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Conspiracy Theorists Vindicated: HAARP Confirmed Weather-manipulation Tool

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posted on May, 18 2014 @ 04:45 PM
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originally posted by: old_god
a reply to: Phage

Phage I am of the opinion that it was a military and/or research tool where they may have inadvertently stumbled upon a side affect i.e. weather change (or manipulation).

If it's an opinion then it's not a fact. Surely the whole point of ATS is take some questionable evidence, action, statement etc and try and dig into it to find out the truth. Where is the evidence to back up the opinion


Most discoveries tend to be accidental however to think that some nefarious group wanted to manipulate the weather is a little far fetched however I do not discount (in the face of climategate) that current and some past organisations have tried to weaponize aspects of the weather, directly or indirectly.

The video vaguely covers what HAARP as used for however we will never now its true purpose as it most likely was used by the military for advanced communications or some well funded research group (or both).

Whoa whoa whoa, that is a cheap trick: to wrap up "something" with the blanket "it's military (ie by implication secret)" and then link this to a "conspiracy" in a way that the secret/cover-up proves the conspiracy is true.

As someone has quite logically stated elsewhere : if any government can truly affect the weather then that country will never experience bad weather ever again. It's weather would be a perfect, low insurance, high farm yields variety placing that country at the top of the economic league. It's competitor countries would suffer horrendous weather bankrupting its insurance market, decimating it's crops and bring about economic collapse.

Have we seen this anywhere ?




posted on May, 18 2014 @ 04:55 PM
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Maybe they shut id down because it stopped working for some anomalous reason



posted on May, 18 2014 @ 05:18 PM
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originally posted by: DeadSeraph
Any ground launched ICBM's sent in the direction of the U.S from Russia or China wouldn't be flying over the Atlantic, but the Pacific, and if HAARP was capable of generating a strong enough disruption it could shield both the U.S and Canada much more effectively than interceptors or satellite based technologies by providing a "blanket" over the region.

The conspiracy theorist in me thinks this may have been the real reason the U.S air force was so interested in playing with the ionosphere.


In fact ICBM's from Russia would come straight over the Arctic over Canada.

I bet that somebody "suggested" theoretical potential utility about doing "something" about ICBM's to certain generals and Congressdroids in order to secure funding.

I don't think it's possible, though there is some utility it ameliorating "space storms" which could negatively affect communication and early warning satellites. Might it 'discharge' EMP or energetic charged particles from high-altitude bursts too? Maybe.



posted on May, 18 2014 @ 05:21 PM
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originally posted by: MrConspiracy
a reply to: Rob48

I was reading something a while back and managed to find it:

Linky : www.livescience.com...

"Heki analyzed data from more than 1,000 GPS receivers in Japan. He discovered a rise of approximately 8 percent in the total electron content in the ionosphere above the area hit by the earthquake about 40 minutes before the temblor. This increase was greatest about the epicenter and diminished with distance away from it."

Now, I'll be the first to admit I have a limited understanding of this kind of stuff, but your post reminded me of this. Are we so sure there's no link to what happens on earth and the ionosphere?


There's been some suggestion that there are obscure piezoelectric forces in ground stresses which create electromagnetic anomalies. By necessity this is difficult to observe and controversial. I think the causal link would be one way---the earth stresses create effects which are observable in the ionosphere, but ionospheric effects have no influence on seismic activity. Haven't ever heard of any link between auroras and earthquakes.


edit on 18-5-2014 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2014 @ 05:27 PM
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a reply to: Nochzwei




Maybe they shut id down because it stopped working for some anomalous reason


It could have as long as you consider unable to pay for it an anomalous reason.



posted on May, 18 2014 @ 05:40 PM
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a reply to: mbkennel

Yes, see the link to the paper I posted above. The cause and effect work in the other direction, ground -> ionosphere.


And meanwhile this thread with its utterly FALSE headline sits on the front page of ATS gathering flags...


(post by yourignoranceisbliss removed for a manners violation)

posted on May, 18 2014 @ 05:55 PM
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originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: mbkennel

Yes, see the link to the paper I posted above. The cause and effect work in the other direction, ground -> ionosphere.


And meanwhile this thread with its utterly FALSE headline sits on the front page of ATS gathering flags...


The best thing about a thread like this sitting on the front page is that if the reader of said thread continues reading, he or she will soon learn the information presented by the OP is outlandish, easily debunked and total garbage.

A thread like this serves the public a favor in teaching readers more about the truth while exposing nonsense of the likes in the OP.

A long time ago I used to get upset a little when a illogical thread got on the front page. That was until I saw that it had the effect of showing all who rush to read it the truth.

The OP was wrong. Is wrong. And the information he presented was misunderstood by him.

This thread shows all those reading it why and how that information is ridiculous.

Threads like these belong on the front page. I promise.

But I understand your disappointment.

MM
edit on 18-5-2014 by Mr Mask because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-5-2014 by Mr Mask because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2014 @ 06:04 PM
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Interesting...
Per patent 4,686,605, Eastlund; Bernard J. inventor, August 11, 1987.
patft.uspto.gov...,686,605.PN.&OS=PN/4,6 86,605&RS=PN/4,686,605

Why natural gas?


The generation of electricity by motion of a conducting fluid through a magnetic field, i.e., magnetohydrodynamics (MHD), provides a method of electric power generation without moving mechanical parts and when the conducting fluid is a plasma formed by combustion of a fuel such as natural gas, an idealized combination of apparatus is realized since the very clean-burning natural gas forms the conducting plasma in an efficient manner and the thus formed plasma, when passed through a magnetic field, generates electricity in a very efficient manner. Thus, the use of fuel source 42 to generate a plasma by combustion thereof for the generation of electricity essentially at the site of occurrence of the fuel source is unique and ideal when high power levels are required and desirable field lines 11 intersect the earth's surface 40 at or near the site of fuel source 42. A particular advantage for MHD generators is that they can be made to generate large amounts of power with a small volume, light weight device. For example, a 1000 megawatt MHD generator can be construed using superconducting magnets to weigh roughly 42,000 pounds and can be readily air lifted.


And "musings" from the inventor, himself.


This invention has a phenomenal variety of possible ramifications and potential future developments. As alluded to earlier, missile or aircraft destruction, deflection, or confusion could result, particularly when relativistic particles are employed. Also, large regions of the atmosphere could be lifted to an unexpectedly high altitude so that missiles encounter unexpected and unplanned drag forces with resultant destruction or deflection of same.

Weather modification is possible by, for example, altering upper atmosphere wind patterns or altering solar absorption patterns by constructing one or more plumes of atmospheric particles which will act as a lens or focusing device.

Also as alluded to earlier, molecular modifications of the atmosphere can take place so that positive environmental effects can be achieved. Besides actually changing the molecular composition of an atmospheric region, a particular molecule or molecules can be chosen for increased presence. For example, ozone, nitrogen, etc. concentrations in the atmosphere could be artificially increased.

Similarly, environmental enhancement could be achieved by causing the breakup of various chemical entities such as carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, nitrous oxides, and the like. Transportation of entities can also be realized when advantage is taken of the drag effects caused by regions of the atmosphere moving up along diverging field lines. Small micron sized particles can be then transported, and, under certain circumstances and with the availability of sufficient energy, larger particles or objects could be similarly affected. Particles with desired characteristics such as tackiness, reflectivity, absorptivity, etc., can be transported for specific purposes or effects. For example, a plume of tacky particles could be established to increase the drag on a missile or satellite passing therethrough. Even plumes of plasma having substantially less charged particle density than described above will produce drag effects on missiles which will affect a lightweight (dummy) missile in a manner substantially different than a heavy (live) missile and this affect can be used to distinguish between the two types of missiles.

A moving plume could also serve as a means for supplying a space station or for focusing vast amount of sunlight on selected portions of the earth.

Surveys of global scope could also be realized because the earth's natural magnetic field could be significantly altered in a controlled manner by plasma beta effects resulting in, for example, improved magnetotelluric surveys.

Electromagnetic pulse defenses are also possible. The earth's magnetic field could be decreased or disrupted at appropriate altitudes to modify or eliminate the magnetic field in high Compton electron generation (e.g., from high altitude nuclear bursts) regions. High intensity, well controlled electrical fields can be provided in selected locations for various purposes. For example, the plasma sheath surrounding a missile or satellite could be used as a trigger for activating such a high intensity field to destroy the missile or satellite.

Further, irregularities can be created in the ionosphere which will interfere with the normal operation of various types of radar, e.g., synthetic aperture radar.

The present invention can also be used to create artificial belts of trapped particles which in turn can be studied to determine the stability of such parties.

Still further, plumes in accordance with the present invention can be formed to simulate and/or perform the same functions as performed by the detonation of a "heave" type nuclear device without actually having to detonate such a device.

Thus it can be seen that the ramifications are numerous, far-reaching, and exceedingly varied in usefulness.


And that's just one of his patents.
But then again, this is just a proposal of possibilities from the inventor, which does not necessarily mean they all panned out "in the field". (Heh heh, get it??
)



posted on May, 18 2014 @ 06:09 PM
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a reply to: jude11

MOST

interesting !! Quick question to all involved in the you tube video

.. "to what purpose is there, really, to manipulate the weather AT ALL !!!??!!! Please feel free to expound on any details you might have ..thanks!"




posted on May, 18 2014 @ 06:14 PM
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a reply to: Komodo You're having a parade...it starts to rain. You're having a picnic and... it starts to rain. You're invading Russia and ...winter.



posted on May, 18 2014 @ 06:17 PM
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a reply to: Flux8

Why natural gas?
Because his patent involved system which required a huge amount of power. Not the 5 diesel generators that HAARP has.


But then again, this is just a proposal of possibilities from the inventor, which does not necessarily mean they all panned out "in the field".
Eastlund was not the inventor of HAARP. He patented an ionosopheric heater which would use MHD generators, not HAARP. You should also read up on what the purpose of the "claims" section of a patent is about. It covers your bases. If someone actually does what the claims in your patent say your invention can do, you can nail them for infringement. That's why Eastlund made his invention sound sort of like a Swiss army knife.
www.patentlens.net...



posted on May, 18 2014 @ 06:20 PM
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originally posted by: Mr Mask

originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: mbkennel

Yes, see the link to the paper I posted above. The cause and effect work in the other direction, ground -> ionosphere.


And meanwhile this thread with its utterly FALSE headline sits on the front page of ATS gathering flags...


The best thing about a thread like this sitting on the front page is that if the reader of said thread continues reading, he or she will soon learn the information presented by the OP is outlandish, easily debunked and total garbage.

A thread like this serves the public a favor in teaching readers more about the truth while exposing nonsense of the likes in the OP.

A long time ago I used to get upset a little when a illogical thread got on the front page. That was until I saw that it had the effect of showing all who rush to read it the truth.

The OP was wrong. Is wrong. And the information he presented was misunderstood by him.

This thread shows all those reading it why and how that information is ridiculous.

Threads like these belong on the front page. I promise.

But I understand your disappointment.

MM


Front page...hmmm? Why?

Because people are sick and tired of "said" debunkers taking over a thread which has a shred of proof and steering the thread away from the actual OP.

The entire thread has been taken over by self proclaimed engineers and scientists that are completely ignoring the OP...

Patent US4686605

""Method and apparatus for altering a region in the earth's atmosphere, ionosphere, and/or magnetosphere"

AND...

""Weather modification is possible by, for example, altering upper atmosphere wind patterns or altering solar absorption patterns by constructing one or more plumes of atmospheric particles which will act as a lens or focusing device. Also as alluded to earlier, molecular modifications of the atmosphere can take place so that positive environmental effects can be achieved."
US 4686605 A" - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com..."

This is from the actual patent so what is left to discuss but the lies we have been told from Govt. and Military as to its capabilities?

I watched this thread go off topic and expected it to do so because of the types of people I have mentioned.

So why the flags and front page?

Because whatever else many have attempted to do in this thread, people know the truth.

Flags or not, I don't really care. People are getting sick and tired of thread attacks when the truth is in black and white and its getting tiresome actually. But expected.

*Snip*

Peace

edit on 5/18/2014 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2014 @ 06:27 PM
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a reply to: jude11

This is from the actual patent so what is left to discuss but the lies we have been told from Govt. and Military as to its capabilities?

That patent is not for HAARP.
It is for a system magnitudes more powerful than HAARP and a patented invention need not do what it is claimed to do. Eastlund was not a climatologist or meteorologist. His claims about manipulating the ionosphere were speculation. His claims about manipulating the jet stream in order to affect weather are evidence of this. The position of the jet stream does not determine weather patterns. The position of the jet stream is determined by conditions in the lower atmosphere, not the upper atmosphere.



posted on May, 18 2014 @ 06:43 PM
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a reply to: Phage
Yeah, I'm still reading, and learning. Fascinating; I Iove this stuff.

I get the impression that, at least from his patents, he was pandering to military interests to get those $$ for funding; There's an overemphasis on military applications. But that's very understandable. He does lay out the nitty gritty principles and theory to support the project as a whole, though.

The bottom line is that the military did fund the project, which means they liked what they read/heard, from a military aspect. Now that they are pulling funding, due to budgeting concerns, I think we can assume they got what they wanted, didn't get as much as they'd hoped for, or somewhere in between. Cost/benefit, right? That doesn't mean there isn't anything to be added to the pool of knowledge in general physics! The more I read of the possible ramifications of the project as a whole (HAARP) I really hope scientific interests will step up to the plate and invest!

As for the generators, I thought that another reason to use natural gas was to use it as a source for artificially infused plasma, hence the "plumes" he's talking about. Maybe I'm mistaken.

I truly think this project has/had so much potential.

I guess I'm flip-flopping.
edit on 18-5-2014 by Flux8 because: I speel badly



posted on May, 18 2014 @ 06:57 PM
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a reply to: jude11


The entire thread has been taken over by self proclaimed engineers and scientists that are completely ignoring the OP...

No, just some folks trying to correct your misinformation. Were you expecting a celebration of the mistakes?

From the exalted patent that's not for HAARP:

I claim:
1. A method for altering at least one region normally existing above the earth's surface with electromagnetic radiation using naturally-occurring and diverging magnetic field lines of the earth comprising transmitting first electromagnetic radiation at a frequency between 20 and 7200 kHz from the earth's surface,
www.google.com...


HAARP:

This array consists of 15x12 crossed dipole antennas, which together can transmit a total of 3600kW of RF power at frequencies from 2.8 - 10 MHz (HF, high frequency range).
vlf.stanford.edu...

Can you see the difference?

Your patent (again, not HAARP):

adjusting the frequency of said first radiation to a value which will excite electron cyclotron resonance at an initial elevation at least 50 km above the earth's surface,


50 km. Yeah, that's where the weather happens. GMAFB.



People are getting sick and tired of thread attacks when the truth is in black and white and its getting tiresome actually. But expected.

Don't whine about the truth if you're not going to tell it.



posted on May, 18 2014 @ 07:15 PM
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If you were able to send out two or more signals in opposite directions each able to create a wave resonance in the Ionosphere . it would be possible with timing and practice one could get these waves to meet where they wanted. What effect or side effect this might have is anybody's guess. If the different Sphere's are Capacitor's and you heat up or break down its die-electric . A circuit is formed creating blue lighting . Also related to weather.

The Guy in the Video did say control/manipulate Ionosphere . I'm kinda hoping this is where they went with over $300 million and not just seeing how far they could talk on a CB radio



posted on May, 18 2014 @ 07:18 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Flux8
Eastlund was not the inventor of HAARP. He patented an ionosopheric heater which would use MHD generators, not HAARP. You should also read up on what the purpose of the "claims" section of a patent is about. It covers your bases. If someone actually does what the claims in your patent say your invention can do, you can nail them for infringement. That's why Eastlund made his invention sound sort of like a Swiss army knife.
www.patentlens.net...



Who was the inventor of HAARP?



posted on May, 18 2014 @ 08:00 PM
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originally posted by: snarky412
a reply to: jude11



There has been some posters here on ATS as well that deny HAARP as a weather modification tool

Also, indirectly, can affect 'climate change' as well, correct???



Thanks for posting this

Wonder how long before the HAARP deniers appear



F&S




Fast I am sure. As the OP flat out lied, again, and nothing was ever said about weather modification. The quotes he used are exactly what the "deniers" have said HAARP does for years.



posted on May, 18 2014 @ 08:16 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Wolfenz

Managing the Ionosphere Designed to do ? injecting energy control it !! am i getting that wrong ?
Yes. That is the stated purpose of HAARP and always has been. What is your point? Weather does not occur in the ionosphere.






Weather does not occur in the ionosphere.





"WEATHER" IN THE UPPER ATMOSPHERE
www.albany.edu...

ok it Accures magnetic forces and Space Weather Effects


HAARP...

What does it do !?
Punches a Temporary Hole/Dent through the ionosphere.
causing the Effect and what is below it the other Layers right to the Stratosphere
basically from the Opposite end very very minor .
if you had watched the Documentary video ive posted
you would of known this. As few of The project Managers/Directors ( John Heckscher ) & ( Director of public relations Ritch Garcia ) and many more of HAARP had even said so .

just give your self 15 minutes of your time ( dinner break smoke break ) LOL
and just listen to the experts ...


www.youtube.com...







DARPA Reveals HAARP Plans For 2013
Monday, October 22, 2012 4:50
______beforeitsnews/science-and-technology/2012/10/darpa-reveals-haarp-plans-for-2013-2484498.html

VLF Waves, the Ionosphere, and Earthquakes
solar-center.stanford.edu...



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