Former Abortion Clinic Owner: We Pushed Sex Ed on Kids to Create a Market for Abortion

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Teaching abstinence DOES work, and the links I provided proved that. Deliberately discussing the most extreme against the rest isn't hones

I don't think you're actually going to find many true "abstinence only" programs, that is, programs that don't mention contraception. What is being talked about are "abstinance only until marriage" programs. Those are the programs in the studies I cited.
en.wikipedia.org...

And so is the program in the study you provided. The one which I explained shows that the CTB program had no real effect.



Oh, remember when you said this:

The more sex ed in schools, and the more detailed it becomes, the more teen pregnancies we see.

But we don't really see that, do we? Teen pregnancies are declining.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

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Nope, no OBVIOUS bias there at all.....

originally posted by: Phage
Except we don't believe that is being done. We don't believe the claims of that woman because, among other things, they do not make any sense.

The math is simple. For the past 20 years there has been virtually no change in teen sexual activity. For the past twenty years teen pregnancy rates have been dropping. Is the reduction in pregnancy rates because teens are successfully using contraception or is it just will power?

You mean you don't believe that is being done, and some others here. Some people do believe it's happening. Her claims make perfect sense, and people that have used that sort of birth control agree.

That's not true at all, and the links I provided proved that. Pretending the information isn't there isn't a valid argument.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

You mean you don't believe that is being done, and some others here.

Yes. That would be "we."

That's not true at all, and the links I provided proved that. Pretending the information isn't there isn't a valid argument.

The links you provided do not prove that. The only study you linked does not show that, it shows that an "abstinence only until marriage" program was effective in getting kids to wait until school was out for the summer before having sex at the same rate as those who had a comprehensive program. Great.

The other links are pure speculation. Speculation which ignores:
Steady rate of teen sexual activity
Declining pregnancy rate
Declining abortion rate
Declining birth rate


Statistics show that "abstinence only until marriage" programs do not lower teen pregnancy rates more effectively than comprehensive programs. Statistics show that they can lead to higher pregnancy rates. Those are the facts. That is not speculation about attitudes and motivation.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
What a breathtakingly arrogant answer - you know it all and other people's opinions/facts/statistics are all wrong. Good day to you. Based on this and the answers to other posts from other people your mind is made up and you seem unable to face reality. The only person's answers that seem to be right, for you, is well, you.

I could say the same to you, easily.

You don't like my opinions, so they are "arrogant", or "wrong".

It's clear you haven't even read all of my posts.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
You don't like my opinions, so they are "arrogant", or "wrong".

No one minds opinions, but when those opinions are passed off as fact....

a reply to: Phage

Check the links again.

Your use of "we" is a bit much, since it implies that no one agrees with me, which isn't the case. WE think she's telling the truth.

Pretending that abstinence education doesn't work ignores all the facts.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

I don't think more then one person has agreed with you.... I know the ratio isn't close at all..... Might be like 10 to 3 against and that's me being nice.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Check the links again.

I did before posting. Can you point out my error?

WE think she's telling the truth.

You're gullible.

Pretending that abstinence education doesn't work ignores all the facts.

All of them? You posted one study which shows that it works as well as comprehensive programs (once summer vacation comes) for sexual activity rates. You have not posted any facts which show it reduces pregnancy rates.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

That is the key difference, of course. For me, unique DNA at even the earliest stages means a new human being, and thus abortion is murder. Simple science.

My nail clippings contain unique DNA. Should I be fishing them out of the bin? Have I just committed murder?

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: JuniorDisco
That's ridiculous. And complete sophistry. Legal abortions are by any measure much safer, despite not being risk free, so the argument absolutely stands. You just want to exclude it.

The logical conclusion of your argument is to abolish all safety measures in anything, since sometimes they fail. Planes occasionally crash, so clearly air flight should be completely unregulated because planes would still crash. Their number being apparently immaterial.

No, it isn't ridiculous. The abortion fans claim it's safe this way. If that isn't true, which it isn't, that makes their claim invalid.

Safety measures? Under whose enforcement? Places don't get inspected as they should, there is little to no oversight, and thus the industry isn't safe at all.

However this thread is about how abortion providers use sex ed to bring in patients. Stay on topic.

I was answering your specific point, so if anything it was you that veered off topic.

"Abortion fans" don't claim it's safe. They claim it's safer. That's important, and something your ideology apparently forces you to fail to grasp. Why else would you need to avoid the issue so carefully? Can you not live with the idea that your plans would kill and harm more women?

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
What a breathtakingly arrogant answer - you know it all and other people's opinions/facts/statistics are all wrong. Good day to you. Based on this and the answers to other posts from other people your mind is made up and you seem unable to face reality. The only person's answers that seem to be right, for you, is well, you.

I could say the same to you, easily.

You don't like my opinions, so they are "arrogant", or "wrong".

It's clear you haven't even read all of my posts.

I have actually, and I found that you seemed to be unable to face up to how unrealistic your claims are.

QUOTE from LadyGreenEyes :-
"For me unique DNA at even the earliest stages means a new human being,
and thus abortion is murder - Simple science"



Simple science >>>>

In point of fact unique DNA at the earliest stages means a possible
POTENTIAL new human being.

Murder is rather emotive language for 'termination'?

Until there is LIFE .... a LIFE cannot be taken .... and as a foetus has
total dependency on a woman's body to become a 'human being -
a LIVE birth is the most logical point for LIFE?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Do a simple web search for cases. There are plenty

Statistics walk.
Anecdotes talk.

Numerous studies show you are wrong. Numerous studies show that sex education does not lead to increased sexual activity. Statistics show that there has been no significant increase in teen sexual activity in the past 20 years.

What you have to realise about this poster - and I have seen it in other threads of hers - is that anecdote trumps meaningful studies every time for her. She has seen an instance of it so it must be a general truth. Well-researched analysis that disagrees with her? It must be nonsense.

originally posted by: ArtemisE
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

I don't think more then one person has agreed with you.... I know the ratio isn't close at all..... Might be like 10 to 3 against and that's me being nice.

Well, unlike some people, I don't need a cheering section. That you think otherwise shows you are more concerned with being popular than with being right. Think I'll stay right, and you and the rest of the pro-baby-killing crowd can root for one another.

a reply to: Phage

Abstinence is PART of any effective and comprehensive program. Discussing, as you did, abstinence-ONLY programs, and trying to compare them to the programs about which I posted, which INCLUDED abstinence, is your error. Reading comprehension matters.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: Phage

Abstinence is PART of any effective and comprehensive program. Discussing, as you did, abstinence-ONLY programs, and trying to compare them to the programs about which I posted, which INCLUDED abstinence, is your error. Reading comprehension matters.

But has abstinence ever worked? At all?

originally posted by: JuniorDisco

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

That is the key difference, of course. For me, unique DNA at even the earliest stages means a new human being, and thus abortion is murder. Simple science.

My nail clippings contain unique DNA. Should I be fishing them out of the bin? Have I just committed murder?

Now that argument is flat out stupid. Your nails are part of you, not a developing person. If that's the best you can do, give up already. That sort of foolish comment does nothing positive for your side. 'It does, however, show how ridiculous the pro-abortion side really is. Epic fail there.

originally posted by: JuniorDisco
I was answering your specific point, so if anything it was you that veered off topic.

"Abortion fans" don't claim it's safe. They claim it's safer. That's important, and something your ideology apparently forces you to fail to grasp. Why else would you need to avoid the issue so carefully? Can you not live with the idea that your plans would kill and harm more women?

Safer? I am 100% certain most of Gosnell's patients would disagree. And, no, it isn't important to protect someone committing murder. Your pro-abortion stance ignores that fact. Women killing their kids and demanding safer ways to do so stand on quicksand.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: Phage

Abstinence is PART of any effective and comprehensive program. Discussing, as you did, abstinence-ONLY programs, and trying to compare them to the programs about which I posted, which INCLUDED abstinence, is your error. Reading comprehension matters.

But has abstinence ever worked? At all?

Yes, it has. When teens avoid having sex, they don't get pregnant. When it is taught as acceptable, and they have support in the decision, it's more effective. The links I posted discuss the issue. Some in depth research would show you the same.

it makes sense. Think about it. If teens are told sex is acceptable and expected, they are more likely to engage. If they are told they can wait, show respect for themselves and their BF/GF, and that it is acceptable and normal to wait, then they see that as a valid and reasonable option. I KNOW people this worked for. Studies support it as well. I know when I was in school, sex ed wasn't as in depth (by a long shot) as it is now, and teens were expected to not engage in sex, and most didn't. I have watched the system change, and seen the increase in teen pregnancy and other issues. I have talked to teens that were told waiting was better, and to teens that weren't told, and seen how differently they think about the issue. Teens need boundaries, and when boundaries are removed, they take advantage. That's human nature.