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Obama.Care’s penalties on hospital re-admissions will kill off the sick and elderly

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posted on May, 19 2014 @ 02:36 AM
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a reply to: coastlinekid

We've been enslaved for quite sometime. Now our leashes are a bit shorter and work load is a little heavier.

Meanwhile the fat cats keep getting fatter.




posted on May, 19 2014 @ 10:40 AM
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a reply to: whyamIhere

I concur 100%

I work at a hospital and can tell you that most physicians are taking early retirement. We haven't seen this much turn over in the 13 yrs I have been here.

JT



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 11:15 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

YES REALLY BECAUSE IT IS REALLY HAPPENING, I HAD A FRIEND SENT HOME TO DIE BECAUSE MEDICARE WOULD NOT PAY FOR HIS ANGIOPLASTY WHICH IN THIS DAY AND AGE IS A ROUTINE PROCEDURE. his family was told to keep him medicated with pain pills until he died and not to call ambulance. his doctors told us the procedure would save his life but their hands were tied it took him two years of being in agony to die because a beaurocrat decided his life wasn't valuable never ming the 40 years he put movey into medicare through construction company he owned before he retired



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

While I was looking for this information:


It also looks like hospitals are doing a better job of keeping patients away after they've been discharged. The 30-day hospital readmission rate for seniors in the traditional Medicare program — a measure of how many of those patients return to a hospital after an initial visit — held steady at 19.5 percent between 2007 and 2011, and then fell to 18.5 percent in 2012 and 17.5 percent in 2013, HHS said. That adds up to 150,000 fewer hospital readmissions between 2012 and 2013 for traditional Medicare beneficiaries.

source - Washington Post

I came across a link to something interesting regarding your re-post of the Palin-backed myth of "Death Panels."


(Reuters Health) - If you are one of the estimated 70 percent of Americans who have not documented your end-of-life healthcare preferences, Republican Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma hopes a cash incentive will prompt you to do the paperwork.

Under his newly introduced Medicare Choices Empowerment and Protection Act, seniors could pocket up to $75 for completing advance directives. Directives are written instructions in which people specify what healthcare actions should be taken if they cannot speak for themselves.

“It’s just smart,” says Coburn, a family physician. “This is good medicine for a doctor to know what a patient wants.”

The bill, co-sponsored by Democratic Senator Chris Coons of Delaware, would encourage people on Medicare to register advance directives with the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS). Medicare beneficiaries would receive a one-time payment of $75 for creating an online directive, or $50 for creating one manually in 2015. The payment from CMS would come either as a check or direct deposit.

Inflation would determine payment in subsequent years.

source - Reuters

Instead of paying the doctors to counsel people to fill out the advance directives, which you've stated constitutes a "death panel," this bill proposing paying seniors to accomplish the same thing. Are you going to similarly decry this bill with a misleading title such as, "Republican Congressman Proposes Bill to Pay Seniors $75 to Commit Suicide?"
edit on 2014-5-19 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

The real debate going on right now is about fine tuning the payment penalty calculation of the HRRP to adjust for sociodemographic factors beyond the control of the hospitals so that they're not being unfairly penalized. It also bears mentioning that critical access hospitals and post-acute care providers are exempted and that unrelated readmissions are supposed to be exempted as well (pursuant to the ACA) but as of a couple of months ago, this hadn't yet been implemented by the CMS.

There are no "death panels" so what "Medicare outrage" am I supposed to be justifying? They're trying to simultaneously increase quality to drop the readmission rate (a very good thing) and trim the expense stemming from excess readmission (also a good thing). There's nothing about the HRRP that prevents a patient from being readmitted to the hospital — Medicare will still pay their bill.

No Death. No Panel. No Limits. No Outrage.



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian




No Death. No Panel. No Limits. No Outrage.


There is plenty of outrage.

I don't know if it's justified....That remains to be seen.



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 02:43 PM
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originally posted by: whyamIhere
a reply to: theantediluvian




No Death. No Panel. No Limits. No Outrage.


There is plenty of outrage.

I don't know if it's justified....That remains to be seen.


I was referring specifically to the use of 'outrage' in this statement :


You still haven't submitted any justifications for this Medicare outrage.


Which is using the definition of "outrage" as "an act of wanton cruelty or violence; any gross violation of law or decency." as opposed to "a powerful feeling of resentment or anger aroused by something perceived as an injury, insult, or injustice." (definitions from dictionary.com)

I'm sure you are correct about people being outraged but I think they are being misled. I'm not saying that the ACA/PPACA/ObamaCare is perfect, desirable or even that it doesn't disproportionately benefit insurance companies (because I believe it does) but I don't think that irrational arguments based on hysteria-inducing propaganda benefit anyone anymore than propaganda statements like "if you like your healthcare, you can keep it."
edit on 2014-5-19 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

You ever hear of the British version of Breaking Bad?

Walter goes to the doctor, finds out he has cancer, gets attended on the National Health Service.

Tell us again about Obamacare, like it isn't the same financial institutions running the show now.

Tell us again about Death Panels, like insurance companies didn't use cost benefit analyses before.

Obamacare was a half baked programme to start with, but vested interests and their useful idiots have sabotaged it so they get richer and Obama gets the blame.



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 07:59 PM
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I hate Obamacare as much as anyone. But the Death Panels argument against it is ridiculous. Death Panels already exist by Insurance Companies. So protest Death Panels run by both the government and Insurance companies and I'm with you. But when you act like Obamacare is doing something different than insurance companies, then you're just being a spin meister to promote your anti Obamacare agenda. I don't like it either but Death Panels already exist!! It isn't NEW with Obama care.


originally posted by: FarleyWayne
a reply to: xuenchen

Star-n-Flag to Xuenchen ... ( for doing a great job keep up with the Roller-Coaster-Care )

AND

When ( and If ) THIS starts Kicking-In ???

-
SUSPICION: Who will want to be a ... Health-Care-Worker ???

SUSPICIOUS-OBSERVATION: Death ... AND Destruction ???



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 08:17 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Having done some research on hospital technology, I know that many hospitals already put reducing re-admission rates near the top of their priority lists. To put financial penalties on re-admissions simply mean the hospitals will take measures to reject or otherwise avoid patients outright and like the OP says, kill them indirectly. There is already enough pressure on reducing re-admissions and therefore any sort of intervention to force the issue simply screws things up. Yet another case of government medicine gone wrong. I simply don't get how people think the health care system is capitalist... more government money is in the US health care system than any other country in the world... so I can't begin to imagine what angle these comments are coming from.

I did a web search for "re-admission priority hospitals" and what do you know one of the first results in the very first sentence of the article summary says "Reducing hospital readmission rates is a national priority;"
circoutcomes.ahajournals.org...

This is a case of a giant ogre trying to fix a broken clock with a hammer.



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 08:40 PM
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a reply to: wayforward

The cost of healthcare in the US far exceeds the rest of the industrialized world. The argument that government involvement in healthcare drives up prices is null and void.



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 08:50 PM
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originally posted by: BravoBull
I hate Obamacare as much as anyone. But the Death Panels argument against it is ridiculous. Death Panels already exist by Insurance Companies. So protest Death Panels run by both the government and Insurance companies and I'm with you. But when you act like Obamacare is doing something different than insurance companies, then you're just being a spin meister to promote your anti Obamacare agenda. I don't like it either but Death Panels already exist!! It isn't NEW with Obama care.


originally posted by: FarleyWayne
a reply to: xuenchen

Star-n-Flag to Xuenchen ... ( for doing a great job keep up with the Roller-Coaster-Care )

AND

When ( and If ) THIS starts Kicking-In ???

-
SUSPICION: Who will want to be a ... Health-Care-Worker ???

SUSPICIOUS-OBSERVATION: Death ... AND Destruction ???

The problem is that rather than fix the problem, Obamacare is cementing in stone they continue. He is giving the green light for Insurance companies to continue it.



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 09:23 PM
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I made that in 2012 and as the sourcing at the bottom indicates, it's off the 2013 proposed White House Budget for projected costs and economic assumptions they program in for it. The Presidential budget packages can be most useful for the fact they show all the line items (and they almost tax Excel to it's limits) going back generations worth of time.

Now it's perfectly fair to say Insurance companies were gorging themselves on the public's expense. In fact, I think the numbers show they have been. It's also very fair to say big medical for-profit facilities have all but wiped out the charity and General hospitals while big Pharma has insured big treatments or cures WILL be a life changing event in cost alone, atop enduring whatever condition brought matters to that point.

I don't think Government takeover was ever the answer or can ever stand for the long term as being the answer. Especially not a Government like this whose attitude toward money is that millions are little, billions are noticeable and trillions....once hard to imagine...are several to a year to spend...so where is the incentive to ever cost control?

We could 'free market starve' (boycott) the insurance companies, before it became law to pay them. We cannot starve Government when it backs the same actions the insurance companies were doing at their worst, with the full force and power of the State. Gov't minds it's money poorly and ours even worse.

It's a fine mess indeed and the true living example of 'out of the frying pan to jump into the fire'.



posted on May, 19 2014 @ 09:50 PM
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One huge problem is that, for most people, the vast majority of healthcare expenditures on their behalf is/will be for keeping them alive another month or two after they've already reached a point of being an invalid.

We must do something about spending huge amounts on hospitalization and the most expensive IV meds for folks who are already in a nursing home or are senile or chronically at death's door. If their family has millions and wants to spend their own money--fine, let 'em put it up front--but no more sucking it out of the pool of money available for Medicare.

The treatment of heart attacks, strokes, diabetic emergencies, pneumonia, broken bones, etc--now that's the kind of stuff that needs to be paid for----and is why we've been paying the Medicare Tax most of our lives.



posted on May, 20 2014 @ 12:54 AM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Exactly what many of us said he was pushing is proven to be very real. We see evidence in the waiting lists for veterans, and we see it here as well. The death panels are real. I wonder how many of those that claimed they weren't will come into the thread and admit they are wrong. I don't think I'll hold my breath.



posted on May, 20 2014 @ 01:00 AM
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a reply to: xuenchen

PTB knew the baby boomers were going to crash the system that is why we have this lie. How many more lies and hidden things will come out foolish progressives.




Whatever progressives touch fails. Education,Government,Your Home.......If you let this mindset in be ready to face failure. Learn about the progressive PTB so you can at least keep it out of your home. Ever wonder why so many young people are living at home.................Parents bought into it.



posted on May, 20 2014 @ 01:02 AM
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a reply to: Mountainmeg

That's exactly the threat - the "quality of life" garbage which means the government decides who deserves to live and who doesn't. it's utilitarian bioethics, which ought to worry any sane person! This is exactly the sort of thing people like Hitler wanted.



posted on May, 20 2014 @ 01:12 AM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
*snip*
Instead of paying the doctors to counsel people to fill out the advance directives, which you've stated constitutes a "death panel," this bill proposing paying seniors to accomplish the same thing. Are you going to similarly decry this bill with a misleading title such as, "Republican Congressman Proposes Bill to Pay Seniors $75 to Commit Suicide?"


Encouraging people to fill out directives for what happens if they can't speak for themselves has nothing at all to do with people being denied care because they are "too old", or otherwise deemed "unworthy" because of some BS "quality of life" rating. Your research isn't on topic.



posted on May, 20 2014 @ 08:56 AM
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originally posted by: Tusks
One huge problem is that, for most people, the vast majority of healthcare expenditures on their behalf is/will be for keeping them alive another month or two after they've already reached a point of being an invalid.

We must do something about spending huge amounts on hospitalization and the most expensive IV meds for folks who are already in a nursing home or are senile or chronically at death's door. If their family has millions and wants to spend their own money--fine, let 'em put it up front--but no more sucking it out of the pool of money available for Medicare.

The treatment of heart attacks, strokes, diabetic emergencies, pneumonia, broken bones, etc--now that's the kind of stuff that needs to be paid for----and is why we've been paying the Medicare Tax most of our lives.


I am in the UK and as such can use our "free at point of use NHS" However, I do agree with the above, at what point do you stop spending £$10000's to keep a person artificially alive? We all have a natural lifespan and I personally would not want £1000's spent on me in my advancing years, if that money could be used to save much younger people, with far more years ahead of them than I did.

I currently have a chronic condition that has severely impacted on my quality of life and may never be "cured" and I must cost the NHS quite a bit, now I have paid taxes and insurances at quite a high level for over 20 years, but even now, as a 46 yr old, if I was told that my treatment was at the cost of giving a baby lifesaving treatment, I'd want to bow out....I seriously mean that. Yes, it would be hard on my family, but really, I have thousands spent maintaining my "half life" when that money could be spent giving a person a chance of a long and complete life..really, it's a no brainer.

I know this won't be a popular view and I do agree that not everyone will think like me and may well prefer to maintain whatever life they have for as long as is possible, but sadly, the example given in the OP of a 105 year old woman, is a bit ridiculous in my mind, seriously, how much longer can she live, even with constant medical intervention. Yes, she may have paid more taxes than anyone else in the US, and certainly more than the newborn baby requiring open heart surgery, but the sad truth is, whether in the UK, the US or anywhere else, healthcare funding is not an infinite, bottomless pit and sadly, some tough choices do sometimes have to be made.



posted on May, 20 2014 @ 11:35 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Don't be ridiculous. The GOP can't even be bothered with helping in local elections, much less paying people to post. On the other hand....there's sure a lot of obots about.



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