Restaurant with 'No Weapons, No Concealed Firearms' Sign Robbed at Gunpoint

a reply to: TKDRL

eh; it's fun, probably because there seems to be some crossover between this site and 4chan, or reddit, where its a tactic used to dismiss arguements associated with your opponent.

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit
Click the linky. DO IT.

(Source above)

Do I really need to elaborate? This is what happens. I am confidant you will not see CNN, MSNBC or HuffPo running this story.

Uh, how do we know brietbart/gunsnfreedom didn't make this up wholesale?
How this been independently verified by a sane (ie, one not rabidly progun) source?

originally posted by: Manitou
Uh, how do we know brietbart/gunsnfreedom didn't make this up wholesale?
How this been independently verified by a sane (ie, one not rabidly progun) source?

Did you even bother searching? Media Matters covered the same story three days ago.

Another pro-gun hero fantasy thread.

Seriously though, the whole point of slowly reducing the amount of guns available and extant in society is that it will gradually reduce gun violence and crimes. Obviously if only small zones like a store are "gun-free" then that wouldn't occur. The whole point is to have a system wide policy to severely curtail gun availability, which yes eventually impacts the black market availability too.

Look at the gun crime stats in the UK and many countries that have done exactly that. Far lower percentages, contrary to the NRA-types on here who most likely falsely predict that if MORE guns were legally available, that you would somehow attack or defend against more gun crimes and somehow hence disincentivize gun crimes.

I don't think that the evidence supports that, looking at countries that have reduced guns versus those that have not.

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit
Click the linky. DO IT.

(Source above)

Gunsnfreedom.com published a photograph of the sign on May 21, making "The Pit" restaurant a self-declared gun free zone--the same kind of zone Michael Bloomberg and Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America pressure other restaurants into becoming. According to Durham's ABC 11, around 9 PM "three men wearing hoodies entered the restaurant through the back doors with pistols, and forced several staff members to lie on the floor." The armed men "also assaulted two employees during the crime."

Do I really need to elaborate? This is what happens. I am confidant you will not see CNN, MSNBC or HuffPo running this story.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

You're naively assuming that the government will be this benevolent entity that would never oppress its citizens. The second amendment has nothing to do with "gun violence" or crime.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I see that your in NY. How is that violent crime.....and gun crime going there????

With all that crime, and all those laws you should reside in the safest state in the US. Yet....you don't......

Maybe rethink your angle??? Or just continue to march around as if you get to tell others how to live.

That is false equivalency. New York crime rates have been steadily falling since the early 90's, and that has nothing to do with gun ownership or rights. Second, New York is the most densely populated area in the U.S., with the largest population, and large areas of poverty. Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with more or less gun rights. Finally, can you please cite a single shred of peer-reviewed, scientifically valid research that shows a causal connection between having more legal guns and having less crime/gun crime/violent crime, or whatever it is you guys keep claiming?

Until gun control is across the board, you won't see the effects intended. Fact is, we have far too many guns in the U.S. and far too many of the wrong people getting a hold of them.

In almost none of the mass shootings or even drive by's or robberies did some NRA dude stop it with their own weapons. You are living in a fantasy world.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I see that your in NY. How is that violent crime.....and gun crime going there????

With all that crime, and all those laws you should reside in the safest state in the US. Yet....you don't......

Maybe rethink your angle??? Or just continue to march around as if you get to tell others how to live.

You naively assume that gun control advocates are not aware of all of this. Also, the thread itself was implying that reducing or banning guns in a location ironically allowed it to be a site of gun crime. Hence, I directly addressed a claim. What isn't logical is if an opponent addresses claim A, and then someone says "hey, that has nothing to do with claim B," which was not the original topic.

Look dude, unless the government allows you machine guns, mortars, tanks, surface to air missiles, and so on, you will not stand a chance against your feared tyrannical government. This is not to say that such a government is not possible nor something to guard against.

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

You're naively assuming that the government will be this benevolent entity that would never oppress its citizens. The second amendment has nothing to do with "gun violence" or crime.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

Look dude, unless the government allows you machine guns, mortars, tanks,

We can own such things.

Just have to pay the Govt dictated Sin Tax. It is called a Tax Stamp or Luxury Tax.

And live rounds? Do you mean to tell me that you can have live tank rounds and fire them?

originally posted by: macman

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

Look dude, unless the government allows you machine guns, mortars, tanks,

We can own such things.

Just have to pay the Govt dictated Sin Tax. It is called a Tax Stamp or Luxury Tax.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Yes, yes you can.
Well, probably not in NY. You guys can't have such things. Your politicians seem to think you and the other NY citizens are not adult enough to own such things....along with many basic generic firearms.

Certain rounds not so much. Depleted Uranium and rounds like that you can't.

We can also own and fire cannons.

You really should catch up to what we can own.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Yes, yes you can.
Well, probably not in NY. You guys can't have such things. Your politicians seem to think you and the other NY citizens are not adult enough to own such things....along with many basic generic firearms.

Certain rounds not so much. Depleted Uranium and rounds like that you can't.

We can also own and fire cannons.

You really should catch up to what we can own.

Stop feeding the troll. He is spewing the anti-gun playbook letter for letter. It will do no good to argue with someone this ignorant of reality.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
...can you please cite a single shred of peer-reviewed, scientifically valid research that shows a causal connection between having more legal guns and having less crime/gun crime/violent crime, or whatever it is you guys keep claiming?

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I see that your in NY. How is that violent crime.....and gun crime going there????

With all that crime, and all those laws you should reside in the safest state in the US. Yet....you don't......

Maybe rethink your angle??? Or just continue to march around as if you get to tell others how to live.

Click and Learn

Click and Learn

Click and Learn

The articles link to the actual studies. You asked for it.

I am not a troll.

You do realize that much of the world sees the pro-gun fanatics as being stuck in the 18th century right? I am not anti-gun nor a prohibitionist. I just recognize that many people cannot be trusted with high powered weaponry or even guns at times. Most murders and crimes actually occur in the heat of the moment, often by normal or otherwise law-abiding citizens.

You guys are like a communist who thinks that communism will work if everyone was just as idealistic and committed as yourselves. You falsely assume that because you have self-control, or agency, or whatever, that others and society will be able to handle everyone having access to such weaponry. Can you at least admit that this view is a logical fallacy?

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Yes, yes you can.
Well, probably not in NY. You guys can't have such things. Your politicians seem to think you and the other NY citizens are not adult enough to own such things....along with many basic generic firearms.

Certain rounds not so much. Depleted Uranium and rounds like that you can't.

We can also own and fire cannons.

You really should catch up to what we can own.

Stop feeding the troll. He is spewing the anti-gun playbook letter for letter. It will do no good to argue with someone this ignorant of reality.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

You do realize that much of the world sees the pro-gun fanatics as being stuck in the 18th century right?

Why would we care?
Do you go through life worried about what your neighbor thinks of you?

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
I am not anti-gun nor a prohibitionist. I just recognize that many people cannot be trusted with high powered weaponry or even guns at times. Most murders and crimes actually occur in the heat of the moment, often by normal or otherwise law-abiding citizens.

So, in one breath you say you are not anti-gun, then state many people can't be trusted with firearms.
You are an elitist. Plain and simple. And a control freak at that.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
You guys are like a communist who thinks that communism will work if everyone was just as idealistic and committed as yourselves. You falsely assume that because you have self-control, or agency, or whatever, that others and society will be able to handle everyone having access to such weaponry. Can you at least admit that this view is a logical fallacy?

We have the right to own firearms. What a shame that you think "many" shouldn't because you don't agree with what they say or do.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Wrong!

Wrong!!

Wrong!!!

What really got me about your post is that you care so much about what others may think of you. Comparing people who are pro gun to communists is just flat out wrong, but I see what you tried to do there, and it didn't work. That in and of itself is a "logical fallacy".

Guns save lives, you just only here of the ones that kills because that's all the MSM reports.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

You are describing over 1/3 of the population of our country as backward and communist-like (Communist..pro gun..HUH?!) for honoring and appreciating the rights we were born with for the possession of a firearm in defense or whatever other reason we want one for.




Source

It's one of those things...and math is pretty clear on it. The US isn't backward, we happen to like it this way. Honestly. sincerely LIKE it this way. Some states don't. Some cities don't. Good...The founders created the 10th Amendment for precisely that reason and it is as it stands today. I have little to no serious regulations against guns in Missouri beyond the standard Criminal/Mental health/Military Discharge conditions that everyone has. California is a much different story. Two states. Two populations..and to each their own, as it was intended.

However.. To suggest 100 million people across a 1/3rd of total households in our nation are somehow wrong or outdated is certainly an interesting position to take. I've enjoyed firearms my entire life and I don't feel outdated.

a reply to: macman
NY used to be a pretty decent state to live in(the country part at least), until NYC boneheads started implementing their paranoid, control freak BS "laws" state-wide in the early 90's. It went downhill from there.

That is really the issue I have with gun control crap. Done statewide is stupid, done federally it's downright retarded. We don't have all these violence problems in the country, that the city dwellers have. It's not right we get punished for the actions of morons in the metropolis areas.

a reply to: TKDRL

The latest figures that I could find are from 2010. Sheople bemoan all the "gun" deaths in the U.S. but fail to mention that suicides by firearm constitute the majority of these deaths.

Suicides by gun accounted for about six of every 10 firearm deaths in 2010 and just over half of all suicides, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. SOURCE

Ones who are bent on committing suicide are going to use whatever vehicle they have at their disposal. Removing firearms from society will merely force this 50+% of suicides by firearm to use another vehicle.

a reply to: rockflier
You know, I knew they lumped in suicide with the numbers, what I didn't know is that it effected the numbers that much... ~60% is a huge number to add. It's sad as hell there are that many suicides.