Former Abortion Clinic Owner: We Pushed Sex Ed on Kids to Create a Market for Abortion

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Thats not what I said. I never claimed it was only christians. I said it was always christians leading the charge. Can you rwad or are you changing my wprds on purpose?

If this isnt about religious belief, why is it coming from a religiously biased source, and why does it feel the need to point out very early in the article that the woman in question is born again?

You can try and make this about me, but I am not the one who brought religion into it. You did.

(Nice pathetic ad hom)

Again, this thread is NOT about religion. This thread is about abortion clinics using various methods to bring in more business. Stay on topic, or start a thread about the religious aspect.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

The reasons that women have abortions have been discussed, in depth, repeatedly, in the myriad of other abortion threads..ergo there is no need for me to start another...

As for the rest of your post, quite apart from having a very rude and aggressive tone, it really was a case of tl:dr for me, as you're just going over and over the same nonsense again and again..very tedious.

Bottom line, I still think the premise of your OP is nonsense, and there is no point in you replying to this post, as firstly you are never going to convince me of the veracity of the OP and secondly, I am not going to continue contributing to the thread, thereby keeping it alive, well after its natural lifespan.

Peace.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

You keep ignoring the point that I have repeatedly brought up - if you make abortion illegal then you drive it underground. There will always be a need for it. You can rail against sex ed all you like, you can suggest umpteen ways of changing it, but it still gets wrecked on the rocks of reality. People have been having sex at the wrong time and with the wrong people since we fell out of the trees. There will always be a need for abortion. Make it illegal and IT WILL STILL HAPPEN. But it will be far less safe. You cannot deny that fact - and please don't bring up the issue that even some legal abortions are unsafe. I am talking about the old backstreet abortions which will kill people by mistake.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Hon, sex is a natural instinct in humans and animals, when you will realized that, is part of our nature and the preservation of the species, life will always find a way, with sex education or not, unless you take your children separated occurs and seal them into glass bubbles and even there they will find a way to explore their bodies and find gratification.

Abortion is as old as humanity and has been around as such.

Exposure to sex unless for child abuse doesn't mean promiscuity.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

From the first line of your posted source:

Everett, who left the abortion industry after a Christian business counselor she hired lead her to Christ,

Again, YOU are the one who made it about religion. Why are you trying so hard to hide from that?

If you think im so off topic, report me. Given that I am speaking about something directly stated in the op, I think ill be just fine.

Funny how hard christians try to spin and propagandize...

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
No, it isn't about women's rights; it's about killing children because they aren't "convenient" for their irresponsible mothers. Why not toddlers next? Why is one life stage less human than another? Is it your business if a mother kills her born children? Everyone seems to agree that's wrong. Abortion is no different, except that it is legal. Killing another human being for convenience is flat out wrong. Those killed have rights, too, which the law ignores. Gee, why prohibit any murder at all? Let their guilt eat them. Should cut down prison population.

How about you explain to me how keeping the child and having it grow up in an unhealthy environment or taken into social services is preferable there. At least with an abortion, you are killing it before it can think for itself. It isn't a human yet, just a fetus. That's the problem I have with you pro-lifers. You are SOOOOO adamant against abortions but I don't see you taking up causes for after they are born and the parents who aren't fit to provide for them give them a terrible childhood or they get confiscated by the government and get put into the system never to have a stable household until they grow up, unless they are EXTREMELY lucky. These people grow up and create more problems for us through crime.

This is why you should just leave it up to the future parents to decide. Kill the fetus or subject it to a terrible childhood. I'm sure you appreciate paying taxes for all those single women who have children and then go on government assistance to pay for them. This isn't a stand alone problem. Keeping it legal creates problems but making it illegal also creates just as many if not more problems.

Of course this whole point is moot because your OP still doesn't correlate or create the evidence you are painting for why abortion should be illegal. I didn't enter this thread to debate ethics. I just came in to proclaim that your OP makes egregious leaps in logic. The fact of the matter is that it is legal now and if you want to build a CREDIBLE reason for making abortion illegal, you need to do a better job. So regardless of how you feel about the ethics and what reasons women use to get abortions, its legal so they can do it. End of story.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm on your side amigo, but if consciousness is the defining characteristic of human life (and I'm not saying it shouldn't be) then abortion should be legal to like 2 years old. I saw on a Through the worm hole with Morgan freeman where children arnt self aware until about 3 ( I think? I'm doing this from memory...lol).


I personally think rather then murder. It's stopping a life from being born. Human life is also about your interactions, experiences
, emotions and your perception of the world. If you've never done any of those things. Then you can't really be considered to have had a life at all.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Off topic thought but, if we should out law abortion because we shouldn't play god with lives, wouldn't logic dictate we shouldn't save lives? If it's all part of gods plan, then he wants abortion legal.... It's part of his plan.

a reply to: ArtemisE

Responding to the both of your posts:

I'm on your side amigo, but if consciousness is the defining characteristic of human life (and I'm not saying it shouldn't be) then abortion should be legal to like 2 years old. I saw on a Through the worm hole with Morgan freeman where children arnt self aware until about 3 ( I think? I'm doing this from memory...lol).

I hadn't heard that yet, but if true that is certainly a good point.

I personally think rather then murder. It's stopping a life from being born. Human life is also about your interactions, experiences
, emotions and your perception of the world. If you've never done any of those things. Then you can't really be considered to have had a life at all.

I like this elaboration. Life is about a collection of events and how you've perceived them. Before birth, you aren't experiencing anything.

Off topic thought but, if we should out law abortion because we shouldn't play god with lives, wouldn't logic dictate we shouldn't save lives? If it's all part of gods plan, then he wants abortion legal.... It's part of his plan.

Wow that kind of blows my mind. I hadn't of thought of that before. Though I imagine that you won't find very many Christians who agree with this point though lol.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Its interesting that anti abortionist love to protect fetuses but once the fetuses becomes born human beings they turn their back, because when it comes to child abuse that is not a problem for the religious rights but a problem for the states and the Federal government.

a reply to: marg6043

Which if you think about it makes them hypocritical since most of these pro-lifers are conservatives and conservatives are for less government not more. Basically a result of pro-lifers getting their way results in the exact OPPOSITE of what they as conservatives want as far as government size goes.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

How about National Vital Statistics Reports from cdc.gov?

www.cdc.gov...

As much as you don't want to believe it, teen pregnancy (and teen abortion) rates HAVE been declining for many years now. We can thank Planned Parenthood for part of that - due to education, counseling, and lots of free contraception being provided.

originally posted by: destination now
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

The reasons that women have abortions have been discussed, in depth, repeatedly, in the myriad of other abortion threads..ergo there is no need for me to start another...

You brought up the reasons in this thread, so you can stop dodging and list them in this thread. If you don't think they are in need of discussion, you shouldn't have brought them up.

originally posted by: destination now
As for the rest of your post, quite apart from having a very rude and aggressive tone, it really was a case of tl:dr for me, as you're just going over and over the same nonsense again and again..very tedious.

You have that all backward, as usual. You want to claim there is no reason for discussing anything to do with abortion, because you have no [tolerance for the opinions of people that don't agree with you. Get over it. Discuss the topic of the thread, or leave. Either way.

originally posted by: destination now
Bottom line, I still think the premise of your OP is nonsense, and there is no point in you replying to this post, as firstly you are never going to convince me of the veracity of the OP and secondly, I am not going to continue contributing to the thread, thereby keeping it alive, well after its natural lifespan.

Peace.

Bottom line, you stated that opinion several times, with no reasons for it other than your claim that anyone on the other side of the argument from you must be "biased". That's not a debate; it's an opinion. I won't miss this sort of "contribution".

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

You keep ignoring the point that I have repeatedly brought up - if you make abortion illegal then you drive it underground. There will always be a need for it. You can rail against sex ed all you like, you can suggest umpteen ways of changing it, but it still gets wrecked on the rocks of reality. People have been having sex at the wrong time and with the wrong people since we fell out of the trees. There will always be a need for abortion. Make it illegal and IT WILL STILL HAPPEN. But it will be far less safe. You cannot deny that fact - and please don't bring up the issue that even some legal abortions are unsafe. I am talking about the old backstreet abortions which will kill people by mistake.

I didn't ignore the point; I addressed the point. Just because people will do something that is illegal, that doesn't mean you should make it legal, so they aren't breaking the law. That sort of thinking is utterly illogical. Should we make burglary legal, so burglars don't have to sneak around? Make it so they can knock on your door, walk in and take whatever they want, and you can't stop them? No police will help you? I mean, gee, they could be shot the way it stands now. Make it legal so they are safe, right? Wrong!

Abortions kill people now, every single time one is performed, unless it's really late term and the doctor "screws up", and the baby lives. Then, of course, they can toss them in some room alone to die, or snap a spine, right? Why make that illegal? Who is hurt? Oh, that's right, fifty-five million people and counting, and that doens't include the mothers that are scarred for life or die.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Hon, sex is a natural instinct in humans and animals, when you will realized that, is part of our nature and the preservation of the species, life will always find a way, with sex education or not, unless you take your children separated occurs and seal them into glass bubbles and even there they will find a way to explore their bodies and find gratification.

Abortion is as old as humanity and has been around as such.

Exposure to sex unless for child abuse doesn't mean promiscuity.

Natural for adults; not for children. This - Warning - do not read if squeamish! - is not a natural instinct, and is the sort of thing we see when "sex ed" is pushed on children at too early an age. Children that are not taught about sex are not generally curious about it till they are older. When elementary school kids are doing things like this, it's because someone showed them how. Schools, parents, whoever; that sort of thing isn't right for young kids.

Abortion is wrong. These days, in the United States, it's used as retroactive birth control, which is as sickening and irresponsible as is possible.

Yes, exposure too long does lead to promiscuous behavior. link

The system, as it is now, isn't helping.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

From the first line of your posted source:

Everett, who left the abortion industry after a Christian business counselor she hired lead her to Christ,

Again, YOU are the one who made it about religion. Why are you trying so hard to hide from that?

If you think im so off topic, report me. Given that I am speaking about something directly stated in the op, I think ill be just fine.

Funny how hard christians try to spin and propagandize...

No, I stated that sex ed is, according to this woman, used to drum up abortion business. That's the issue. Stick with it, or PM if you want to discuss something else. the topic isn't "Christians don't like abortion", it's "Former Abortion Clinic Owner: We Pushed Sex Ed on Kids to Create a Market for Abortion". Get it straight.

Now, of you have something to say on that topic, please do. Claiming that her Christian faith means she's not credible is a baseless argument. Unless you have some REAL evidence that she isn't, other than your personal bias, then she's a reliable source, and correct in what she stated.

Now, assuming she's correct, what do you personally think about that? Do you think it's right to trick girls into becoming sexually active, and then to give them birth control that isn't as reliable as other forms, so you can do more abortions? Be honest. Acceptable or not?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
How about you explain to me how keeping the child and having it grow up in an unhealthy environment or taken into social services is preferable there. At least with an abortion, you are killing it before it can think for itself. It isn't a human yet, just a fetus. That's the problem I have with you pro-lifers. You are SOOOOO adamant against abortions but I don't see you taking up causes for after they are born and the parents who aren't fit to provide for them give them a terrible childhood or they get confiscated by the government and get put into the system never to have a stable household until they grow up, unless they are EXTREMELY lucky. These people grow up and create more problems for us through crime.

Now you are using the arguments used by utilitarian bioethicists, who claim that "quality of life" issues are a valid reason for killing someone, at any age. It isn't our place to decide if someone will have what we think is a good enough life that they deserve to live, or die if we don't think they'll have what we think they need. It's supremely arrogant to assume to make such a decision for another person.

"Fetus" is simply a term for a stage of life, and no less human than "infant", "toddler", "child", and so forth.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
This is why you should just leave it up to the future parents to decide. Kill the fetus or subject it to a terrible childhood. I'm sure you appreciate paying taxes for all those single women who have children and then go on government assistance to pay for them. This isn't a stand alone problem. Keeping it legal creates problems but making it illegal also creates just as many if not more problems.

So, allow a person too irresponsible to care for a child to decide they can kill the child because it isn't convenient for them to raise one? No. How about anyone that wants abortion to be legal has themselves neutered, instead? Sex all they want, and no chance of pregnancy, ever. Much better than killing people.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Of course this whole point is moot because your OP still doesn't correlate or create the evidence you are painting for why abortion should be illegal. I didn't enter this thread to debate ethics. I just came in to proclaim that your OP makes egregious leaps in logic. The fact of the matter is that it is legal now and if you want to build a CREDIBLE reason for making abortion illegal, you need to do a better job. So regardless of how you feel about the ethics and what reasons women use to get abortions, its legal so they can do it. End of story.

I simply posted that this woman claims that's what's going on, so that could be discussed. Instead of debating the right or wrong of abortion, perhaps we can discuss whether what she claims is happening is right or wrong, how it could be done, hoe widespread it might be, etc.?

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

How about National Vital Statistics Reports from cdc.gov?

www.cdc.gov...

As much as you don't want to believe it, teen pregnancy (and teen abortion) rates HAVE been declining for many years now. We can thank Planned Parenthood for part of that - due to education, counseling, and lots of free contraception being provided.

Actually, you can thank the pro-life side for that, for pushing the message about the realities of abortion, so the teens decide it's wrong.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Actually, you can thank the pro-life side for that, for pushing the message about the realities of abortion, so the teens decide it's wrong.

How does deciding that abortion is wrong affect pregnancy rates?
Doesn't seem to be a big change in sexual activity. You think maybe that education about contraception has something to do with it?
Sexual activity
AbortionPregnacy, birth, abortion

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
No, I stated that sex ed is, according to this woman, used to drum up abortion business.

Which is a very stupid claim if you stopped to think about it.... in fact it does the opposite!

Now, assuming she's correct,

That is a wrong assumption to make!