WAR: Emotionless Marine Look: The Private American War

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Don't start with these lies, marg. The vast majority of Vietnam Veterans made successful adjustments to civilian life and the leftist media painted us as walking time bombs.

GradyPhilpott]

Lies Grady, yeah I forgot you are the only surviving vet that has the authority to talk about, I was a teen in the seventies I know what vietnam did to our puertorrican vets, ask my father, we had a lot of the forgotten ones in my littler island but occurs we puertorricans are probably below you any way. Right? So they don't count.

Yeah Grady you know it all

This is what you said:

Originally posted by marg6043
This is very sad but many of the wounded treated in US hospital in Germany were reported as problems none physical but mental.

Very soon we are going to have a high incident of spouse abuse and child abuse withing the troops after coming from Iraq.

Like Vietnam most of these troops will be Dependant on antidepressant for everyday dealings with life, occurs now we have a very good assortment of of pills for then to be Dependant on.

The future of our returning troops with mental problems is going to be something that our society will have to learn to live with it.

This was my response:

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Don't start with these lies, marg. The vast majority of Vietnam Veterans made successful adjustments to civilian life and the leftist media painted us as walking time bombs.

Never again should America treat it's returning veterans as we were treated and starting with these demonization campaigns is grossly unfair to the veteran and symbolic of the utter lack of conscience of the left in America.

These men are the absolute cream of the American crop and those who perpetrate these lies are just the opposite.

These are the facts:

Findings from the National Vietnam Veterans� Readjustment Study
A National Center for PTSD Fact Sheet
by Jennifer L. Price, Ph.D.

Introduction
The National Vietnam Veterans� Readjustment Study (NVVRS) was conducted in response to a congressional mandate in 1983 for an investigation of posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and other postwar psychological problems among Vietnam veterans (Kulka et al., 1990a, Kulka et al., 1990b). The purpose of the NVVRS was to obtain accurate prevalence rates of postwar psychological problems in order to serve the needs of the nation�s veterans. The NVVRS used a multimethod assessment approach (e.g., self-report, clinical interview) to study representative national samples of Vietnam veterans and their peers. Participants were grouped according to their involvement in the Vietnam war, including Vietnam theater veterans (i.e., men and women who served on active duty in Vietnam, Laos, or Cambodia), Vietnam era veterans (i.e., men and women who served on active duty during the Vietnam era but not in the Vietnam theater), and nonveterans or civilian counterparts (i.e., men and women who did not serve in the military during the Vietnam era).

What were the major findings of the NVVRS?
The most important overall conclusion of the NVVRS was that across over 100 life-adjustment indices, the majority of Vietnam veterans appeared to have successfully readjusted to postwar life, and the majority were at the time of the study experiencing few symptoms of psychological disorders. However, the NVVRS also revealed that a substantial minority of Vietnam theater veterans were suffering from a variety of psychological problems and experiencing a wide range of life-adjustment problems (e.g., marital problems, work difficulties). Unfortunately, only a small number of these veterans actually sought treatment from mental health providers.

www.ncptsd.org...

Where are your facts, marg?

You expect her to post some?

She will not because she knows that she is wrong, she has been shown she was wrong and will not reply to you.


She still hasn't answered whether her husband is as anti-war as her. Military man that he is, I bet he has a deferent perspective than she does.

Originally posted by Frith
I wouldn't consider taking part in a completely immoral war courageous. Thats just me though.

You mean the immoral war the left is waging against our own soldiers and against anything that is American?... Yep, that's not courageous at all...

Originally posted by Muaddib
You mean the immoral war the left is waging against our own soldiers and against anything that is American?... Yep, that's not courageous at all...

Protesting is now considered an act of war? News to me.

Back home when I was in high school in the seventies we had one came to school to talk about what he went through, the thing that I remember the most is that he was an heroin addict and he say it just like that, he also blamed the government for the troubles they had to got to get treatment.

I remember the beggars in my Island, standing in the corners with missing legs or arms, and my mother will tell me that they were from Nam.

At least I hope that the disable soldiers from Iraq does not have to go through that painful experience that I witness when i was growing up in the seventies.

And edsinger what are you now Grady's echo? or his twin Ed you are becoming copy.

[edit on 1-12-2004 by marg6043]

the "look" is a surface reflection that the person has accepted that they could die in the very next second. Nothing else matters, they have already be pre-conditioned to death and to accept that death will come. Even if he kills this enemy, the next one might take his life, even if he drives down the road THIS time and makes it, next time the bomb might go off right next to him. Even though he saw with his own eyes the enemy die from his own gunshoot, next time it might be the enemy who see HIM die.

This is the "stare".

to break it, the solider must have something to "live" for. And in time, when he feels safe and is no longer being shot at, or bombs exploding, or having to live through the trauma of being next to a guy who's head just exploded. When normal life can take center stage then the "stare" will eventually go away.

Why do you think a lot of vets fall in love with nature when they come home, they enjoy hiking or just sitting outside, or to go fishing or work with animals. They need to come right with GOD and all of GOD's creation. This gives them balance and helps replace the violence and hatered and destruction that they had been a part of.

Originally posted by Frith

Originally posted by Muaddib
You mean the immoral war the left is waging against our own soldiers and against anything that is American?... Yep, that's not courageous at all...

Protesting is now considered an act of war? News to me.

Protesting and treason can be a fine line when you are calling for your country's defeat and doing everything within your power to see your own countrymen be killed because you fail to support them when they are doing their job.

Originally posted by marg6043And edsinger what are you now Grady's echo? or his twin

Ed you are becoming copy.

[edit on 1-12-2004 by marg6043]

NO we just both recognize a bleeding heart liberal without the first clue what goes on around her. BTW, how does your husband being the veteran he is feel about the Iraq war?

When I was over there, kids were breaking down all over the place. Two soldiers in my platoon had to have the bolts from their rifles taken away, and I had to keep them. There was a suicide in the Artillery Battery I was supporting in Balad. I lot of people just couldn't hack it over there. I don't think of them as weak, or hold any malice towards them, I hope they get the help they need. I'm sure some were malingering, but the whole atmosphere put a strain on everyone.

Grady - I was reading the information from your link and I noticed this:

King, King, Gudanowski, and Vreven (1995) examined war-zone variables and their relationships to PTSD symptoms. Exposure to the malevolent environment was strongly associated with PTSD symptom severity. Other war-zone stressors such as perceived threat and atrocities/abusive violence were also linked directly to PTSD severity.

It seems pretty evident that some post-combat psychological treatment will be necessary for some of the guys coming home. Is treatment part of their military or VA benefits? Do you think the military should require the troops to seek some counseling regardless - similar to the counseling cops are required to attend after a particularly heinous crime or accident?

B.



[edit on 12/1/04 by Bleys]

Originally posted by curme
I lot of people just couldn't hack it over there. I don't think of them as weak, or hold any malice towards them, I hope they get the help they need. I'm sure some were malingering, but the whole atmosphere put a strain on everyone.

I agree with you, my father used to said that war does a lot of things to people, we as humans have a braking point, on some is thiner than in others.

But I do remember the misery that our vets in PR had to go through, I remember the suicide rate was high also.

I think I am going to have a Nice conversation with my father about the 60s I bet he remembers many things and he will be able to talk about it after 45 years.

Hope this might have some help with some people there was a programe on last night I think this is along the same lines. also some very handy links and numbers at bottom of the page.

for the people in this seris these people never got any help from the army after they were left to their own devise they said it might be down to the drugs they have been given while in Iraq and this is what made them "messed up"

BBC TV DYING DOESN'T STOP AFTER WAR

[edit on 1/12/2004 by SE7EN]

Originally posted by SE7EN
Hope this might have some help with some people there was a programe on last night I think this is along the same lines. also some very handy links and numbers at bottom of the page.

BBC TV DYING DOESN'T STOP AFTER WAR

Thanks for the link, I remember after the first gulf war we have some incidents after our troops came back, I was working for family services at the time and we have a lot of spouse abuse and child abuse. We always had problems with the families taking in consideration that soldiers go on extended periods of time away, but during that time it was really a bad time for military families, after the troops returned.

I am one of the lucky ones, my husband brought a lot of pictures of death, but beside some minor anxiety problems he was fine. My children were to yound to remember.

Glad I could be of help what I found bad while watching it was one guy said do you have any advise for people going to join up. He said DONT this guy had sleeping problems not neating his food headaches all sort. Just hope my cus doesn't suffer the same thing but he seems ok.

Originally posted by SE7EN
Glad I could be of help what I found bad while watching it was one guy said do you have any advise for people going to join up. He said DONT this guy had sleeping problems not neating his food headaches all sort. Just hope my cus doesn't suffer the same thing but he seems ok.

Well some will have problems some other will be ok after a short period of time, and then you have the ones that are silence and one day they just snap.

I think the best thing is to get help even if cus tell you he is ok, make sure that if he has been in the war zones he gets counseling.

He's still in the army he's over in Nrth Ireland some place we would know if there was anything wrong plus he has a good group of mates with him aswell out their. But am surrprised by how this is a world wide thing untill now I thought oh its just a uk thing. silly to think this yes but more information on this needs to be brought into the light.

Originally posted by Bleys
It seems pretty evident that some post-combat psychological treatment will be necessary for some of the guys coming home. Is treatment part of their military or VA benefits? Do you think the military should require the troops to seek some counseling regardless - similar to the counseling cops are required to attend after a particularly heinous crime or accident?

I was not trying to say that there will not be problems. I think you can safely say that 100% will have some problems. My objection was to the blanket statement regarding the incidence, prevalence, and severity that marg made that was completely unfounded by data and common sense. Even good events cause stress and problems in some people.

The military seems to have a more progressive view of the effects of stress, but I am not involved in that area. The VA has provided a lot of help for me since the early eighties. Before that it was criminal the way returning vets who complained of stress related problems were treated.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I was not trying to say that there will not be problems. I think you can safely say that 100% will have some problems. My objection was to the blanket statement regarding the incidence, prevalence, and severity that marg made that was completely unfounded by data and common sense. Even good events cause stress and problems in some people.

No - Actually I appreciated your post. I'm glad the Military is recognizing the psychological impact that war has. I was just curious if treatment was voluntary or required. And I agree with you that it is a small minority that actually experience severe problems. I just want to see every effort made to assist our soldiers once they are home regardless of how small the problem is. They deserve no less than the best treatment.



B.

You know, I wonder what the % of contractors that come back have problems? Surly it would be higher in the military but from the guys I knew that came back form the first Gulf War, most adjusted fine. Sure they had issues when the Tornado sirens went off during Tuesdays test, but they NEVER complained.