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Where will Disclosure Come From?

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posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 08:06 PM
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a reply to: alienreality

BUT now it is because of the internet you say! and this wouldn't have happened that way if the internet was around back then, but you didn't attribute this as the reason earlier.
I didn't attribute anything. I provided a link. The link made the point.

 


Is it that important when you want to be right, and as equally important to you for everyone else to be wrong? Are you the reincarnation of Attila the Hun?
No.


The biggest point you have made is that you don't subscribe to conspiracies because they conflict with your view on reality.
I have not made such a point and that is not my point of view.


I don't have a problem with that.
But you do have a problem with the concept that there is nothing to disclose? At least as far as ET goes.




posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 08:28 PM
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a reply to: Phage

Yes and I proved there is a lot about that issue that is yet to be disclosed. But don't let the truth lead you to water, because you aren't thirsty, and it's simple to see.

Blue book, then the Condon report. Then Special report 14 which surfaced years later that confirmed the reasoning for starting blue book. . Then Blue Book's number one man doing a full circle when he saw the aftermath and how he was set up as a patsy, who then wrote a book about everything and how they fooled him.
I could go on and on with all the facts, but when facts get in your way, just say you don't need them, because your mind was made up a long time earlier.
I think one of your own slogans promotes this behavior. Which helps clarify your situation even better.

Even GW Bush told Carter to forget it, when Carter demanded to be informed, and GW is still in the loop, and that loop is a closed loop system. GW flat out told carter that he didn't have a legitimate need to know.

There is plenty that is hidden about ET. It doesn't bother me at all that you refuse even all the evidence that there is a cover up. But there is, in spite of you saying there isn't. and the evidence is much heavier on the side that it exists, than your side that just makes the claim as a statement.

I'm done. Essay writing in this type of redundancy might be entertaining, but it isn't really making progress for either of us. Everyone has their reasons and is entitled to them..
Have a good day.



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: EnPassant

ok so that's the part you like about it and the part I like about it is that hopefully instead of just a bunch of people talking about the subject maybe somebody would get the inclination to ask for a little technology upgrade so we can know this isn't just some government conspiracy to keep us obedient. Actually give us a sustainable way of expanding our knowledge as a co-sentient species. This planet could sustain a much higher population if we didn't rape the biosphere like we do. There HAS to be clean unlimited form of energy in order for them to do what they most likely do. I say let the philosophers philosophize and the doers do but let's grow up and get on with it.

Unless that happens and we see no tangible benefits aside from the daily talk show circuit, then I would suspect the government was just pulling some smoke and mirrors next step like Von Braun said to Carol Rosin. www.youtube.com...

edit on 2-6-2014 by bottleslingguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 2 2014 @ 08:56 PM
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a reply to: alienreality

you and I are on the same page. I said earlier and have many times before said disclosure is an individual discovery type thing. It is not going to happen like something you see on tv or in a movie with everyone mesmerized walking toward some huge craft over LA. And yes it is very important to be skeptical of any government intervention because why should we trust them any more? They've lied for so long and destroyed peoples' lives over this. They lost any credibility they may ever have had with me and I will not trust anything that comes directly or indirectly from them. And like I just said to enpassant, there will have to be tangible things involved that make the world a better place otherwise I mean like what's the difference then if things don't get better?
edit on 2-6-2014 by bottleslingguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 3 2014 @ 07:26 AM
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Traditionally high level disclosures were done via a gate system described by Dr. Jacques Vallee in another thread.
During WW2 information about secret German technology was cataloged using rather simple naming conventions.
For example read about the "Wotan" aircraft night guidance beam, the Germans hid the concept in Norse legend.
The tradition probably goes back to Rome and the Praetorian gates some of which were designed with integral baths.
Thats why we use the UFO lore to disclose classified technology.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 04:28 AM
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There are some obvious reasons why so-called disclosure will not occur.

1. The government has nothing to disclose. OR

2. The government knows something apparently ET or alien is involved in the UFO phenomena but doesn't know what it is and rather than appear ignorant claims nothing indicating alien is occurring. This is a strong possibility. OR

3. Some members of government and/or the military are directly involved with ET and will not admit it. This is the conspiratorial view.

There is an interesting movie I saw recently " The Disappearance of Flight 412". Listed as sci-fi [some say it was based upon a real incident] it is done documentary style and gives a likely scenario of a UFO contact situation and what some might perceive as the likely government reaction. It is somewhat dated [I believe 1970s] but is still very interesting if you are interested in this subject.

It is on YouTube and is free to watch and is only one hour and twelve minutes long.
Here is a link to it:
www.youtube.com...



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 09:18 AM
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a reply to: AlienView

I feel that number 2 is the most likely scenario. There's been a load of previously classified documents released in various countries which include people strong voicing their opinion that at least some of the UFOs are mechanical artefacts guided by something inteligent. And a lot of the UFO files have also been displaced, missing, gone to the shredder, blacked out or mysteriously stolen. It seems like there has been a real effort to destroy at least part of the knowledge. There's a lot of good reasons for destroying that knowledge even if the powers that be weren't in league with aliens. The knowledge seems to be highly compartamentalized. You have stuff like Nick Pope's superior tearing down the enlarged Pitlochry UFO photo from his office while the originals go mysteriously missing.

I think the fears about mass hysteria if alien contact would be confirmed is pretty valid. Not necessarily in a total meltdown of the society way. But eventualy someone would figure out to (ab)use people's fears to gain power and upset the social order. Or then someone would start demanding that we try to nuke them.

The UFO phenomena may have also served as a cover for unethical medical experiments (abductions) and secret aircraft tests. They'd have to disclose first that "yeah, we microwaved some people's brains and claimed it was aliens. Sorry about that nuclear balloon which fried the Landrum's. Oh and the whole Dulce mess. Yea the alien's aren't really eating us.". Do you see that happening any time soon?



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 09:28 AM
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originally posted by: phantomflier
a reply to: AlienView

I feel that number 2 is the most likely scenario. There's been a load


I agree.



posted on Jun, 4 2014 @ 10:13 AM
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a reply to: EnPassant

Agreed...I have read the threat by David Jacob and think he is correct about some aliens by just as all humans are not alike, so must be others that are non human.
The troubled souls that have confided in Jacobs may have been visited by the bad aliens.
The only way to know is to know all and that may elude us humans for some time to come.
Humans could be used as pawns for the good and bad aliens in the war between them.
Just a SWAG?



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 05:19 AM
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a reply to: waltwillis

tell me more about this "humans used as pawns" idea. what kind of game are we a part of? what is our contribution to the game? Is it something we do physically or is it all mental? you know like the bad ones want us to destroy our environment so they make fossil fuels available and we keep using fossil fuels? or is it something like they want to keep us disconnected from one another and the negative vibes make the bad aliens feel better? you know? like what kind of part do we fulfill as pawns?



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 05:24 AM
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a reply to: draknoir2
I'd say one two and three are all happening. The government hasn't a clue what the shadow government is doing and even sections of the shadow government don't know what the other sections are doing. otherwise known as a "clusterfuhk"



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 08:21 AM
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a reply to: Phage





But you do have a problem with the concept that there is nothing to disclose? At least as far as ET goes.



You think there is nothing to disclose?



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 11:43 AM
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originally posted by: kauskau
a reply to: Phage





But you do have a problem with the concept that there is nothing to disclose? At least as far as ET goes.



You think there is nothing to disclose?

I think most rational people believe there is no extraterrestrial life to disclose, given how many people are looking for it. It's only the fringe element who like to have this notion that there is a secret cabal of scientists and government spooks running round in cahoots with aliens and hiding it from their colleagues.

And I don't mean "there is no extraterrestrial life anywhere", because I certainly don't believe that and neither do most scientists. I mean, there is no evidence for ET life having ever visited Earth or made contact with humans.



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 05:45 PM
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originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: ArtemisE


I don't think the rise and fall of civilizations will stop alien species from meeting. We made it from the horse and buggy to the moon in 80 years. So a species doesn't need very long once self aware to get advanced enough to make the trip. Hell, if we make it another couple centuries, with out blowing our selves up, I'm sure we will be colonizing other star systems.


Flying to the moon is not really a big deal. It's climbing out of the cot and onto the nursery floor. A three-day trip travelling at rocket speed.

And I think a couple of centuries is optimistic. It's been almost half a century since we reached the moon and that's as far as we've got, at least in terms of manned missions. Even our most distant unmanned probe was launched almost 40 years ago, and we haven't gone further since.

Travelling even to the nearest star is a much bigger jump of technology than going to the moon. I'm not saying it is impossible but even for an alien race that lives for thousands of Earth years it would not be easy.

Maybe saying they will "never meet" was overstating it a bit. But the chances of mankind being one of the ones that does get to meet an alien civilisation are extremely remote, IMHO. Especially given that we have only just begun to look for life beyond our solar system in the past few decades, and then only passively.


Did you say that flying to the moon is no big deal?

How about what was said in the days before the Wright Brothers took to the air?
Or how about telling that to the people in the 1800's...



posted on Jun, 5 2014 @ 05:52 PM
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originally posted by: bottleslingguy
a reply to: waltwillis

tell me more about this "humans used as pawns" idea. what kind of game are we a part of? what is our contribution to the game? Is it something we do physically or is it all mental? you know like the bad ones want us to destroy our environment so they make fossil fuels available and we keep using fossil fuels? or is it something like they want to keep us disconnected from one another and the negative vibes make the bad aliens feel better? you know? like what kind of part do we fulfill as pawns?


So far I have noticed that there seems to be a balance in everything I have observed, that would presume there are good as well as bad aliens.

Matter and anti-matter as was discovered not too long ago, but until then we had no clue just as a fish would not know that they were in water.



posted on Jun, 6 2014 @ 08:12 AM
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a reply to: Rob48




I think most rational people believe there is no extraterrestrial life to disclose,


nothing rational about that..



posted on Jun, 6 2014 @ 08:22 AM
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originally posted by: waltwillis

Did you say that flying to the moon is no big deal?

How about what was said in the days before the Wright Brothers took to the air?
Or how about telling that to the people in the 1800's...


Don't take what I said out of context. I mean that travelling less than 250,000 miles to the satellite next door is no big deal compared to travelling to a different star system or even a different galaxy, which might be required to hook up with another intelligent species.


originally posted by kauskau

nothing rational about that..


Ditto. Taking me out of context. Read on and I said I do believe in extraterrestrial life, just not here on Earth. What is irrational about that?



posted on Jun, 6 2014 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: Rob48

what is irrational about it is that it is looking at the aliens as though they are limited by ancient technology. An advanced species by definition is further ahead than us on the intellectual food chain therefore they wouldn't be limited to our technological deficiencies. Are you saying you know the limits of their technology?



posted on Jun, 6 2014 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: Rob48

its rational to believe that there is something to disclose.....

But if you dont already feel like that after being on ats for awhile..We agree to disagree.



posted on Jun, 6 2014 @ 02:02 PM
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originally posted by: Rob48
I think most rational people believe there is no extraterrestrial life to disclose, given how many people are looking for it. It's only the fringe element who like to have this notion that there is a secret cabal of scientists and government spooks running round in cahoots with aliens and hiding it from their colleagues.


They don't have to be "in cahoots" with anyone or anything for an attempted closure of the UFO phenomena to occur. They only need to either come to the conclusion that "it's not a threat to national security" (a la UK) or then to realize they are dealing with someone or something that is way beyond their scope to handle. They couldn't really just go and say that "yeah, these things are zooming around and we can't do anything about it". The ramifications would be enormous. Some could live with it. Others would demand that we try to nuke them out of the skies or something equaly smart. People are drawn to fear and eventualy someone in the nuke them out-lobby would use fear to win political influence. It could upset the balance of power and in the worst case scenario bring us in conflict with forces we cannot defeat.

As for the distances, yes, interstellar distances are vast. And I highly doubt that the more anomalous UFOs we see just zip by and are back at Zeta Reticuli by lunch. But let's think about this from two different perspectives. First off, let's assume that they are indeed more or less rational beings with motives we can understand. That's a big stretch but we can't even start guessing "their" motives if such motives are either inscrutable to humans or were are dealing with some variant of the more paranormal explanations.

They could be doing research here. Now, humans also do all kinds of research in very remote parts of the Earth. We don't have anthropologists flying back to NYC from Papua New Guinea every night or researchers at Antarctica going back to Oslo to grab some coffee. No. They establish forward bases or live among their research subjects. If we are dealing with extraterrestials they would have most likely established a forward base somewhere withing our solar system. Perhaps even very close...after all, many have reported UFOs coming in and out of the oceans.

A more sinister variant would be some sort of a colonization or hostile takeover scenario. You'd still most likely need a forward base for such effort. You would also need pre-invasion research. Now it's a pretty fanciful and distressing notion but we can't entirely discount it either. I'm not much into the invasion scenario myself. Mostly because it has been argued that a civilization capable of interstellar travel would also have the ability to harvest ample, if not infinite, amount of resources from non-inhabited objects such as meteors. So there is little incentive unless they either love bloodshed or really like the real estate down here.



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