Sick of muslim apologists saying `well christianity was no better`.

a reply to: TinkerHaus

TinkerHaus, you know from our previous discussions about life, the universe, and everything, that despite my belief in Christ, I am not ignorant of the fact that things are done in his name now, and have been for two thousand years, which he would disagree with in the fullest of terms.

Furthermore, I am also aware, that despite the fact that many would like to deny it, the number of people destroyed by the activities of corrupted followers of organised Christianity has been enormous, and easily as large as the number destroyed by extremist Muslims.

When you add to that the fact, FACT mind you, indisputable and not up for debate sort of fact, that the current model of terror networks based on Islamic doctrine were actually invented, funded, and set up by the CIA, and the rumours of the CIAs continued involvement in the activities of these groups, not to mention drug smuggling from south of the US/Mexico border, it becomes very hard to identify the real cause of the problem.

What also confuses people, is the media manipulation which is afoot to make everyone living in the Middle East a potential terrorist in the eyes of the people. Here's the thing, Muslims are no different to you, me, the Pope, or Britney Spears. We all have the potential to do right and wrong, and we all bleed red if you cut us. Those are the ONLY important issues here.

What I am sick of is racists using the activities of a tiny minority of people, to justify hatred and vilification of, and last but most pathetic, fear of, an ENTIRE demographic.

There is a reason for the saying "the truth hurts". Many times it goes against our worldview and creates cognitive dissonance. CD causes confusion, anxiety, fear, and anger.

In the OP's case, it is obviously manifesting in anger. Anger leads to nothing good.

When will people realise that there is nothing wrong with religion.

It doesn't matter which religion you are.
We are all part of one regardless if you are religious or not.
Even an athiest is part of one.

The problem lies with those in a position to use religion as a means of leverage.

Leverage could be seen as a mea s to create divisions for various reasons, whether it be religious, colour, location etc.

All of which profit the string pullers.

Now that may be as far as some may read of my reply but......

Black vs white profitable to some but not the majority
Muslims vs Christians Profitable to some but not the majority
Wars and Conflicts Profitable to some but not the majority

The list is endless.

wars boost a specific slumping economy such as the metal industry
It has happened before Anaconda Copper, butte mining also tied to BP and others......serpent? snake? connected also to a certain couple of elite families ;-)
From war also creates more profit from 'relief efforts' for those fleeing war torn devastated areas, now I have a feeling that there are people who profit from immigrants and refugees.

Then we have those securing the rebuilding contracts.
Then we have those who are profiting from the oil
But its not only the oil though. Think of the specific minerals that would be required for specific technology and by securing this would essentially generate a profit for those who manufacture a specific area......say electronic industry perhaps. Think about which ground based elements. Lithium also.

Stock markets can be manipulated by conflicts and wars. Look at oil prices at the sniff of a war.

There are so many things used as a means of leverage to create divisions and religion is just one.

War.
Doesnt matter which country the military peraonel serve whether it be British, American, Canadian, French, Chinese, Japanese, zimbabwe, Italian , Russian or any other.
THOSE SENDING OTHERS TO DO THE FIGHTING SACRIFICE NOTHING THEMSELVES OGHER THAN THE LIVES OF MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF PEOPLE! NONE OF THOSE SENDING NO THEM BY THEIR NAMES, NONE OF THEM SENDING SEE PAST A NUMBER ON A PIECE OF PAPER.

I would love to go on but I'd be suprised if any have read this far lol but hey.

We are all part of one.

a reply to: jazz10

This post strikes to the very core of the issue. The problem is not the man in the street, no matter whether you live with or without faith, in the west or in the east. It is with leaders of faiths, leaders of governments, leaders of industries and people who wield power, either starting out as, or becoming corrupt and corrupting those around them.

The tendrils of that corruption take decades to be fully installed, but once they are, they sap the will of good people, people who see their lives eroded, the sweat of their brow gain them nothing, and begin to wonder why they cannot have what the vapid, decaying facades around them appear to have. Comfort, peace, freedom to act. The funds to do whatever they please...

It takes little to be drawn in, and much to avoid that fate.

But that fate has nothing to do with faith, and everything to do with lies, deception, evil. These things do not come from faith, but happen as a result of those who usurp it, inflicting their evil on others.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Exactly.
Thats what I am saying.

I aaallllllways go the long way around ;-)

I totally agree with you.
We aren't enemies of each other. But we all need to wise up and say.....nah I dontvthink so.

Those that play us all off should lead the way like the olden days. Leaders led their troops into battle and risked their own lives for the cause.
Today............way different.

And seems everyone accepts it.

a reply to: uninfluenced

Christianity is no better.
No worse, no better.

Both are toxic.

Ohh goody, another "i hate muslims" thread masquerading as something else.

Yawn.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: FreshKale
Christianity is the true religion and I am very sorry if that upset's your sensibilitys'.

You got to be kidding... exactly this type of response is what makes all religion just a joke - people who believe in myths including one that someone doing terrorist attack will get him number of virgins or the other one that all sins will be cleaned thanks to guy who knew how to turn water into wine and was born by virgin...

All religions, including christianity did everything possible to stop progress... still do, ask Ken Ham and other lunatic who read Bible as historical book, even everything points out that it is bad mythology, edited multiple times to make it less 'R' rated...

World would be much better place without religions - PERIOD.

ps. Does that upset's your sensibility?

I completely agree with you. There were Muslim atrocities around that general period of history as well. And the Crusades themselves were not necessarily atrocities, considering that the Muslims showed they too would launch a Crusade for the Holy Land. They didn't need to do that when they controlled it. There were atrocities committed during the Crusades, on both sides. You can point to individual instances to prove any point.

I could say that Richard massacred his prisoners at Acre, but part of the blame rested on Salah ad-Din, considering King Richard opened exchange negotiations. Or I could mention Salah ad-Din's sparing of Christian prisoners after the capture of Jerusalem. I bring these up as common examples. But this disregards the fact that the Muslim leader killed every single Christian he encountered after Acre for weeks. Or that after the capture of Jerusalem, only the higher ranking Christian soldiers were allowed to be ransomed back to their families. The lower-ranking foot soldiers were mostly sold into slavery. So was it mercy or economics? The leader is viewed as chivalrous in the west, and while he may have been, he also committed atrocities of his own. And this is only during the Third Crusade.

My point is that no one nation or belief system had a monopoly on wrongdoing at that time. Fast forward to the present, and I would feel much safer living in a Christian country as opposed to a Muslim country. The violence is astounding. But there is something that separates the two religions that I find very important. Islam teaches the promotion of hatred and hostilities between Muslims and non-Muslims, while Christianity teaches peace.

Now I know there will be those people who wish to bring up the Old Testament of the Bible and the atrocities committed within, but that has no bearing on Christianity in my opinion. All the teachings of that book were based on Jewish law. Christians believe that all that went out the window with the arrival of Jesus. His teachings superceded the older, Jewish teachings. And His message was one of peace. His message was also to let God deal with wrongdoers, NOT punish them yourself. And THAT is the major reason while I will always support Christianity more than Islam.

a reply to: uninfluenced
No true christian or muslim or jew can do such things.

I kimda laugh when your president says god bless america before they go bomb another country, but yea its them evil muslims.

originally posted by: uninfluenced
''sick of muslim apologists saying ''well christianity was no better''

actually thats a valid point, given the principle that glass house dwellers shouldn't be throwing rocks at each other. Meaning, if christians want to associate islam and muslims with the terrorists, then they better be willing to accept being assoiated with their bad guys. The rest of your post = a generic ''islam bad'' rant thats been done a million times before.

originally posted by: uninfluenced

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: uninfluenced

.

Just so you know i am Jewish myself, i didnt know how long itd be before somebody brings up the zionist card, sigh.......
w/e

in that case, ''well, Judaism wasn't any better''... Or did you want this to be only about Islam and Christians, while what you believe is off-bounds in the discussion?

Sure you can. These religions and the religious horrors (all) are a part of human evolution, and evolution doesn't work on a flat rate (like utilities can).

I think a lot of christians are getting closer to evolving out of that religion- maybe not for a few hundred more years, but they're slightly further along than (some) islamists are.

a reply to: defuntion

Actually the OT people were not christian that is a history of sorts. The NT People after jesus death are christians,(catholic pope crusades was not keeping with the NT and as such was not a christian action but a HYPOCRITES ACTION.


Both religons have violent past but thats only still true of the Muslim Imams preaching radicalized versions.

They are not Toxic themselves on a INDIVIDUAL level. When you start following what your church says to do and do nto think for yourself THEN it becomes toxic.

a reply to: jazz10

I think that to say people in general just accept it is not entirely accurate.

While it is true to say that the response of the majority of people to the vast betrayal they suffer at the hands of the government, is somewhat lacking in vigour and breadth, the reason for this is not that everyone has accepted it.

The fact is, that reactions to the situation in individual nations differ, but so do reactions from individual people within a nation. For instance, I am personally affronted by the behaviour of my nations government, toward the people of this nation, toward the people of other nations, and toward the people of the future. In almost every possible regard, I find the political establishment in my country to be variously corrupt, incompetent, psychopathic, and evil.

But I personally, cannot see a plausible solution, which would achieve a correction of this issue, without someone having to make a choice on behalf of a whole host of people they never met, and cannot possibly hope to represent legitimately, which is half the problem with government in the first place! I do not accept the situation, I am just at a loss to solve it without behaving in a way which would be worse than the behaviour of the current establishment.

But there are other people out there who honestly do not think that the government is anything like as bad as it really is, because they have still got their rose coloured glasses on. People who have somehow managed to gain for themselves some measure of peace and stability in their lives will, of course, be in favour of maintaining whatever constructs allow them to continue in that way. These people do not accept that there is something really wrong in government, because they could not be happier with their lot, and have no reason to suspect such tyranny to be masked behind something positive in their lives.

There are also those who while aware that their country is run by people less scrupulous than themselves that their nation is being destroyed around their ears by poor choices and evil machinations...but because these folks have to eat, have to feed their families, they can be aware of the issue, without prioritising it, and damn right too. A persons responsibility is to their ability to continue to live, and to ensure that minimum for their families before all other things, and everything else a distant second. It seems harsh, but one cannot easily do anything vast for the world if one is hungry, thirsty, shivering and homeless. It is not acceptance that you see from those people either. Some people have to prioritise their immediate circumstances, and I think we all understand that.

You also have those who simply have to ignore the whole thing, otherwise they would self terminate or in some other way loose their minds. For some, ignorance is preferable to gibbering insanity (luckily, I got all of that out of the way early... The gibbering insanity, not the ignorance! I have been denying that since I was very young, way before I arrived at this website!). This is not acceptance, but self preservation.

There are also those who, while not directly involved at the centre of the darker aspects of government, are complacent in the wrongdoing of powerful persons, enablers, fixers, facilitators. They are not truly ignorant of the effects of what they do, but they DO accept it. They accept it, they know about it, and they want it to keep going because they are doing very well thank you very much.

Then you have the top deck bastards, those who not only facilitate, but instigate the flow of power from puppet to puppet, from CEO to PM, from PM to multinational organisation, from multinational to individual, from fear to income, from futures to ending them prematurely, selling and buying anything from morality to mortality. These buggers accept it, because they help to create the situation. They are long since past the point where they no longer require the money they get. Many of them have more than a man could ever spend. They are in the game, purely for the power. They have a taste for it, for being the one who sits in plush surroundings, sipping fine spirits, smoking fine cigars, and taking death and pain in their stride as easy as breathing.

Acceptance is much less widespread than you might assume. I think despair is rife however.

a reply to: uninfluenced

Honor Rapes that is all I need or CARE to know about muslims.

overall treatment of women makes me want to go postal.

But honor rapes? seriously.

Why does the rest of the world even tolerate a religion that does this.?

a reply to: FreshKale


Islam is not now at roughly the same age. They were modernized like everyone else, to a large extent, and then along came the nazi's in ww2 and they had a plan for the future, basically they fanned up Banna's Brotherhood, which was a minority blast from the past, shariah sect, minority emphasized.

And its been CIA ever since, to destroy the free world, or create tensions and wars, or whatever nefarious plans they have had but the women didn't want to go back under the veils.

Thousands of years before these religions people had other ideas. guess what they got up to back then?
kill kill kill.. in the name of 100's of different god's names.

These are still fairly new religions to man, written by men, then spouted out by men for personal gain.

2-3000 years from now MAN will have new gods and New religions..
on maybe new planets with new books..
Guess what they will do then in the name of?

Humans are animals, These animals can't get along.

This.

Christianity = peace loving ideas
Islam = peace loving ideas

Christianity in actuality has done enormous harm to the world. The church has given us several crusades, the dark ages, genocides, child molesters, cover ups of child molesters, and the 700 club. All of this has happened in a top down way, meaning straight from the actual top, the vatican.

Islam in actuality has done terrible things as well. Wars, suicide bombings, marrying children, honor killings, and much more. However, these are usually from people who misinterpret the religious texts or choose to interpret them through their own messed up lenses. There is no true central leadership in Islam as I understand it.

As a side note, just remember where we got algebra from and where we got the dark ages from.

So can we blame Islam... no. We can blame the idiots who do stupid things in the name of Islam.

Can we blame Christianity... no, we shouldn't. We can blame the vatican and the central christian leadership for being a blight upon our world and twisting the teachings of a devout Jew who's main argument was people weren't being Jewish enough..

I am neither before any one asks... I also must believe that the average Joe and average Mohammed doesn't want to see harm come on to their neighbors regardless of their religious belief. If I can't believe in that then.... well what's the point?