It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
originally posted by: Semicollegiate
Also, right now it is illegal to sell your neighbor energy.
A business that has enough solar power to refine metal can't sell its surplus electricity to its neighbors. So there is minimal incentive to make energy outside of the utility monopolies.
Monopolies are made by regulations and laws.
originally posted by: amfirst1
a reply to: ArtemisE
The Democrats are lying. The arctic ice expanded this year and we experience record break cold temperature. We are going through global cooling.
CA has always been a desert in the south so its no surprise of a drought. We always had a dought and it was much hotter when I was a kid 25 years ago
Democrats and some Republicans are bankrolled by multinational corporations that sit offshore and tax exempted. They are trying to shut down the resources in America through the guise of global warming in order for America to be dependent on these foreign energy corporations etc. George Soros is a major player he invest in billions on foreign energy companies.
That's basically the gist of their agenda. It's really easy to figure it out. Just watch clips of Soros talking about it.
originally posted by: amazing
Whichever side is wrong? Science already has a consensus that Man Made Global Warming is real. Just like Gravity and Evolution and electricity and on and on and on. There is only one side, unless you are like Ken Hamm and answers in Genesis and disregard all science. Don't be that guy.
Now, just for the sake of argument, let's pretend that every scientist and university in the world is wrong and a few nuts are right . . .
originally posted by: amazing
a reply to: FriedBabelBroccoli
But you just said, basically that these scientists are taking their information from the IPCC? What about all the other independent studies-hundreds of them with no connection to the IPCC? You also said:
"...That Many folks in the sciences have not learned the differential equations or vector calculus to be able to interpret the extremely limited modeling available to the public. Of those that have many have not learned the statistical analysis to properly analyze data that has been included or tossed out. Also most climate scientists have only focused on the physics of optics and have not actually taken courses in the physics of electromagnetism..."
You've basically said there that all of the climate data research going back decades is flawed because they don't know what to look for and know as much about science as you do.
Got it. I'm sure they could learn a lot from you.
And yes I am pretty cute...so my wife keeps telling me, But, there is scientific consensus on this and I although different areas of expertise I think Man Made Global Warming is as sure a thing as evolution or the theory of Gravity.
Two leading experts on forecasting and one on the physics of climate joined forces to investigate IPCC modeling procedures and conclusions. They are Dr. Kesten Green, Professor J. Scott Armstrong, and Dr. Willie Soon. What they found was truly shocking: the modeling procedures that the IPCC relies upon to produce their scary climate change scenarios ignore most principles of scientific forecasting.
Kesten Green, based at the University of South Australia in Adelaide, has published pioneering articles on forecasting methods and is co-director of a major website on forecasting methods, www.ForecastingPrinciples.com. Scott Armstrong teaches at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia and is a founder of the two major journals on forecasting methods, editor of the Principles of Forecasting handbook, and the world’s most highly cited author on forecasting methods. Willie Soon is a solar physicist who has published many important empirical papers on the causes of climate changes.
I have asked Kesten to discuss their findings.
Kesten, through your joint investigations into this matter I understand that you found that the modeling procedures the IPCC uses to create their of climate change projections violated 72 of 89 relevant forecasting principles. Should we be concerned that an extraordinarily well-funded international agency reporting to governments has followed less than 20 percent of what could be thought of as scientific procedures?
. . .
So how do the long-range forecasts you obtained compare with the scenarios that the IPCC promotes to policymakers and the media?
First we followed forecasting principles to choose the most appropriate forecasting method. We then applied it to predict global mean temperatures since 1850 (roughly the start of the Industrial Revolution), as measured by the same data that the IPCC used. To choose a method, we examined the state of knowledge and available empirical data.
In this application we concluded that the “no-trend” model is the proper method to use. Our conclusion is based upon a substantial body of research that found complex models do not work well compared to simple models in complex and uncertain situations. This is the case here where the climate is so complex and insufficiently understood that any net effect of human emissions on global temperatures cannot be identified.
By contrast, the IPCC relies upon complicated computer models to represent their assumption that the relatively small human contribution of CO2 to the atmosphere will cause dangerous global warming. And because the models are so complex, the modelers need to include numerous assumptions. Many mainstream scientists question those assumptions.
Not surprisingly, given that they were the product of scientific forecasting principles, our no-trend forecasts were much more accurate than the IPCC’s warming scenario temperatures over the period of exponentially increasing CO2 emissions from 1850.
originally posted by: ArtemisE
a reply to: amazing
Damn you beat me to it. If climate change is wrong it's not the dems that are lying. It's the science community making it up. The dems are just trying to profit off them. I don't know how the right wing talking heads have convinced y'all the left are nazis. It really is laughable.