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Former Abortion Clinic Owner: We Pushed Sex Ed on Kids to Create a Market for Abortion

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posted on May, 29 2014 @ 12:42 AM
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originally posted by: ArtemisE
a reply to: JuniorDisco

Awe come on. She's a conservative, they never let the facts stop them from pushing their agenda. :p



They should stick to the whole "abortion is murder argument". Trying to make up other reasons why something is bad and using false equivelencies just makes people look stupid.


If you are going to post personal attacks, direct them to me. Otherwise, take your misinformed opinions elsewhere. You are doing nothing but disrupting a thread.




posted on May, 29 2014 @ 12:45 AM
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originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: erwalker

No one said they had to be any good at it...and I'll agree, they have all the skills of a child in a finger painting contest.

However...one of my son's good friends has a mom working in P.P. Someone I don't get along all that well with, although that's changing a bit. She's apparently been through some life experiences which changed her a bit toward being a direct part of the carnage.

What she told me..not what I kinda sorta think I know...is why I *HATE* Planned Parenthood with a passion that'll see me attending any meeting and giving time to any effort meant to shut them down cold. At least get them out of my state forever.

I Don't mean to reply strong..but this is a very very intense issue to some of us and what the OP's story describes isn't new. It's simply one more person out of the industry to confirm what has been reported by people like her far longer than these past few years people have made a issue to care.


I'd be interested in the details of what you heard. That's the sort of thing we always hear from every single whistleblower from that industry, and indeed, it isn't anything new at all. The deniers simply can't handle the facts being exposed, and facing that what they have supported so strongly is fundamentally flawed.

Like the new avatar pic, btw!



posted on May, 29 2014 @ 12:51 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Yes, that is rhetoric. You are trying to compare the number of abortions performed while it was illegal (an impossible number to know) to when it is legal (many things involved with this number). It's an apples to oranges comparison and the only people who would look at the numbers and see something wrong are the people who WANT to see something wrong.

I didn't compare anything; I simply gave the number for abortions since the law was passed. Assuming that 55 million illegal abortions were performed is rather ridiculous, however.


originally posted by: Krazysh0t
The world isn't safe. There are mean and dishonest people out there. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it will be totally safe, but you I can guarantee that when it IS illegal it is far more unsafe than when it is legal. Study after study after study bares this out and not just for abortions. ANY substance or action, when made illegal, becomes much more unsafe. It's just a fact of life. Sorry hun, you're wrong.


So, if there is anything unsafe in the world, that means it's acceptable to you to have unsafe and unsupervised abortion clinics? Nice attitude.



originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Appreciate the discussion? I just don't appreciate you using straw mans and other fallacies to try to make the problems you are pointing out look worse than they are.


What have you offered? What facts? Oh, that's right; you haven't. All you do is claim mine are in error, while offering none of your own. Your entire argument is a ad hominem attack against anyone that is pro-life.



posted on May, 29 2014 @ 12:53 AM
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a reply to: tovenar

A race war, indeed, but didn't you know it isn't PC to talk about that?

The "arguments" of the pro-abortion side are baseless, aimed at denigrating the opposition, denying reality, and defending the indefensible.

I for one will never understand how any minority politician could be supportive of a policy that is basically genocide against their own people.



posted on May, 29 2014 @ 12:54 AM
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originally posted by: captaintyinknots
Isnt it funny that all of these things posted cite hardcore christians as the voice of reason in it?

Y'all gotta realize...nobody gives 2 craps about your religion but you.

NO. ONE.


Do you have anything to say that isn't attacking a group, and is actually relevant to the issue? If you didn't care, you wouldn't be here posting, either.



posted on May, 29 2014 @ 12:57 AM
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originally posted by: Kali74
FFS Are you goddamn kidding me? Abortion Industry?! Really? It's a medical procedure not a frigging factory line. No time to clean up between abortions? For love of... apply some critical thinking.


Apparently, you never listened to any testimonies from women that have had abortions. I have. There are stories of women being shuffled through so fast they barely even have the procedure explained, inadequate, or no, pain medication, inadequate follow-up instructions, tons of complications, some of which render the woman sterile, and on and on and on. Yes, industry is a very fitting term. Abortion clinics are there to perform abortions; they aren't general medical facilities.



posted on May, 29 2014 @ 12:59 AM
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originally posted by: ArtemisE
a reply to: iwilliam

I wonder if the OP will come back since her myth has been busted WIDE open and apologize for her hopefully unintentional attempt at disinformation.

You gotta love conservatives.


Maybe if you managed to post a single FACT, instead of trolling, I might have a serious response for you. All you can do is belittle people, which is, by the way, against the TOS of the site. Contribute, or post elsewhere.



posted on May, 29 2014 @ 01:01 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
This information contradicts some of what you are saying:


The U.S. teenage pregnancy rate was at a high in the 1950s and has decreased since then, although there has been an increase in births out of wedlock.[21] The teenage pregnancy rate decreased significantly in the 1990s; this decline manifested across all racial groups, although teenagers of African-American and Hispanic descent retain a higher rate, in comparison to that of European-Americans and Asian-Americans. The Guttmacher Institute attributed about 25% of the decline to abstinence and 75% to the effective use of contraceptives.[22] While in 2006 the U.S. teen birth rate rose for the first time in fourteen years,[23] it reached a historic low in 2010: 34.3 births per 1,000 women aged 15–19.[1]


en.wikipedia.org...

Note that the teen pregnancy rate was at a high during the 1950's -- when there was no comprehensive sex education in schools. Also the largest decline in teen pregnancies was during the 1990's - attributed mostly to the use of contraceptives. Planned Parenthood must have been doing something right! Also, sex ed in schools was really going strong on a national level about that time, after the AIDS crisis of the 1980's. Coincidence?

Teen abortion rates have, for the most part, followed the same trends as teen pregnancies. They have been declining since abortion was made legal.


Teenage Abortion Rate

In 2008 the teen abortion rate was 17.8 abortions per 1,000 women, the lowest rate since abortion was legalized. Abortion rates for teens peaked in 1988 at 43.5 per thousand; compared with the 2008 rate, that represents a decline of 59%. Although teen birth and abortion rates have been on a steady decline for more than two decades, in 2006 there was an short-lived increase in both the teenage birth and abortion rate. Both rates resumed their decline according to 2008 figures.


womensissues.about.com...


Wikipedia and a prop-abortion site are reliable, but pro-life sites aren't? Find better sources.



posted on May, 29 2014 @ 03:09 AM
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a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

You don't see this as a little one sided though? I mean, in all honesty, how does sex ed, which teaches ways to avoid std and pregnancy, increase abortions? Kids find out and kids are going to do it with or without sex ed.

I don't believe it and only partially because i don't trust the source.



posted on May, 29 2014 @ 03:14 AM
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a reply to: GogoVicMorrow
You don't believe girls were intentionally given birth control pills so that they would become pregnant and get abortions?

edit on 5/29/2014 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2014 @ 07:08 AM
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originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
I didn't compare anything; I simply gave the number for abortions since the law was passed. Assuming that 55 million illegal abortions were performed is rather ridiculous, however.


Assuming in general is ridiculous. All I am saying is that the number of abortions performed while it was illegal is unknowable. I'm also saying that there are different factors that go into that total number (like the legality for one, and the safety of the procedure for another). It just doesn't do much to say that more abortions were performed now that it is legal then when it was illegal. You might as well be saying the sky is blue for all you've done to move the conversation forward.


So, if there is anything unsafe in the world, that means it's acceptable to you to have unsafe and unsupervised abortion clinics? Nice attitude.


Um... no... I never said that at all. Don't put words in my mouth. The reason I even ARGUE for it to be legal in the first place is so that it is safe and properly supervised. Then when it isn't, we can prosecute the people who are violating safety codes. When it is illegal, like you keep saying it should be, those safety measures and oversights can't happen because we are instead prosecuting the poor women doing back-alley abortions. Don't twist my words.

One more thing, people WILL get abortions regardless about how you or I feel about it and regardless of the legality. -I- want the procedure to be AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE. Not completely open to the black market like you want all because you've located a few bad apples.


What have you offered? What facts? Oh, that's right; you haven't. All you do is claim mine are in error, while offering none of your own. Your entire argument is a ad hominem attack against anyone that is pro-life.


First off, you obviously don't know what an ad hominem attack is if you think that my argument is one. Ad hominem attacks are insults. If I have DIRECTLY insulted you in any way instead of debating the topic I want you to quote my words. Otherwise don't try to pretend like I am verbally assaulting you. If you feel this isn't adequate then report me since ad hominem attacks are also against the T&C, the mods will clear up any discrepencies. But I think you will fail in my request because I never once insulted you nor any other pro-life person.

What facts and figures do I even need to offer? You are posting an article about ONE corrupt abortion clinic and trying to extrapolate that to the whole industry. I'm saying that is poor reasoning and a strawman argument. How do I even back that position up with facts and figures? Your logic is unsound and I'm declaring it so. Basically, I'm saying you are wrong.
edit on 29-5-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2014 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

When did wiki become a proabortion site?!?!



Oh that's right... Any non rightwing site is part of the devils conspiracy to discredit Christianity....



posted on May, 29 2014 @ 09:57 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

She's just mad that no one is falling for her garbage..... I mean come on! She believes every rightwing talking point she hears... What's wrong with the rest of you people.....



posted on May, 29 2014 @ 10:06 AM
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I think that the OP has failed to grasp that, sadly, there will always be the need for abortions. We live in an imperfect world. Remove the right to have abortions and you'll just drive it underground - where people will die.



posted on May, 29 2014 @ 10:12 AM
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originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
I think that the OP has failed to grasp that, sadly, there will always be the need for abortions. We live in an imperfect world. Remove the right to have abortions and you'll just drive it underground - where people will die.


Exactly, that's what I've been pointing out this entire time. But strangely the OP believes that pointing that out is an ad hominem attack against pro-lifers. Though personally, I think she is just spitting out debate buzzwords she may not be fully knowledgeable on's definitions.



posted on May, 29 2014 @ 01:01 PM
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originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
Isnt it funny that all of these things posted cite hardcore christians as the voice of reason in it?

Y'all gotta realize...nobody gives 2 craps about your religion but you.

NO. ONE.


Do you have anything to say that isn't attacking a group, and is actually relevant to the issue? If you didn't care, you wouldn't be here posting, either.


So, pointing out that it is always one specific religious group that attacks abortion is now attacking that group? It must be tough being the martyr all of the time.

See, though, you miss my point. That couldnt care less about your religion. What I DO care about is when people use their religion as an excuse to takevaway others rights.


(post by cocointelpro removed for a manners violation)

posted on May, 30 2014 @ 12:35 AM
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originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

You don't see this as a little one sided though? I mean, in all honesty, how does sex ed, which teaches ways to avoid std and pregnancy, increase abortions? Kids find out and kids are going to do it with or without sex ed.

I don't believe it and only partially because i don't trust the source.


Some sex ed teaches that. Some teaches a lot more. I know teachers. I have relatives and friends that are teachers. Some schools don't teach much more than they did when I was in school, but some do, and to much younger students. If any public schools are teaching kids about sexual practices, as opposed to basic related biology, birth control, and STDs, that's a problem. Kids aren't naturally that curious about sex till at least middle school/junior high age, unless they are taught. When kids are taught younger, they start thinking about it more, and they become curious. I know parents that are very careful about what their kids see at home and with friends, who have had issues solely because of what happens in the school. I know, at that age, most people I knew didn't think about sex all the time. In Junior High, most were embarrassed to even talk about it. These days, kids learn earlier, and become more curious earlier. My kids home school, and they think the whole topic is "icky". They all know they can come ask about anything, and the topic isn't taboo or anything; they simply aren't interested yet. Ages? 13, 12, and 11. Their contemporaries in public school are a lot more curious. Other home schooling parents say the same thing.

I have heard from parents who talk about elementary school age kids being told to draw the genitals of the opposite sex, for an assignment. There are books with explicit drawings of sexual activity, and young kids see those in school. So, when I hear that the abortion industry is behind a lot of that, I do believe it. I also have seen and heard from other whistle blowers from the abortion industry, who make similar claims. Unless there is some evidence to indicate this woman isn't being honest, I don't see a reason to doubt her. I KNOW people who were given the sort of birth control she mentions, that has to be taken at a certain time, or it doesn't work. One of them ended up pregnant on it, and she is a married adult. So, such birth control does exist.

It isn't all sex ed that is a problem; it's sex ed that goes too far. Check online for some reports of the sort I mean. You will find a lot more than you might expect. Thanks for being civil, too. Nice change on this thread! Expected from you, of course.



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 01:03 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
I didn't compare anything; I simply gave the number for abortions since the law was passed. Assuming that 55 million illegal abortions were performed is rather ridiculous, however.


Assuming in general is ridiculous. All I am saying is that the number of abortions performed while it was illegal is unknowable. I'm also saying that there are different factors that go into that total number (like the legality for one, and the safety of the procedure for another). It just doesn't do much to say that more abortions were performed now that it is legal then when it was illegal. You might as well be saying the sky is blue for all you've done to move the conversation forward.


Of course there are more now that it is legal. That's a given. The fact that a woman or teenage girl knows she can go out and get an abortion if she ends up pregnant means a lot take fewer precautions. That's why many end up having multiple abortions. I know someone who did. She had three, and she knew how to use birth control, as well. She also talks bout how terrible that was for her, and the lasting effects it's had on her life. Smart, professional lady, and she did it because it was convenient. Because she could. She said that herself. Without that "safety net", she would have been less likely to have sex outside of marriage. Her statements on that issue are very moving. That's someone I know personally, too, not something I read online.

The point is that legal abortion, on demand, for any reason, is simply wrong. That is what we have now. Pregnant? Career problems from that? Go abort the baby. Pregnant? Won't fit into your dress for that special event? Go abort the baby. People DO that. You can read those and other statements from women stating they had an abortion, with anything at all being a "valid" reason for the abortion. Not some real (rare) health risk. Not a case of rape. Simple convenience for the woman. Plus, they aren't safe now. Did you ever read about Gosnell? There are tons of clniics with little to no oversight, and really bad conditions.


So, if there is anything unsafe in the world, that means it's acceptable to you to have unsafe and unsupervised abortion clinics? Nice attitude.


Um... no... I never said that at all. Don't put words in my mouth. The reason I even ARGUE for it to be legal in the first place is so that it is safe and properly supervised. Then when it isn't, we can prosecute the people who are violating safety codes. When it is illegal, like you keep saying it should be, those safety measures and oversights can't happen because we are instead prosecuting the poor women doing back-alley abortions. Don't twist my words.

My response was based on your statement. You listed things that make the world unsafe, when I stated that these clinics are not properly supervised, and are frequently unsanitary and unsafe. If you don't want me to address that, don't use that as an argument. Making something that is inherently unsafe legal isn't a valid solution, either.


originally posted by: Krazysh0t
One more thing, people WILL get abortions regardless about how you or I feel about it and regardless of the legality. -I- want the procedure to be AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE. Not completely open to the black market like you want all because you've located a few bad apples.


So, should theft be legal because people will do it anyway? How about child abuse? Murder? Oh, wait, it is in this case. Safe theft, then, with laws against defending your home, so the poor burglars can go about their business as safely as possible. Nope, not a valid argument on your part.


originally posted by: Krazysh0t
What facts and figures do I even need to offer? You are posting an article about ONE corrupt abortion clinic and trying to extrapolate that to the whole industry. I'm saying that is poor reasoning and a strawman argument. How do I even back that position up with facts and figures? Your logic is unsound and I'm declaring it so. Basically, I'm saying you are wrong.


Offer any fact that shows this woman isn't credible. Offer any fact that sows most abortion clinics are safe. You can't, because we aren't allowed to even see their stats. We aren't allowed to know how many patients have to be taken to a hospital because of an error. Groups that have tried to do this, and that found many such patients, have had regulations passed against them that make it more difficult all the time. The whole process is done in secrecy. Planned Parenthood has been exposed as willing to cover up for a pedophile that got a victim pregnant, making them criminal. Gosnell was exposed as a butcher, that got away with it for long years. Other clinics have been exposed for having bad sanitation, for allowing untrained workers to perform procedures, for not giving any pain medication, etc. Unsafe and illegal procedures have been proven; where is the proof of safe and legal procedures?

The woman in the article wasn't discussing one clinic, either. She ran several, and she was involved in the lobbying at a national level. One location? Nope, not accurate.



posted on May, 30 2014 @ 01:07 AM
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originally posted by: ArtemisE
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

When did wiki become a proabortion site?!?!



Oh that's right... Any non rightwing site is part of the devils conspiracy to discredit Christianity....


I said wiki and a pro-abortion site. I didn't say it was one. Wiki isn't a reliable source, since it is so easily edited. I have edited pages there )movie, book), and have seen others change more than once in a single day, due to edits from whoever.




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