Would discussion be better without "Shill" type posters???

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Then they get angry and demand to know why I am even on these forums if I can't accept these crazy ideas as true with the little proof they have.

What surprises me about the skeptic is that usually they cant even be open to the slightest possibility that a crazy idea might actually exist.
....No verifiable evidence or mainstream scientific backing??? ...Then get the heck outta here.
I think its unfortunate that circumstancial evidence means nothing to them.

But lets not get skeptic and shill mixed up here. I appreciate the skeptics. Shills disgust me but they are good for a laugh as they are quite easy to spot imo.

a reply to: cestrup

The problem I see with the forums, is that us skeptics are frowned upon and labeled outright naysayers/debunkers. It is a skeptic that will weigh all the facts, options and possibilities before making a final determination on any subject. In the case of a lack of evidence, we do point it out but remain open-minded.

I've been called a shill and a troll just for thinking this way and that's ok. I've been called worse.

What I have a problem with myself is that there seems to be a lot of people that are willing to believe is some esoteric topics so much that they are willing to distort facts and take things out of context so that the issue fits their belief system.

It's quickly becoming a religion of sorts to believe a lot of nonsense that comes out.....and some of us find that to be dangerous.

a reply to: Tucket

Not alway's as most shil will play along until a specific danger thread or subject is noted and will create an online persona, sometimes there are two or three operatives whom use the same avatar and they can only be spotted by studieing there different use of sentence or seeming different attitudes which can not be decisive in detecting them but certainly can be useful.
Most skeptics on the other hand will show a level of opposite and true belief but then there are also the breed whom simply want to win an argument and so will try to pull a thread apart not because they are shil or sceptic but because they enjoy doing so, regard such as classy troll's and they can be hard to detect but when millions of people visit a site and hundred's of thousand's are members of a site then they are among them as are shil's and other intelligence operatives, psychopaths, sociopaths, paranoid shizoid's and all manner of people, among them though are the truth seeker's and they are why these site's exist, even some of the shil are truth seekers though they won't tell there boss.

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
a reply to: cestrup

The problem I see with the forums, is that us skeptics are frowned upon and labeled outright naysayers/debunkers. It is a skeptic that will weigh all the facts, options and possibilities before making a final determination on any subject. In the case of a lack of evidence, we do point it out but remain open-minded.

I've been called a shill and a troll just for thinking this way and that's ok. I've been called worse.

What I have a problem with myself is that there seems to be a lot of people that are willing to believe is some esoteric topics so much that they are willing to distort facts and take things out of context so that the issue fits their belief system.

It's quickly becoming a religion of sorts to believe a lot of nonsense that comes out.....and some of us find that to be dangerous.

This is the crux of it. A skeptic (not a shill) considers the evidence and decides what is most plausible.

A lot of more "fringe" posters on ATS seem to automatically disbelieve anything that a scientist says (because scientists are all in the employ of the evil government, or something), however strong the evidence, but will swallow anything some anonymous person posts on YouTube without question.

It's anti-intellectualism, and it's making the world dumber, one YouTube video at a time.

a reply to: 12m8keall2c

Yet they do exist. The Fukushima is a good example in my opinion. Those guys were easy to spot because of their poor English, my guess is the ones who tried to downplay the event so adamantly were not english speakers.

I do believe that shilling goes very far. After the 2011 Tsunami there was a lot of down playing the situation of Fukushima. It became apparent in the summer of 2011 that Fukushima is a bigger disaster than Chernobyl.

Meanwhile back in the US, there was very little about the true nature of Fukushima and all the news channels were making a circus with Casey Anthony.

That is not a coincidence.

a reply to: canucks555

And I will proudly and passionately shill for the highest bidder!

a reply to: Rob48

A lot of more "fringe" posters on ATS seem to automatically disbelieve anything that a scientist says (because scientists are all in the employ of the evil government, or something), however strong the evidence, but will swallow anything some anonymous person posts on YouTube without question.

That is exactly the people I am talking about. They have what I call "conspiracy disease". They are so wrapped up in the information and possible conspiracies that it almost becomes a religion, or new way of thinking.

Yet we skeptics are the bad guys?

originally posted by: sheepslayer247

What I have a problem with myself is that there seems to be a lot of people that are willing to believe is some esoteric topics so much that they are willing to distort facts and take things out of context so that the issue fits their belief system.

i have to say that that is not something limited solely to 'esoteric topics' and the like.

it basically permeates every aspect of the boards/life/people in general.

no matter that they witnessed, saw or experienced said 'thing' whilst under the influence of something ..... sometimes even just their own 'mental influence(s)' and/or tendencies.

a reply to: cestrup

So you want to ban freedom of speech and discussion?

Great plan!

Fact is not everyone is going to believe in a theory or idea.

Deal with it!

originally posted by: 12m8keall2c
the situation is such that, just as in real life, the community is so widely-diverse there will never be an 'absolute consensus' either way on anything.

the downside to that, and again just as in real life, you'll always have those who are so steadfast in their own beliefs [belief system] that you'll never sway their minds to even consider something outside 'their box'.

just a simple fact of life, i guess.

???

so many we see 'labeled' as 'shills' here on the boards are simply nothing more than folks who either Can demonstrate the details and specifics of 'their view or position',, as well as those who simply refuse to accept or even consider 'outside possibilities'.

???

LIFE

I simply strive to recognize the same and the difference between the two... and ignore those who simply will not open their mind'seye to another perspective.

???

Can I give you a star?

a reply to: cestrup

My only contribution to the thread

You either get used to the same few people arguing on every thread, or you give up ATS.

I was enjoying a thread immensely for five pages full of new information, and then five people started arguing semantics with each other....it quickly degenerated to name-calling, and intellectual insults for another five pages.
It seems to happen to a lot of good threads. Makes me wish those people would take it to the UTU section, and let the tread progress.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Tucket

Not alway's as most shil will play along until a specific danger thread or subject is noted and will create an online persona, sometimes there are two or three operatives whom use the same avatar and they can only be spotted by studieing there different use of sentence or seeming different attitudes which can not be decisive in detecting them but certainly can be useful.
Most skeptics on the other hand will show a level of opposite and true belief but then there are also the breed whom simply want to win an argument and so will try to pull a thread apart not because they are shil or sceptic but because they enjoy doing so, regard such as classy troll's and they can be hard to detect but when millions of people visit a site and hundred's of thousand's are members of a site then they are among them as are shil's and other intelligence operatives, psychopaths, sociopaths, paranoid shizoid's and all manner of people, among them though are the truth seeker's and they are why these site's exist, even some of the shil are truth seekers though they won't tell there boss.

Point taken. To be honest I dont pay much attention to shills or skeptics. Ive called out a shill in the chemtrail forum before as it gets pretty ridiculous in there. Most of the time Ill just bypass the skeptic's comment, BUT, there is one skeptic that I do pay attention to and respect his opinions as he seems pretty intelligent and keeps it civil. On several occasions hes convinced me to come over to the "skeptic side."

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: cestrup

Fact is not everyone is going to believe in a theory or idea.

Its not about believing, its about being open to other possibilities and at least considering circumstancial evidence.
In most cases, the skeptic does neither of these things.

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
a reply to: Rob48

A lot of more "fringe" posters on ATS seem to automatically disbelieve anything that a scientist says (because scientists are all in the employ of the evil government, or something), however strong the evidence, but will swallow anything some anonymous person posts on YouTube without question.

That is exactly the people I am talking about. They have what I call "conspiracy disease". They are so wrapped up in the information and possible conspiracies that it almost becomes a religion, or new way of thinking.

Yet we skeptics are the bad guys?

I've been here long enough to believe there are "shills" as well as "skeptics" in very much the same way there are "conspiracy theorists" and "domestic terrorists" with the declared goal of destabilizing the government and any or all authorities,along with it.

originally posted by: Tucket

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: cestrup

Fact is not everyone is going to believe in a theory or idea.

Its not about believing, its about being open to other possibilities and at least considering circumstancial evidence.
In most cases, the skeptic does neither of these things.

Sometimes facts jump in the way of being "open minded". Continuing to be openminded in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary seems a bit simpleminded.

originally posted by: Tucket

Point taken. To be honest I dont pay much attention to shills or skeptics. Ive called out a shill in the chemtrail forum before as it gets pretty ridiculous in there.

I thought a "shill" was supposed to mean a paid disinfo agent, or something, not just somebody who doesn't believe in the crackpot theory du jour?

Personally I avoid the chemtrail forum altogether because, really, what is there to say about an imaginary topic? But if I voiced that opinion then no doubt I would be called a shill, rather than simply somebody who knows a bit about atmospheric physics and can spot a load of bull puckey when he sees it.

If I'm a shill, all I can say is that the pay is lousy.

originally posted by: jrod
'

Forum sliding and topic dilution are common practices.

So the "shills" will argue with you thus bumping the thread while somehow simultaneously "sliding" the topic off the front page.

I've never been able to understand the logic of this charge.

originally posted by: Tucket

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: cestrup

Fact is not everyone is going to believe in a theory or idea.

Its not about believing, its about being open to other possibilities and at least considering circumstancial evidence.
In most cases, the skeptic does neither of these things.

There is being open and so open ones brains fall out.

Everyone is diffrent and everyone has certain degrees of how open they are.

Eg
Im open to the idea a lot of the western politicans are in one big all controling group that includes bankers and big buisness who use our democratic process are a sham.

What im not opn too is they sre secret lizard aliens that live in a hollow earth and came here on the moon which is a spaceship

This subject gives me shills running up and down my spine.