The Legacy of Pine Bush, NY

a reply to: Scdfa

Hey Scdfa, would be interested in hearing more about your experiences, and in what part of the Hudson Valley you were in, if you don't mind elaborating. Brofjw did a fantastic job with his posts above nailing the mysterious complicated texture of the Pine Bush story, and a lot of that can be applied to other areas of Hudson Valley, like Carmel and the Reservoir Road area. Obviously this has struck a chord with folks like raceagainstsarkness, HAARPO and myself.

a reply to: brofjw

Brofjw, good thread and hope it gets many replies - haven't got much to add but Cmdraleon (Cosmic Eye Radio Show Host) also mentions some Pine Bush sightings in Kandinsky's thread below.


Hudson Valley: Lights, Triangles and Boomerangs

originally posted by: Scdfa

I recommend reading the book "Night Siege", co-written by J. Allen Hyneck himself, it provides a decent overview of the situation. Unfortunately, Hyneck insisted on omitting all alien abduction claims of witnesses, he insisted the public could not accept anything further than UFO sightings.

Free copy of that here Scdfa although looks like Phil Imbrogno's credentials are a bit iffy (link).

Cheers.

Thank you pinebushanomaly! It did raise some feelings. I have never been to that area but my strangeness happened in South Dakota and Nebraska over a decade long. Alot of the things I have read on this thread hsppened and I truly thought I was nuts even though there were several witnesses. Funny thing is I have had to keep going over them in my mind occasionally because they seem to kind of fade or get fuzzy....
Thank you brofjw for a great thread! reply to: pinebushanomaly

originally posted by: pinebushanomaly
a reply to: Scdfa

Hey Scdfa, would be interested in hearing more about your experiences, and in what part of the Hudson Valley you were in, if you don't mind elaborating. Brofjw did a fantastic job with his posts above nailing the mysterious complicated texture of the Pine Bush story, and a lot of that can be applied to other areas of Hudson Valley, like Carmel and the Reservoir Road area. Obviously this has struck a chord with folks like raceagainstsarkness, HAARPO and myself.

During this period my family was very much in demand by these beings. It wasn't anything new to us, they had been taking us since the Kennedy administration, but the early 1980s was a period of significant and frequent involvement and intrusion into our lives. I have never discussed our personal experiences in this forum, but time moves very fast, and things have changed. Maybe the time has come.

I certainly didn't mean to derail this very interesting thread. I'll just say that I witnessed several different types of alien ships during the Hudson Valley flap of 1982-1985. As far as I know, the Hudson Valley is one of the biggest sighting events of ufology in the modern era. Perhaps tens of thousands of witnesses by some accounts.

a reply to: Scdfa
Hey Scdfa, You're not derailing the thread, definitely appreciate what you've posted. Just a quick note concerning what Karl 12 posted about Night Siege and Phil Imbrogno. Yes, Imbrogno lied about his MIT background (at least), and certainly this casts a shadow on one of the most revered UFO books, and one that cracked the mainstream. There were three authors listed: Imbrogno, Hynek and Pratt. As best I can tell Hynek acted as the senior adviser while Imbrogno did much of the ground work. It wouldn't surprise me if Pratt was the one who adapted Imbrogno's material into what became Night Siege. The one thing that tipped a number of us off that there was something fishy about Imbrogno was reading unproofed writings by him as his grasp of the English language was extremely sub-par, something that didn't jive up with him being an alleged MIT graduate. Also, his other published output was clearly not on the same level as Night Siege without the watchful eyes of Hynek and Pratt. Ultimately all it took was someone to call MIT and check on his claims. The thing about Imbrogno is that he was by far the most visible name associated with the Hudson Valley UFO mystery, so he was the one that everyone contacted to relay their stories. Which means his raw collection of cases from the area is probably mind blowing. Certainly he could end his story on a positive note by giving those cases to another researcher and letting someone else comb through the data. Linda Zimmerman is the best candidate as she has managed to start a renaissance of interest in the larger Hudson Valley sightings during the wave of the Eighties as well as before and after.
So Phil, if you're reading, how 'bout it?

Call me crazy but I'm convinced there is a lot of bleed-over between PA and the NY military facilities. Lots of oddness running around PA that is under reported if reported at all. If you look at this tilting your head just slightly to one side you have to ask.....for this in general being on the east coast, why on earth is so much land undeveloped from NY thru PA both south & north?

Efforts are made sporadically to develop better infrastructure into PA's northern tier as well as NY's southern tier only to see it repeatedly fail. Mmmmm.....There are & have been rumors of facilities here in northern PA but it's sporatic and dropped like a hot potato.

originally posted by: brofjw
There were utterly bizarre things which were seen by many people throughout the area, including myself and my closest friends.

You're not kidding. Pine Bush NY is one of the strangest places I have ever been.

I went there with my research associate many years ago now, in about the timeframe you mention, early 90's. Spent the day from early morning and left around 4am that next day. While there, we did not see any structured objects such as had been reported - but we saw some really bizarre stuff.

1) A lemur behind the McDonalds. Yes, a lemur. An animal that clearly didn't belong there. We saw it clearly, and it was unmistakable.

2) During the day, we drove around the area - Searsville road we must have gone up and down 100 times, that supposed to be the hot area. Saw nothing UFO related. But, we did turn a corner and see a low flying helicopter, with soldiers repelling out of it. They were very close, and we didn't stick around long. Somewhere buried in the VHS tape dump I have video I shot there and that is on it.

As night approached, it was like Black Bart was coming to town. People shut windows and shutters and disappeared inside. We didn't see 3 people all night. We thought that was really strange. This was summertime - and during the day people were hiking and biking, and all sort of recreational stuff. We expected to see a lot of people out and about...but it was a ghost town.

3) As we left we passed around and down a mountain, which overlooked some kind of hang gliding school or something. There was a big grass circle there we saw in the daytime that looked like a cropcircle (but it was a training target of some kind) On the other side of that field with the hang gliding was a country store on a corner where we made a left to leave. As we looked over on the mountain we just came down, there was a very large golden sphere of light - very big - which seemed to be hovering to the left of the peak. Against my better judgement I let my friend talk me into going up the mountain again. When we got up top, there was no light. When we came off the mountain again, it was there.

Ted Phillips has reported the same effect in Marley Woods.

4) By this time I was freaked. I just wanted to leave. We'd had a very disturbing feeling while stopped on Searsville road near an open field. We saw nothing but black. But we palpably felt an overwhelming "watched" sensation that made us both highly uneasy. It came upon us both at the same time, and my friend spoke first "do you feel that?" He didn't have to ask, I already was. It was truly, truly, external and very overwhelming. We had the feeling we were to get out of there, like someone was saying to leave. Psychological? Always a possibility - but this was absurdly strong. Indescribable really.

5) As I was already freaked, we tore out the road I mentioned by the store, and off to the right side of the road - right by the road - was an approximately 6' tall ball of smoke. That's the only way I know to describe it. I did not mention it to my friend until we were way out of there. He did not see it as he was talking to me, and had I said "look at that" he'd have wanted to stop. I would not have. He was much more at peace with his fear than I was. I couldn't take it, and I had to get the hell out of there.

In short, if someone offered me a 24 hour all expense paid trip there plus 5K in cash I still wouldn't go. You couldn't get me back there on a bet. Lee, (my friend and research associate) went back. Alone, and spent the night camping in the woods near there. He had a pivotal experience there that made him effectively leave the field behind, only recently returning to interest in it. He's a far braver man than I. Like I said...not on a bet would I ever go back.

The only equally strange place(s) I can say are, one that I know and keep confidential - and the other is Gulf Breeze, FLA - where I've been a few times and experienced some weird stuff there too. But not near the magnitude of absurdity as Pine Bush. Gulf Breeze I don't think I'd have an issue going back now. But it's no less weird.

Pine Bush? Forget it. Nope Nope Nope.

originally posted by: jritzmann

originally posted by: brofjw
There were utterly bizarre things which were seen by many people throughout the area, including myself and my closest friends.

You're not kidding. Pine Bush NY is one of the strangest places I have ever been.

I went there with my research associate many years ago now, in about the timeframe you mention, early 90's. Spent the day from early morning and left around 4am that next day. While there, we did not see any structured objects such as had been reported - but we saw some really bizarre stuff.

1) A lemur behind the McDonalds. Yes, a lemur. An animal that clearly didn't belong there. We saw it clearly, and it was unmistakable.

2) During the day, we drove around the area - Searsville road we must have gone up and down 100 times, that supposed to be the hot area. Saw nothing UFO related. But, we did turn a corner and see a low flying helicopter, with soldiers repelling out of it. They were very close, and we didn't stick around long. Somewhere buried in the VHS tape dump I have video I shot there and that is on it.

As night approached, it was like Black Bart was coming to town. People shut windows and shutters and disappeared inside. We didn't see 3 people all night. We thought that was really strange. This was summertime - and during the day people were hiking and biking, and all sort of recreational stuff. We expected to see a lot of people out and about...but it was a ghost town.

3) As we left we passed around and down a mountain, which overlooked some kind of hang gliding school or something. There was a big grass circle there we saw in the daytime that looked like a cropcircle (but it was a training target of some kind) On the other side of that field with the hang gliding was a country store on a corner where we made a left to leave. As we looked over on the mountain we just came down, there was a very large golden sphere of light - very big - which seemed to be hovering to the left of the peak. Against my better judgement I let my friend talk me into going up the mountain again. When we got up top, there was no light. When we came off the mountain again, it was there.

Ted Phillips has reported the same effect in Marley Woods.

4) By this time I was freaked. I just wanted to leave. We'd had a very disturbing feeling while stopped on Searsville road near an open field. We saw nothing but black. But we palpably felt an overwhelming "watched" sensation that made us both highly uneasy. It came upon us both at the same time, and my friend spoke first "do you feel that?" He didn't have to ask, I already was. It was truly, truly, external and very overwhelming. We had the feeling we were to get out of there, like someone was saying to leave. Psychological? Always a possibility - but this was absurdly strong. Indescribable really.

5) As I was already freaked, we tore out the road I mentioned by the store, and off to the right side of the road - right by the road - was an approximately 6' tall ball of smoke. That's the only way I know to describe it. I did not mention it to my friend until we were way out of there. He did not see it as he was talking to me, and had I said "look at that" he'd have wanted to stop. I would not have. He was much more at peace with his fear than I was. I couldn't take it, and I had to get the hell out of there.

In short, if someone offered me a 24 hour all expense paid trip there plus 5K in cash I still wouldn't go. You couldn't get me back there on a bet. Lee, (my friend and research associate) went back. Alone, and spent the night camping in the woods near there. He had a pivotal experience there that made him effectively leave the field behind, only recently returning to interest in it. He's a far braver man than I. Like I said...not on a bet would I ever go back.

The only equally strange place(s) I can say are, one that I know and keep confidential - and the other is Gulf Breeze, FLA - where I've been a few times and experienced some weird stuff there too. But not near the magnitude of absurdity as Pine Bush. Gulf Breeze I don't think I'd have an issue going back now. But it's no less weird.

Pine Bush? Forget it. Nope Nope Nope.

Thank you for an absolutely fascinating account. Wow, it was chilling to read, and your writing was very vivid and compelling.

It is spooky out there in the woods or on the road. For us, things got strange even on the well-lit suburban streets.

Fascinating thread and thanks for all the details people have offered up. You might like to check this out as, over here in Blighty we have our own areas of "high strangeness"

The Warminster Mystery

If you can track them down Arthur Shuttleworth's books are an interesting read. Again, high military involvement in the area, secret "works" not too far from the area and a long history of "high strangeness".

a reply to: jritzmann

Hey J., Thanks so much for posting your accounts! I've admired your Paranormal Waypoint site for a while, and had no idea you ventured into my favorite window area. I'm very curious where exactly you saw the ball of smoke and at what time of the evening. Also great to hear you saw one of the stationary lights that frequent the area (I can't remember whether it was Piedmont or Yakima they used to refer to them as "Amber Gamblers or Ramblers", but there's a number of reports from the Pine Bush area of silent large balls of light slowly drifting over the fields at small airplane/helicopter flying height.

Will reach out to you later today; fascinating stuff. Thanks again for posting!

a reply to: HAARPO

I'm beginning to think that Ellen Crystall and many people like her were actually agents of the CIA or similar. The "whacked out of her skull" part fits in perfectly with the spiritual hippy "I want to believe" mentality and is part of a program to do just that: Make people believe that the government's secret echnology and the clandestine experiments which involve it are actually the product of ET's from outer space or other dimensions. Ellen rystall is supposedly dead, but her "teachings" and aledged observations live on in legacy that may as well be like the Jim Morisson or Elvis of UFOology. It spawned a social movement, or at least reinforced. If you stop and think, you will realize that is a large part of what the CIA does worldwide.

Maybe only the character Ellen Crystall is dead but the agent who played the role has simply been reassigned or retired. Or may maybe she Is dead....bumped off after she became a liability. She may have even been a real person and a real believer...but one who was cultivated and used by the CIA unknowingly, with her mind filled with the very dung that she was intended to spread around.

I for one, having lived for some time in Pine Bush and experienced the culture and some odd events there, believe that it was all related to some type of alternate Area 51 type of facility with bunkers, labs and hangers hidden under the mountains and fields. The entrances would of course have been on some of the many known properties already owned by the government and off limits to civilians. My case and point is best exemplified by the atomic supercollider project which was proposed to be installed under the region but was defeated in the courts. This would have given the government a legitimate reason to have access underground. I think they did it anyway, in secret. And I think far more was intended for construction than just a supercollider.

I am enjoying reading this post and all of everyone’s experiences.
Thanks

Same here in following along!
Plus talk about a "blast from the past"! Checked out your ParanormalWaypoint site and lo & behold you had archived some material that mentioned Dr. Bruce Cornets involvement in Pinebush. That's a name I haven't heard in about 20 years.

Not to derail, but way back in metaphysical pre-history his ex-wife did some very interesting work correlating geological landscapes to incidences of high strangeness. It was like a bolt out of the blue coming across the name for me.

Thanks for the smiles!!!!

originally posted by: brofjw
snip
Maybe only the character Ellen Crystall is dead but the agent who played the role has simply been reassigned or retired. Or may maybe she Is dead....bumped off after she became a liability. She may have even been a real person and a real believer...but one who was cultivated and used by the CIA unknowingly, with her mind filled with the very dung that she was intended to spread around.
snip

As awful as the CIA is, they're not that stupid to consider Ellen worthy of being an agent.

Tribute to Ellen Crystall, Ph.D.
www.pinebushufo.com...
Tragically, Ellen developed pancreatic cancer during 1999 and fought the disease vigorously for more than two and a half years, never giving up hope that she could overcome it. Many from the Pine Bush UFO community contacted her during her battle, and found that despite being in great pain she still displayed her confident personality and unique outlook. She sadly succumbed to the disease December 16, 2002. She was 52 years old.

a reply to: Caver78

the paranormal waypoint link is not working
also bruce cornet has been writing some articles for the filer's files recently