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The Biggest LIE that The Devil ever tricked people into believing: "God is The Destroyer"

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posted on May, 19 2014 @ 04:26 PM
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a reply to: minusinfinity

Who created the clay?
Tell me who or what you think did.
We might just agree on something.
Anyway, it's just an analogy.
The problem is why there is evil.
That inferior pot-making clay might be perfectly fine for what it normally does, which is to form a layer over the hard rock core of the planet.
edit on 19-5-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 19 2014 @ 05:25 PM
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Oh dear, why does everyone fixate upon punishment and use it as a reason to down religion?

God is not a monster. He gives us the chance to choose him or reject him.

If you believe in God it should be because you follow the light and love goodness, kind acts and everything that is positive about spirituality.

While hell may be real, it's only there for those who reject all of the above and have allowed themselves to be taken over by darkness abd negativity.

We live this life with free will so that we can choose for ourselves to be bearers of light and love or magnets for darkness and negative energy.

You can live by the principles of light / dark , good / evil without religion, but in doing so you miss out on all the fun spiritual stuff, like miracles and a feeling of connectedness with something far greater and more wonderful than you could ever be.

edit on 19-5-2014 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 05:25 PM
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originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: deadeyedick




GOD either is in control of all things or he is not.


Isn't there some middle ground? Part of the problem with organized religion is the all or nothing approach. Black and white, heaven or hell. All powerful or doesn't exist leaves little room either.



Its more complicated than that. its religion that wants to keep it simple (with absolutes). That way there are only two answers to every question. Which is close mindedness.



Maybe?

The fringe of both sides plays a very important role in all this.


What really gets your blood pumping the most?
edit on 19-5-2014 by deadeyedick because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 07:21 PM
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a reply to: deadeyedick


What really gets your blood pumping the most?

Injustice, murder and war. Thats the required answer. Sex drugs and rock n' roll is the other extreme. Thank God I survived that war for my soul.



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 07:47 PM
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originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

People go to Hell for rejecting God's forgiveness and trying to work their own way into Heaven. A fallen being cannot produce righteous works, he must be born again first, through Christ
Which one is it?
Do we "produce righteous works" or not.
If we do, then doesn't that qualify us for heaven?
Forgiveness comes from stopping sinning, there isn't any other method for forgiveness.


We produce righteousness (good fruit) when we believe that Jesus paid for our sins.

First comes forgiveness, then comes the remission of sin. "Forgive them for they know not what they do". Jesus forgave His persecutors even as they continued to sin. Eternal life is a work of God, not man. Forgiveness always comes first, then we reciprocated with the same righteous love that God has shown us.

If you reject God's forgiveness, you have no righteous love to reciprocate with.



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 08:08 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

We produce righteousness (good fruit) when we believe that Jesus paid for our sins
Except you just made that up.
I'm talking about according to the Bible.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jesus paid for sins.
There isn't even any reason to.
That is a product of faulty logic based on bad interpretation of the verses.
When you stop sinning, God forgives you of your past sins, and he does it very simply, by forgetting them.

First comes forgiveness, then comes the remission of sin.
Those two words are translated from the same Greek word.

Jesus forgave His persecutors even as they continued to sin.
He could have meant the whole world, for all we know.

Eternal life is a work of God, not man.
Do not be deceived, sinners will not go to heaven.
(paraphrase of 1 Corinthians 6:9)

Forgiveness always comes first, then we reciprocated with the same righteous love that God has shown us.
Feel free to post your supporting verses on that.
Anyway, if what you are proposing is true, then isn't that by human effort, and by selfish motives?

If you reject God's forgiveness, you have no righteous love to reciprocate with.
But that only applies if your forgiveness scheme was the way it really works.
You need to just face the facts, that your human emotions is not where righteousness comes from, it comes from God, and not by an intellectual assent that there is a God, but having an actual spiritual connection with God, and that is not based on the idea that you don't have to be righteous, but can palm off your own works of merely believing as a substitute.
edit on 19-5-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 08:21 PM
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a reply to: jmdewey60

Here we go again. Im not even going to bother showing you how scripturally wrong you are. Its the same redundant talking points with you: first you question my claims, then you deny the scripture I back it up with, then you go on and on about how everything in the bible is nothing but "silly-puddy-symbolism" (because you mold it as you see fit).

If you are right in your beliefs, then you are the only one going to heaven, because I cant think of a soul that can compete with your version of logic.



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 08:33 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

If you are right in your beliefs, then you are the only one going to heaven, because I cant think of a soul that can compete with your version of logic.
This is what makes us different.
You believe in salvation by correct theology.
I believe that the righteous are saved, and the sinners are lost.
There is no other way that is spelled out in the Bible.



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 08:53 PM
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originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

If you are right in your beliefs, then you are the only one going to heaven, because I cant think of a soul that can compete with your version of logic.
This is what makes us different.
You believe in salvation by correct theology.
I believe that the righteous are saved, and the sinners are lost.
There is no other way that is spelled out in the Bible.



No, I believe we are all sinners, even you. And if you deny you are a sinner, then you have been decieved. Jesus payed for our freedom so that we are forgiven. If you honor His sacrifice with faith, then you are credited with His righteousness, just as Abraham was. It is only after being born again that you can do righteousness.

And what do you mean "correct theology"? Do you expect me to knowingly follow incorrect theology?



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 09:52 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

And what do you mean "correct theology"? Do you expect me to knowingly follow incorrect theology?
You present a theory on salvation, so to you, that serves the purpose of a theology.
Then you say that only by believing in that theology can you be saved.
So essentially, you are preaching salvation by correct theology.
The bases for this theory that you worship is so many steps of logic that starts with fragments of verses that you reconstruct into a new scripture.
There is no actual biblical teaching of payment for sins.
Now in the Old Testament, there was a system described where you can make payment to a person you have harmed, but I don't think that is the same thing that you are talking about.

If you honor His sacrifice with faith, then you are credited with His righteousness, just as Abraham was.
You are mixing things up here.
Abraham was not considered to be righteous by believing something.
He was considered righteous for doing as he was told by God, even though there was not a law that said you had to do those things.
Here is another thing that is just made up, and is not taught in the Bible, that we can somehow be credited with Jesus' righteousness.
We may want to be righteous as Jesus was righteous, but his righteousness cannot somehow be given to us.
That was his.
We need to live out our own righteousness, while we can strive to model ours after Jesus'.



edit on 19-5-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2014 @ 04:36 AM
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Hahaha god can't get good clay. He must shop at walmart. Getting stuck with the cheap imported clay instead of the good stuff. :-) a reply to: jmdewey60


edit on 20-5-2014 by ThoughtIsMadness because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2014 @ 06:01 AM
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a reply to: ThoughtIsMadness

Getting stuck with the cheap imported clay . . .
I set up my analogy to exclude that.
The point is using what you find.
To me, that is the situation at the beginning of events in the Genesis story.



posted on May, 20 2014 @ 06:32 AM
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My brain hurts when I read things like the OP. I can't understand how people chose one religion and then stick with it and believe everything about it .
Religion is it's own biggest enemy because it is preached to humans, of which the majority are as gullible as it gets.
You can tell them anything and they'll believe it because there is a clause somewhere that if you don't then something bad will happen.

Meanwhile in the real world, good and evil do not exist like black and white. Good and Evil are all in the eye of the beyholder. What is good to me may be bad to you. If a wife-beater and murderer saves your life, is he good or evil?

The problem is religion has been so misunderstood by all its followers. I personally hate religion but am open to the idea that a Jesus existed who was a man [human] with a lot of insight and wisdom. Like Buddha or Gandhi. He then got "chinese whispered" out of all proportions. This phenomena can even be seen today with Elvis or Michael Jackson. In 1000 years, they will be far greater than they had ever been.
Now imagine this in a world without easy communication. Every little tribe was adding a bit more.

This Jesus probably didn't expect people to be as stupid as they turned out to be, he only wanted to spread an important message, that peace and love are important, that you should forgive and stop greed and murder.
This is really good advice and if everyone would heed it, the world would be a better place.

But people are people and they don't all get it. They add rules and punishments and make it all far more complicated than necessary. Then they start policing their own mess and dole out punishment for disbelievers [islam] or invent a hell [christianity] when it isn't their place to do anything like that.

The reason organised religion is a FAIL of epic proportions is that there is visible, checkable evidence that nothing happens if you don't believe.
For witnesses ask Atheists and open your eyes to other humans who live peacefully and happy without religion [There is a very small village in Peru as just one example] and of course see all the animals who live and never have to worry about any higher powers whatsoever.

It's like listening to someone banging on how real Santa Claus is, showing you a Coca-Cola advert as evidence. What do you say to someone like that?

edit on 20-5-2014 by Hecate666 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2014 @ 07:21 AM
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a reply to: Hecate666

Then they start policing their own mess and dole out punishment for disbelievers [islam] or invent a hell [christianity] when it isn't their place to do anything like that.
I agree that people should not take it apon themselves to "punish" unbelievers.

Christianity did not invent hell.
The Medieval mind did make it out to be a lot more unpleasant than it was thought of earlier, though.



posted on May, 20 2014 @ 10:00 AM
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We are saved by grace through Jesus perfect sacrifice, we accept it by faith not proof.
Believing is not enough, showing the fruit of the Spirit is the proof, applying mercy forgiveness and love is the proof, is the fruit of the Spirit.

God is not a destroyer, God is a judge.
God will judge humanity for their sin, in the Old Testament God sometimes judged on the spot, possibly He judges on the spot today.
If a judge passes a death sentence is he a destroyer or carrying out the law.

If humanity operates within the law we expect fair judgement, is it fair?
God will be fair according to the law.

If you dont believe in God or believe your life doesnt deserve judgement then ......

I became a Christian because I understood I deserve judgement, Jesus took my judgement.
The OT explains what a blood sacrifice represents



posted on May, 20 2014 @ 12:28 PM
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a reply to: borntowatch

The OT explains what a blood sacrifice represents
Oops, your post ended rather abruptly.
Were you going to continue that thought, or were you going to look up a verse to insert and then realized there wasn't any to support your idea about a supposed "blood sacrifice"?

God will judge humanity for their sin . . .
The New Testament says that Jesus is judge.

Jesus took my judgement.
I'm pretty sure that it is the other way around, that we would like to be judged according to how Jesus was judged, which was manifested (as being positive) by his being raised from the dead.

We are saved by grace through Jesus perfect sacrifice, we accept it by faith not proof.
Does "proof" include the Bible mentioning this?
What exactly do you have faith in, a salvation theory, loosely based on some ideas that you think that the Bible talks about?
edit on 20-5-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2014 @ 01:18 PM
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Wow you are calling me to justify myself yet offer nothing to state your position

Yes God will judge, I am one of those funny Trinity believers, you know, Jesus is God
1I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: 2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction

Want some more verses?

God's Righteous Judgment
…15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
Should I go on?

As for the OT blood sacrifice, why go on, its well documented, isnt it
You can read about it here but I am sure you will disagree, thats fine
www.quodlibet.net...
Its painfully clear to me

As for your comment
"I'm pretty sure that it is the other way around"
I dont understand your position so wont I comment


and finally as I stated clearly, there is no proof, other than the written word and eye witness accounts, that are easily dismissed if you dont want to accept them.
I have faith they are true so its proof to me and millions of others
What do I have faith in? Salvation theory??? Loose ideas???
No, I have faith, every bit of it in Jesus being God, God forgiving me, the Spirit growing me



posted on May, 20 2014 @ 01:45 PM
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a reply to: jmdewey60

And Mr jmdewey60
if you dont mind and its not to off topic

Who is and what is God
Who is and what is Jesus and
Who is and what is the Holy Spirit
What is your faith in?


I dont understand your theology at all
Thanks


*edit*

As you have stated you are an ex? SDA, can I assume this theology is your theology

1). THE ATONEMENT IS NOT COMPLETE

"The blood of Christ, while it was to release the repentant sinner from the condemnation of the law, was not to cancel sin....It will stand in the sanctuary until the final atonement" Patriarchs and Prophets, P. 357 (emphasis added).

"Now while our great High Priest is making the atonement for us, we should seek to become perfect in Christ" The Great Controversy, p. 623 (emphasis added).

"...instead of coming to the earth at the termination of the 2300 days in 1844, Christ then entered the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary to perform the closing work of atonement preparatory to His coming" The Great Controversy, p. 422 (emphasis added).


2). BELIEVERS ENTER INTO A JUDGMENT OF WORKS WHICH DETERMINES THEIR SALVATION

"At the time appointed for the judgment.... All who have ever taken upon themselves the name of Christ must pass its searching scrutiny. Both the living and the dead are to be judged "out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works" The Great Controversy, P. 486 (emphasis added).

"Every case had been decided for life or death. While Jesus had been ministering in the sanctuary, the judgment had been going on for the righteous dead, and then for the righteous living" Early Writings, p. 280 (emphasis added).

"So in the great day of final atonement and investigative judgment the only cases considered are those of the professed people of God" The Great Controversy, p. 480 (emphasis added).

"as the books of record are opened in the judgment, the lives of all who have believed on Jesus come in review before God. Beginning with those who first lived upon the earth....Every name is mentioned, every case closely investigated. Names are accepted, names rejected. When any have sins remaining upon the books of record, unrepented of and unforgiven, their names will be blotted out of the book of life, and the record of their good deeds will be erased from the book of God's remembrance" The Great Controversy, p. 483 (emphasis added). See John 5:24; Romans 8:1


3). WORKS PLUS GRACE EQUALS SALVATION

"The judgment is to set, the books are to be opened, and we are to be judged according to our deeds" Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, p. 100 (emphasis added). Remember, this is a judgment of works for salvation, not for rewards.

"While good works will not save even one soul, yet it is impossible for even one soul to be saved without good works" Selected Messages, bk. 1, p. 377 (emphasis added).


4). SATAN BEARS OUR SINS

"It was seen, also, that while the sin offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scapegoat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed" The Great Controversy, p. 422 (emphasis added).

"Their sins are transferred to the originator of sin" Testimonies for the Church, vol. 5, p. 475.


5). CHRISTIANS WILL STAND BEFORE GOD WITHOUT CHRIST'S INTERCESSION

"Those who are living upon the earth when the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator" The Great Controversy, p. 425 (emphasis added).

"When Jesus ceases to plead for man, the cases of all are forever decided. This is the time of reckoning with His servants" Testimonies for the Church, vol. 2, p. 191 (emphasis added).

Because they will have to stand before God without a mediator Adventists believe that they must be perfect before Jesus returns:


6). WE CAN BE SINLESS

"Those only who through faith in Christ obey all of God's commandments will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression" Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 6, p. 1118 (emphasis added).

"To be redeemed means to cease from sin" Review & Herald, September 25, 1900 (emphasis added). I John 1:8,10


7). THE SABBATH IS THE SEAL OF GOD AND THOSE WORSHIPING ON SUNDAY WILL RECIEVE THE MARK OF THE BEAST

It is well known that Adventists teach Sabbath-keeping. What is not so well known is that they teach that it is the seal of God and that those who worship on Sunday before the Rapture will receive the mark of the beast. Ultimately, according to Adventist theology, salvation in the last days boils down to the day you worship on!


8). SOUL SLEEP

Seventh-day Adventists, like Jehovah's Witnesses, teach that when a believer dies his soul "sleeps". Some believe that you entirely cease to exist.


9). A DENIAL OF THE BIBLICAL DOCTRINE OF HELL

Seventh-day Adventists do not teach the biblical doctrine of hell. They, like Jehovah's Witnesses, teach that unbelievers will be annihilated and that hell is temporary.




....Just curious as to your beliefs
edit on b2014Tue, 20 May 2014 14:01:51 -050053120142pm312014-05-20T14:01:51-05:00 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2014 @ 02:40 PM
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a reply to: borntowatch

Wow you are calling me to justify myself yet offer nothing to state your position
I'm pretty sure I did.
Like when I said, ". . . we would like to be judged according to how Jesus was judged, which was manifested (as being positive) by his being raised from the dead."
This is in accordance with the Suffering Servant story in Isaiah 53, which happens to be what Paul is alluding to when he said that Jesus was killed according to scripture.

Yes God will judge, I am one of those funny Trinity believers, you know, Jesus is God
If you were a Trinitarian in the orthodox sense of the term, then you would realize that these are three distinct persons.
Normally, I would think, when you say, "God", you mean God the Father.

Want some more verses?
What was the first verse that you quoted supposed to prove?

Should I go on?
Everything Jesus does is as an agent of God, so what's the point?
Jesus still does it.

As for the OT blood sacrifice, why go on, its well documented, isnt it
I was left hanging on that on the thread, "America: The cursed burnt offering for the age to come." where over two weeks ago, it ended with me saying, ". . . there is a severe scarcity of verses that affirm this theory or its corollary or its additional stipulation."
The point being that I don't think there is a convincing argument that Jesus was in fact some sort of sacrifice of the type described in either the Old Testament or other religions that kill animals as a sort of appeasement to an angry deity.

As for your comment
"I'm pretty sure that it is the other way around"
I dont understand your position so wont I comment
I think that is pretty sad if you cannot get that, and it has to be an indictment against the brain washing that you have received, that the truth has been substituted by fables.
edit on 20-5-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2014 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: borntowatch

....Just curious as to your beliefs
I post all the time about what I believe.
I also mentioned that I deviate quite a bit from what might be considered standard SDA.
There isn't a creed that you have to subscribe to in order to be a member.
You become a member by first being baptized by someone authorized to do that by the church.
Then the congregation that you want to join votes to have you accepted in.

What is your faith in?
The New Testament says to have faith in God.
My point earlier was that it is a bit misdirected to have faith in theoretical theology.

. . . an ex? SDA . . .
No, I am currently a member.

. . . can I assume this theology is your theology
Some of it is "theology" and some of it is personal beliefs of influential persons from the history of the church.
Like I said, my own personal beliefs may deviate, and that is allowed, as long as we recognize that our beliefs should be in harmony with the Bible.

if you dont mind and its not to off topic
slightly, as so is this conversation, but I was responding to an earlier poster who was dragging out a lot of personal theory about salvation.
edit on 20-5-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



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