China summons US envoy over cyberspying charges

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Pot calling the kettle black!

The US stinks of hypocrisy!!

Over the last few years, the US seems to have really ramped up pissing off as many people and foreign nations as it possibly can, even more than usual.
I get the impression there are some pushing for a shooting war with both Russia and China and are doing whatever they can to ramp up aggression with both.

As for this accusation, not only is it only hypocritical in the extreme, but the reality is China doesn't really to invest a lot of time and effort hacking US military secrets, when they know they can just buy the info from the Israelis.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
Hey guys... I just found the full text indictment.

Cryptome 56 Page PDF of full text Federal Indictment

It includes color photos of them, and much more detail about what they did. Specifics of companies, amount of data taken, what it contained and on and on. It was a massive thing going here, by any description one would want to use.

Do take a bit of time to read over the original papers there though, it tells the tale and WOW... Now I see better why both countries are getting very serious over it.

That was a good read although I did not find anything connecting the named persons with the AKAs, nothing at all.

So many executives just seemed to open all sorts of executables, as if they were totally unaware of computer security in its most basic form.

The NSA does this, big business does this and now the Chinese seem to be really good at it as well.

Sadly we do not live in a world where honesty counts for much.

The Chinese stole thousands of emails but the NSA reading all of those same Emails and millions more is not theft?

P

a reply to: pheonix358

While I disagree, with much of what you stated...you have pointed out some very good points.

However, the Chinese are not very good at spying, obviously...they've been caught and it didn't take long to catch them. I just wish they would hire more "professional hackers" to assist them. Them being the US government.

How else would you catch a criminal? Hire one and keep him/her close on the hip. I'm sure someone would sign up for the job.

That's about all I agree with though.

a reply to: pheonix358

What businesses did the NSA try to put out of business by sharing the information with US corporations?

You refuse to answer a single question I ask because it proves your position is untenable.

double post...sorry

originally posted by: Silicis n Volvo


Pot calling the kettle black!

The US stinks of hypocrisy!!

OMG get a frikkin clue.





Everything shown is a counterfeit from China.




Every single one.




China seems to lack a certain moral fiber.



But to spend decades saying "prove it" about stealing trade secrets,
and then when the day comes they reverse their position and say
"omg but betty and bert do it too!" is tantamount to the logic a six
year old child would use.


China seems to lack a certain moral fiber.



Mike Grouchy

a reply to: mikegrouchy

America is made of pure moral fiber (made in china), but regardless, china did win right? They can be the ones laughing on the hill looking down say, "Oh yea, sorry, wont do it again, yea yea, your doing, oh nooo ,yea yea, no"... They will get away with it wont they? And then what?

originally posted by: ImaFungi
a reply to: mikegrouchy



America is made of pure moral fiber (made in china), but regardless, china did win right? They can be the ones laughing on the hill looking down say, "Oh yea, sorry, wont do it again, yea yea, your doing, oh nooo ,yea yea, no"... They will get away with it wont they? And then what?

China won what?

a reply to: pheonix358

That was a good read although I did not find anything connecting the named persons with the AKAs, nothing at all.

...and you're not going to, either? This is the indictment. Finding of cause for arrest and to go forward. It's not meant to be a trial.

I doubt they are ever arrested, but then coming to America wasn't likely high on their personal to-do lists anyway. The rest is between nations.

a reply to: mikegrouchy

Geesh....you didn't go there! I see more counterfeit items here in Los Angeles, than I've seen anywhere else...even in New York. Our seaport has a lot to do with that. They let everything in and what they don't let in, they make in downtown Los Angeles sweatshops.

If you ever come here, take a stroll along LA's garment district (Los Angeles Street) and pick your fraudulent choice of Freaking FRAUDULENT-Brand names. It's insane. I hope you know how to pick out the right ones.

Clue: you won't find real designer brands in downtown Los Angeles.

The claims of the Chinese threatening to take action or impose sanctions against the US for accusations made against these Chinese hackers/thieves, will go nowhere.

Nowhere

Watch the markets...they tell everything...everything!

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Likewise, I didn't find any connections either. I think with time, more info will come out.

It ain't over yet...it's just the beginning. If the accused can be found...they will be arrested.

a reply to: ThePublicEnemyNo1

I think the indictment was specific to the street address of the offices they were using to hack from in Shanghai though. The service in the People's Liberation Army seems clear enough and certainly short of laying out everything that was an intelligence operation to collect, it sounds like they likely have a solid case.

Like you note though, it'll go nowhere, and that's all the more puzzling for why the big public stink is being made of it. Obama was just over there trying to make nice and Kerry has been as well. Funny way to work on good relations. I mean, pursuing a problem or not? The degree of public being used and responded with is notable.

originally posted by: ImaFungi
a reply to: mikegrouchy

America is made of pure moral fiber (made in china), but regardless, china did win right? They can be the ones laughing on the hill looking down say, "Oh yea, sorry, wont do it again, yea yea, your doing, oh nooo ,yea yea, no"... They will get away with it wont they? And then what?

In America one can criticize the government openly.

Hell one can even call the sitting President "The AntiChrist"
and still go to work in the morning, or continue to own a
business. Even use the law to enforce one's own contracts.


Not so in China.

Dissidents who say things like "maybe there is too much
bribery", or "the local police seem a little corrupt" are
frequently imprisoned. Sometimes indefinitely. And
sometimes dissidents just "disappear" all together.









I mean, do you _really_ think that there is any level of
equivalency between the righteousness of Americas'
open society and China's closed system?

If the leaders or important military figures of China
had to withstand one tenth of one percent of the
criticism our leaders do, their freakin heads would explode.


Mike Grouchy

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I imagine the playing nice did not go as planned. I really am baffled by the actions our President chooses. I think this needed to be done, but not exactly in so public a form. China is big on saving face, this won't go over well.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

It seems all the public is ever used for anymore is for rousing the senses. I'm still hopeful however.

If this is true (all clues point to it being factual), I hope they catch those -SNIP's-!

ETA
After typing -SNIP's-, I thought better of it. I was using a bad word and thought it best to replace my expletive with a -SINP-. Sorry if I offended anyone. That was not my intent.

originally posted by: ThePublicEnemyNo1
a reply to: mikegrouchy

Geesh....you didn't go there! I see more counterfeit items here in Los Angeles, than I've seen anywhere else...even in New York. Our seaport has a lot to do with that. They let everything in and what they don't let in, they make in downtown Los Angeles sweatshops.

If you ever come here, take a stroll along LA's garment district (Los Angeles Street) and pick your fraudulent choice of Freaking FRAUDULENT-Brand names. It's insane. I hope you know how to pick out the right ones.

Clue: you won't find real designer brands in downtown Los Angeles.

The claims of the Chinese threatening to take action or impose sanctions against the US for accusations made against these Chinese hackers/thieves, will go nowhere.

Nowhere

Watch the markets...they tell everything...everything!

More logic of the six year old.
"But bert and betty do it!"

... So you admit that they are guilty then,
since blame shifting seems to be the counter argument.


Mike Grouchy

a reply to: mikegrouchy

Some people here are so hellbent on wanting to hurt the US they can't think clearly. As I pointed out the Chinese have destroyed thelives of MILLIONS of Americans. They don't care about that though.

Unfortunately the lack of proof that the US is not doing the same thing doesn't mean all that much, in the end they will just trade the spies for spies so whats the big deal?

a reply to: mikegrouchy

I totally admit they are guilty. I see it every day! It's a mess here in Cali...a mess. However, there are others within our governments (Federal and State) that are facilitating this crap.

Honestly, it's a mess in Los Angeles County mostly. A real crying shame. I'm glad I live in Pasadena...we have our own government and there's just certain crap that won't fly around here. Never has...never will.

Come correct or don't come at all!