Why are you a liberal?

Just ridiculous. Liberal citizens don't want bigger government. Ask any. Conservative citizens don't want bigger government. Ask any. The only people who want bigger government are those in power, and that includes both the democrats you despise and the Republicans you vote for. You, my friend, have been tricked, like so many on both sides, to vote against your own best interest. To happily put your own neck in a collar and ask them to lock it for you, and you do it with a smile, thanking them for the privilege. Congratulations, you are exactly what both groups want you to be, and you praise them for it.

a reply to: Semicollegiate

How many of the nays were from Southern Democrats? Hardly a progressive bunch even into the Reagan years ("Reagan Democrats").

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 7–87 (7–93%)
Southern Republicans: 0–10 (0–100%)
Northern Democrats: 145–9 (94–6%)
Northern Republicans: 138–24 (85–15%)

The Senate version:

Southern Democrats: 1–20 (5–95%) (only Ralph Yarborough of Texas voted in favor)
Southern Republicans: 0–1 (0–100%) (John Tower of Texas)
Northern Democrats: 45–1 (98–2%) (only Robert Byrd of West Virginia voted against)
Northern Republicans: 27–5 (84–16%)

a reply to: stormson

Thank you for your reply.

originally posted by: smithjustinb
a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

famguardian.org...

Read if you dare.

If I dare.......lol. Well, I read it. Thanks for wasting several minutes of my life reading that, though my eyeballs got a great workout from rolling so much. They feel a little sore now.

What I read are 60 proofs that whoever wrote that crap is incredibly ignorant of those they hate. Facts, as well as sources, proof, and reasoning to back them up, are completely lacking from that article. Did they hurt their leg from so much knee jerking?

I've seen liberals on here provide better quality mud to sling at conservatives. Perhaps because their "facts", while often exaggerated or inflated, tend to, more often than not, have some basis in objective reality.

The liberals are leading the way to national bankruptcy, buying votes all the way. The liberal system would have worked in the Soviet Union, if the liberal system was sustainable.

The Republicans soak up the big government income and have become the democrats of a generation ago. The Republican Party has never reduced the size of government. The Republican Party is de facto socialist.

Liberals think that granted rights are the same as exercised rights. The Bill of Rights can't stop the government, it can only warn you that big government is moving in.

a reply to: interupt42

Exactly. I was just pointing out that Obama has repeatedly said that the AUMF (2001) should be repealed and at the same time, his administration cites it as the basis for the authority for everything from NSA surveillance to rendition just as Bush did. Meanwhile, the GOP feigns all sorts of outrage but kills an amendment in the House to sunset the f'n AUMF!

NDAA Passes House, Important Amendments Don't

originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Perhaps because their "facts", while often exaggerated or inflated, tend to, more often than not, have some basis in objective reality.

So do the statements from that link. Just because the links weren't provided doesn't make the statements not true.

My top 10 views..... So my question would be: What part of my views make me run, not walk away from the liberal party.

1. I believe everyone should pull their own weight and most of their life's happiness and achievements rest in their own two hands unless they have physical/mental limitations.
2. I believe benefits outside of earned ones...military retirements, SS, Medicaid etc should be time limited.
3. I believe people have the freedom/right to fail and live a very crappy life.
3. I believe in a small Federal Government foot print and a larger State Government foot print...republic kind of thing...
4. I believe everyone should pay their fair share in taxes, and taxes should not be a burden or hindrance to achievement...
5. I believe that when seconds count the police are minutes away...
6. I believe that when charity stops at the private level, and the Government takes over with subsistence, people stop being individuals with names, a life, a personality, and become lost as numbers and statistics only.
7. I believe that abortions should be the last choice and not a choice of convenience.
8. I hate ALL lifetime politicians, and ones that basically have done nothing else in their life but school and politics.
9. I believe that not all jobs should be a single income living wage, nor should we as Americans be able to fully support ourselves singularly by default with no other requirements needed, such as skill, education, experience, talent etc.
10. I believe we are becoming a nanny state that is slowly turning everyone into apathetic underachieving slugs...

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Semicollegiate

How many of the nays were from Southern Democrats? Hardly a progressive bunch even into the Reagan years ("Reagan Democrats").

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 7–87 (7–93%)
Southern Republicans: 0–10 (0–100%)
Northern Democrats: 145–9 (94–6%)
Northern Republicans: 138–24 (85–15%)

The Senate version:

Southern Democrats: 1–20 (5–95%) (only Ralph Yarborough of Texas voted in favor)
Southern Republicans: 0–1 (0–100%) (John Tower of Texas)
Northern Democrats: 45–1 (98–2%) (only Robert Byrd of West Virginia voted against)
Northern Republicans: 27–5 (84–16%)

I don't disagree, but 80% yeah by the Republicans is not "fighting against it". That picture is an insulting, demagogic lie.

Like the implication that a Liberal is from classical liberalism. A creed founded on a falsehood.

I hate when people tell me I'm limiting myself by choosing a political party. They think I am a zombie who doesn't think for myself. Usually, they call themselves "independent". But that's not me. I am a conservative because I arrived at my beliefs and then found out that a label existed which described them exactly as they are. No one is telling me how to think. I think for myself, and my thoughts just so happen to align with the conservative values. Check out my avatar. That's me. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: smithjustinb

When I said party I meant a defined group of people, not necessarily political. I'm not infringing your right to choose whatever you wish.

I in no way labelled you as a zombie, I merely gave my perspective on what labels do. Which is, they invariably limit a thing to a willfully fixed perspective. Labels both expand and limit thought and perspective. When you choose an unchanging perspective you confine your reality to what it currently is, which for most means an uncomfortable environment and a weird feeling about our neighbours.

I hope you would agree that not you or I could possibly know for certainty that everything we believe is absolutely correct. I don't begrudge your beliefs or perspective, but they are like mine; malleable and subject to change based on truths revealed by the perspective of others. If not, you risk fanaticism which has proven itself as a flawed perspective with the exception of survival mode. I have no wish to argue with you, only discuss perspectives as your post has implied.

I believe in your convictions as strongly as I as believe in mine. I hold them both to be correct even though they may be different, for they exist in a realm of inalienable rights of being. Rights of being that must be respected and honoured for they are the truth of what we are. If we all understood that and worked towards understanding and a broader perspective, then the world would grow instead of fight with itself. It's unfortunate our culture is one of fear and secrecy instead.

Obamacare. (takes away freedom to choose to get health coverage).

Obamacare is a flawed endeavour brought on by the admirable goal for a better common wealth. It's been flawed from the start because it has been stifled by government, corrupted by the common sector, influence by uninformed politics and ardent perspectives. It's a good idea in a wannabe perfect world, but we live in an untrustworthy world and suffer the symptoms of ailing system.

Clear flaws were made along the way when building Obamacare, they cow towed to manipulated and influenced popular opinion, not informed public opinion. If the philosophy and history behind public health was truly brought to the culture and the pitfalls and benefits were mapped out well ahead of action and it was invested in, it would have helped many and inevitably all Americans thus the world. But instead the investment was in secrecy and war. A public choice. Unfortunately, politicians are corrupt, law is ruled by corporate interests, and politics is tainted by an American Idol type popularity rating and a population left impotent by way of education, as opposed to informed choice and populace input. The system is flawed.

I don't see that having an adequate label, other than accurate.

Gun control. (if they had accomplished it would have taken away our ability to enforce our constitutional rights) - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

This one is touchy, both sides of this have strong correct positions. Merging the perspective again boils down to the untrustworthy nature of the world we're presented with. And again it is heavily influence by a corrupt society.

There should be adequate safeguards for some restricting access to lethal weaponry, this just makes sense, the question is who makes the determinations, who labels, who regulates? Are they trustworthy for the task? With the existence of an ardent perspective on the subject, we can say they are not or it wouldn't be an issue.

I understand the need for proportional defenses in this reality, it's populated by untrustworthy fellows and I should have the right to hold the power over another man's life because my life is in equal risk as a matter of culture. That right must not be restricted without warrant because survival is the base of life.

But I also understand the requirement to regulate and restrict that right from unworthy/chaotically driving individuals. Should those who have proven their nature in the past, displayed acts of injustices against the rest of society, not be limited in their lethality to the rest? That's an argument about who becomes the judge, and by what law do they rule. Again an issue of trust and corruption when attempting to resolve.

Those are both difficult things to resolve, but is it really something your great nation couldn't figure out given the proper resource allocation, education, and is unmolested by the interests of corporate economy? Would education and health not be just as good a driver of your economy as war and secrecy is?

This, to me, is neither a liberal or conservative view. Would you label it ether way? And does labeling it prevent further contemplation? Can you see how a strong label can paint you into a corner and direct your vision to distractions? Make you think about explaining your stance instead of seeking truth and clarity?

The symptom isn't the issue, it's the distraction while the disease runs rampant.

Why would that be interesting?

Just found it interesting, for the moment it's much more an American divide than Canadian.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
My top 10 views..... So my question would be: What part of my views make me run, not walk away from the liberal party.

1. I believe everyone should pull their own weight and most of their life's happiness and achievements rest in their own two hands unless they have physical/mental limitations.
2. I believe benefits outside of earned ones...military retirements, SS, Medicaid etc should be time limited.
3. I believe people have the freedom/right to fail and live a very crappy life.
3. I believe in a small Federal Government foot print and a larger State Government foot print...republic kind of thing...
4. I believe everyone should pay their fair share in taxes, and taxes should not be a burden or hindrance to achievement...
5. I believe that when seconds count the police are minutes away...
6. I believe that when charity stops at the private level, and the Government takes over with subsistence, people stop being individuals with names, a life, a personality, and become lost as numbers and statistics only.
7. I believe that abortions should be the last choice and not a choice of convenience.
8. I hate ALL lifetime politicians, and ones that basically have done nothing else in their life but school and politics.
9. I believe that not all jobs should be a single income living wage, nor should we as Americans be able to fully support ourselves singularly by default with no other requirements needed, such as skill, education, experience, talent etc.
10. I believe we are becoming a nanny state that is slowly turning everyone into apathetic underachieving slugs...

Thank you xtrozero. This is why I am a conservative.

In this thread it seems like either A) the liberals here think all these things are of liberal ideology, or B) Much of these things don't apply to conservative ideology.

Thus, my thread is made meaningless by the misinformed. We are informed. Liberalism= big government. That's why Ill vote against them. I have knowledge of the one thing that matters to me. That is, "Who represents big government?" Liberals. Ill vote against them. IM GOING TO VOTE.

originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: Xtrozero
My top 10 views..... So my question would be: What part of my views make me run, not walk away from the liberal party.

1. I believe everyone should pull their own weight and most of their life's happiness and achievements rest in their own two hands unless they have physical/mental limitations.
2. I believe benefits outside of earned ones...military retirements, SS, Medicaid etc should be time limited.
3. I believe people have the freedom/right to fail and live a very crappy life.
3. I believe in a small Federal Government foot print and a larger State Government foot print...republic kind of thing...
4. I believe everyone should pay their fair share in taxes, and taxes should not be a burden or hindrance to achievement...
5. I believe that when seconds count the police are minutes away...
6. I believe that when charity stops at the private level, and the Government takes over with subsistence, people stop being individuals with names, a life, a personality, and become lost as numbers and statistics only.
7. I believe that abortions should be the last choice and not a choice of convenience.
8. I hate ALL lifetime politicians, and ones that basically have done nothing else in their life but school and politics.
9. I believe that not all jobs should be a single income living wage, nor should we as Americans be able to fully support ourselves singularly by default with no other requirements needed, such as skill, education, experience, talent etc.
10. I believe we are becoming a nanny state that is slowly turning everyone into apathetic underachieving slugs...

Thank you xtrozero. This is why I am a conservative.

In this thread it seems like either A) the liberals here think all these things are of liberal ideology, or B) Much of these things don't apply to conservative ideology.

Thus, my thread is made meaningless by the misinformed. We are informed. Liberalism= big government. That's why Ill vote against them. I have knowledge of the one thing that matters to me. That is, "Who represents big government?" Liberals. Ill vote against them. IM GOING TO VOTE.

whats the difference between a guy assembling a car and one assembling a burger? pay. also that conservatives think one is worth a living wage while the other isnt.

installing bolts is no different than slapping on lettuce. a 40 hr week is a 40 hour week, regardless what you do.

mowing lawns is a 12 yr olds job, yet they get paid more than fast food workers. think about how much you pay your landscaper and you will see i speak the truth.

originally posted by: smithjustinb


So do the statements from that link. Just because the links weren't provided doesn't make the statements not true.

No, the statements from your link are all opinion. And opinions formed from ignorance, fear, and prejudice.

Calling liberals "anti-God" would be false as a fact, since there are many liberals who believe in God, and use God to justify their opinions. It would be an opinion.

Calling feminists man-hating lesbians is also an opinion, given that there are many schools of feminism, as well as feminists who are married or heterosexual.

Claiming liberals are out to destroy the U.S. is ignorant opinion at best, since many are working towards goals they believe will fix America's problems.

Just because you believe something does not make it a fact. Just because you perceive something does not make it a fact.

All you have given me is a list of 60 opinions from someone who is far right and hates an ideology they really don't seem to know anything about, let alone understand.

a reply to: smithjustinb

Good topic here and good replies by you

@The "Libs"....

So far I've spotted no less than 6 truth "mis-fires" and at least a dozen deflections as usual.

I won't correct them (some already have been) because it's too far off topic. But good try anyway.

The Liberals have exposed themselves again *Thank You*

Like fish out of the frying pan and into the fire

*** ScoreCard ***

Liberals -7

Conservatives +5

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: smithjustinb

Good topic here and good replies by you

@The "Libs"....

So far I've spotted no less than 6 truth "mis-fires" and at least a dozen deflections as usual.

I won't correct them (some already have been) because it's too far off topic. But good try anyway.

The Liberals have exposed themselves again

*Thank You*

Like fish out of the frying pan and into the fire

*** ScoreCard ***

Liberals -7

Conservatives +5

ive read every post and i neither know what youre referring too, nor how your point system works. what deflections, and what "mis-fires"?

what about all the post the show how conservatives are b.s.?

a reply to: charles1952

Charles - just for you.

a reply to: smithjustinb

The Republicans had their chance to be conservative in 1994. The cold war was over. The stock market was booming. The United States had no enemies of comparable size and power.

And the only thing the Republicans did was impeach President Clinton.

The Republicans did not do anything the Republicans claim to stand for. No reduction of government size or power.

The only way to vote now is with your time and donations. Education is the last stand before totalitarian zombieland.

a reply to: smithjustinb

I have knowledge of the one thing that matters to me. That is, "Who represents big government?" Liberals. Ill vote against them. IM GOING TO VOTE.

So can you explain how the republicans didn't represent big government when :

1. The GOP picked its front runner to be a guy responsible for implementing a socialized healthcare system.


2. Choose to Pick the winners and losers in the market.
[Bush started the Bailouts, Christy blocking the free market and not allow car manufactures to sell directly to the consumer]

3. Took away individual rights and state rights?
[Bush with the patriot act blew that door wide open, Rubio voting to not allow States to choose if they can disclose GMO products]

4. Used tax payers money to Bailout private corporations
[Bush started the bailouts]

5. Un-regulate industries?
[When was the last time that Republicans unregulated anything including the OIL companies?]

6. increase the size of gov't?
[Bush started Home land security ]


Do you think that in DC they care more about political ideals than MONEY?

if conservative economics actually worked, why is our middle class declining?

why is it that our rich have lower taxes than any other country, while our middle class shrinks?

why has the pay for ceos gone up over 300% while middle class pay been stagnant?

why does every other country that taxes their rich more have a middle class thats thriving?

a reply to: FyreByrd

Dear FyreByrd,

Thank you, and thank you again. That is an example of the polarization I mentioned, and I'm glad you put it up. Is it too much to hope that the posters will help me identify a "Grand Unified Principle" that tends to separate those two groups?

I really don't much care if the Republicans or Democrats continually live up to their beliefs, especially in a town driven by bargaining and compromise. Besides, bills usually have more than one issue so that it's hard to tell what anyone was voting for or against.

Have you got a clue as to what the "GUP" might be?

With respect,
Charles1952