economy in a somewhat poetic way. I didn't know it had an official definition outside of biology. According to Wikipedia Natural Economy has a definition of barter, contract and traditional subsidies. I meant a money economy with a minimum of authoritarian coercion. The idea being that people would behave in the way they thought to be most able to achieve their ends.

Regulations are indispensable to the liberal. How else can behavior be controlled (presumably for our own good) and money to run the government (which produces no wealth) be collected? If regulations didn't exist liberals would have to invent them.

I don't care if folks want to assemble somewhere and make a socialist town or state. Some people would actually be happier there. Why couldn't every town or village have its own philosophy of life and politics? Enforcing Totalitarian government on everyone is the logical conclusion of our present course, however. And that course is held by the liberals.

Accidents happen. Should all bathtubs and ladders, let alone cars, be banned?

I think behavior in general would be more agreeable because everyone would be wealthier, in a free market economy. The influence of the free market original liberals allowed products to be sold for money, breaking the feudalist control of economic behavior. The wealth we have now, the wide range of choices of restaurant cuisines and groceries, hobbies and recreational equipment, climate controlled homes, fast transportation and what ever -- are the lingering effects of the industrial revolution. The industrial revolution was the result of the action of the enlightenment philosophers, the liberals. The world could have continued in the industrial revolution forever if not for the collectivist (pseudo-liberal) con. If we were still in the industrial revolution-- cars would be solar/ electric or better, houses would last for centuries, and many things would be as cheap as drinking fountain water.



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