Questionable Behavior of 'God's Prophets' from the Abrahamic Religions

a reply to: FlyersFan

No where in the text does it imlpy rape, because rape was against the Law. Captured virgins had two choices: indentured slavery under the protection of the Law, or marriage. Even in cases of arranged marriages, the bride had the final say (as was the case with Rebecca and Isaac).

The humiliation in Deuteronomy 21 was the shame of divorce, not rape. In those days as was the case in early America, a divorced woman was taboo. Like I said, the Law prohibited rape under penalty of death. The Israelites that took the Land entered the Land with a respect for the Law.

Also notice that Deut 21 states that the woman had to shave her head before living with her future husband. It does not state that the man was allowed to forcfully shave her head. This further implies choice. The woman set aside her captivity garbs because as a married woman, she was considered free.

God never gives His people the right to rape.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

The "law" says if a girl is raped the rapist must pay the Father a certain amount of money, then marry the girl...

Its hardly forbidden... And even if it was, there are always loopholes in old laws

Women were considered part of the spoils of war

a reply to: Akragon

Then it goes on to say that if the dowry is refused, the rapist is put to death.

You left that part out.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: FlyersFan

No where in the text does it imlpy rape, because rape was against the Law. Captured virgins had two choices: indentured slavery under the protection of the Law, or marriage. Even in cases of arranged marriages, the bride had the final say (as was the case with Rebecca and Isaac).

The humiliation in Deuteronomy 21 was the shame of divorce, not rape. In those days as was the case in early America, a divorced woman was taboo. Like I said, the Law prohibited rape under penalty of death. The Israelites that took the Land entered the Land with a respect for the Law.

Also notice that Deut 21 states that the woman had to shave her head before living with her future husband. It does not state that the man was allowed to forcfully shave her head. This further implies choice. The woman set aside her captivity garbs because as a married woman, she was considered free.

God never gives His people the right to rape.

No, he just sits idly by and lets it happen no matter how much they beg for mercy.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

That is completely beside the point....

There is never an excuse or payment that can be made to anyone that justifies rape...

You said God never condones rape... but in fact this god says its fine if a monetary payment is made which is accepted.

DO you think the money said rape victim's father receives makes the girl feel better?

IF you were a victim of rape when you were younger, and the rapist gave your parents $10000 dollars, and they agreed that said money is sufficient for their forgiveness... would you feel any better about it?

a reply to: Akragon

Its not all that different than today. Charges are either filed or they are not. Rather than money, its jailtime. The only difference is the marriage clause. The point is, there is a penalty for rape in the bible. God did not condone it.

And Deuteronomy 21:10-14 is not about rape.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

And in some cases the rapist gets off free... and the victim is left with life long emotional scars...

Some even become suicidal...

Face the facts... this god has little problem with rape, pillaging... destroying, murdering the innocent which include men women and children...

And yes its much different from today... back then women could be sold off as a commodity... women could be raped and the only thing required was a payment to the Father... no compensation for the victim, aside from the fact that they must marry the rapist afterwords

Again, you can defend it all you want, anyone who can read and is not blinded by the complete faith in the words of that book can see exactly what I and others have been saying...

This is NOT Gods word... period

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Women didn't have a choice whether to marry or who to marry. Marriages were either arranged by the parents, who you obeyed or were stoned to death, or they were kidnapped and forced into "marriage," which is no different than rape.

a reply to: Akragon

And gods principles should be infallible and unchanging. God shouldn't have to change with the times. If he was real he wouldn't need to he would be a guiding light thru all of human history. Not a flip flopper who follows present day morallity.

1 Samuel 15
2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

Yahweh orders the slaughter of children even though they had nothing to do with waylaying the Israelites coming from Egypt. Children did not serve in the army, they were innocent of any wrongdoing, yet Yahweh orders the slaughtering of them. Yahweh has innocent blood on his hands, yet people still worship him as though he is the definition of love and mercy. Why? Because they fear him and what they believe he will do.

Saul decided to spare some sheep and cattle so Yahweh denied him his kingship. Saul showed mercy and was punished for it. What merciful and loving god would do something like that much less order the murder of innocent women and children?

Matthew 5
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you

See the problem here?

James 1
27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

How about now?

Yahweh went against everything Jesus and our Father stood for. Killing innocent women and children is not looking after them.

a reply to: Rex282

The creator God is 100% in control of everything . . .

That would include the Bible and how it is considered, by the religions based on it, to be The Word of God.
I think we have a paradox here.
God inspired it to be written.
God intervened historically to preserve it.
God inspires great men of God to read it and interpret it, and so we have these wonderful religions that are benefited by knowing the mind of God.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

And in some cases the rapist gets off free... and the victim is left with life long emotional scars...

Some even become suicidal...

Face the facts... this god has little problem with rape, pillaging... destroying, murdering the innocent which include men women and children...

And yes its much different from today... back then women could be sold off as a commodity... women could be raped and the only thing required was a payment to the Father... no compensation for the victim, aside from the fact that they must marry the rapist afterwords

Again, you can defend it all you want, anyone who can read and is not blinded by the complete faith in the words of that book can see exactly what I and others have been saying...

This is NOT Gods word... period

God doesnt tell anybody to rape or murder. Both of those crimes had penalties. War, capital punishment and murder are three separate things. The fact is, that Israel was never commanded to accumilate sex slaves in a society where prostitution and adultery where illegal. It isnt God's fault that things happen the way they do. Man has freedom of choice.

And who are you to decide what is God's word or not? As stated before, if Moses was such a wicked man, why did Jesus stand next to him at the transfiguration??? Why did Jesus honor the OT as the word of God?

If you think Yahweh was such an evil God, what are you doing following the words of His Son?

The dissatisfaction you are expressing right now is nothing more than a few mis-interpreted verses and a sour case of culture shock. The real issue that you need to work out is reconciling the unavoidable connection between Jesus' Messianic ministry and the entire OT Law.

What was it that Jesus said? Something like, "Remove the log from your eye before removing the dust from your brother's."

You like to pass the blame around alot, but the truth is that if I am following a corrupt God, then Jesus is no better.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Women didn't have a choice whether to marry or who to marry. Marriages were either arranged by the parents, who you obeyed or were stoned to death, or they were kidnapped and forced into "marriage," which is no different than rape.

See, now that is where you are wrong. Rebecca was given the choice to marry Isaac. That was the Hewbrew culture.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

It wasn't a woman's or the suitor's choice for that matter. It was always the choice of the father.

Genesis 29 16
Now he had two daughters, the name of the elder was Lia: and the younger was called Rachel.
17 But Lia was blear eyed: Rachel was well favoured, and of a beautiful countenance.
18 And Jacob being in love with her, said: I will serve thee seven years for Rachel thy younger daughter.
19 Laban answered: It is better that I give her to thee than to another man; stay with me.
20 So Jacob served seven years for Rachel: and they seemed but a few days, because of the greatness of his love.
21 And he said to Laban: Give me my wife; for now the time is fulfilled, that I may go in unto her.
22 And he, having invited a great number of his friends to the feast, made the marriage.
23 And at night he brought in Lia his daughter to him,
24 Giving his daughter a handmaid, named Zelpha. Now when Jacob had gone in to her according to custom when morning was come he saw it was Lia:

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

God doesnt tell anybody to rape or murder. Both of those crimes had penalties. War, capital punishment and murder are three separate things. The fact is, that Israel was never commanded to accumilate sex slaves in a society where prostitution and adultery where illegal.

God doesn't... Your book says otherwise though... this so called god commands his followers to conquer and destroy, rape and pillage... kill the innocent and spill the blood of animals

As I've said you just refuse to face the facts...

that is your issue, not mine...

It isnt God's fault that things happen the way they do. Man has freedom of choice.

Which includes the freedom to misrepresent God in these texts you hold so dearly

And who are you to decide what is God's word or not?

I am who I am... and I am free to choose who or what I believe is the word of God, and the words of a tyrant

As stated before, if Moses was such a wicked man, why did Jesus stand next to him at the transfiguration???

Maybe you should actually think about that for a minute... How would the writer of these books know it was Moses?

Did they wear name tags?

It could have been anyone standing with Jesus...

Why did Jesus honor the OT as the word of God?

He used the "holy" texts that were available to convey the message he brought... HE was brought up as a Jew, learned the beliefs... what else should he use... Vedic texts perhaps?

he changed the rules, and broke the laws within it... simply because they were mans laws, Not Gods

If you think Yahweh was such an evil God, what are you doing following the words of His Son?

Im not... I follow Jesus, and yahoo isn't his Father... sorry to say...

The dissatisfaction you are expressing right now is nothing more than a few mis-interpreted verses and a sour case of culture shock. The real issue that you need to work out is reconciling the unavoidable connection between Jesus' Messianic ministry and the entire OT Law.

That is your opinion and you're welcome to it... There is no way to reconcile Jesus and the OT... HE quotes select verses in the gospels... In fact Jesus cherry picked scripture better then anyone because he knew what was right and what was not...

What was it that Jesus said? Something like, "Remove the log from your eye before removing the dust from your brother's."

Tell ya what... Figure out a way to explain the Father of Jesus telling people to murder/pillage and conquer the land... destroying the lives of innocent people... then I will remove the dust from my eye...

Unfortunately the OT God has a tree in his... good luck with that, you'll need it

You like to pass the blame around alot, but the truth is that if I am following a corrupt God, then Jesus is no better.

Which only goes to show you don't know Jesus... or the OT for that matter....

And im not blaming anyone... its all there in black and white...

The OT god, is NOT God... and is nothing worthy of such a title...

a reply to: Akragon

I love watching you guys argue over which parts of the bible are true or count. :p


The hilarious part is that you both realize some of its wrong, but both hold onto what you agree with as the one part that has remained true through out history. I don't see how you could be so close to seeing that it's all just anchient mans attempts to explain the unexplainable and still not see that's what it all is.

If part of it's been changed or edited. Then there is absolutely no way to know it all hasn't. So any one speaking as if they know the TRUTH! Is fooling themselves. And looking ridiculous while they do.

a reply to: ArtemisE

I will present you with the same challenge I've given to others....

Find something in the gospels that should not be followed...

a reply to: Akragon

How about.


Worship your master as if he were Christ himself. It's Paul talking to slaves I Ephesians ( I think) that's off the top of my head. I'm sur I could do better.

originally posted by: ArtemisE
a reply to: Akragon

How about.


Worship your master as if he were Christ himself. It's Paul talking to slaves I Ephesians ( I think) that's off the top of my head. I'm sur I could do better.

heh...

You're gonna have to brother... Paul did not write a gospel...

Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John... that's what you have to deal with

I'll be waiting... oh, and watch those parables

a reply to: Akragon

skepticsannotatedbible.com...

While I'm sure some are exaggerated. Not all are and there's about 100. :p. and you just wanted 1.