3 Months Since Legalizing Marijuana, Here's What Colorado Looks Like

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

That means 1% of 35%, or .35% of ALL 26 year olds, close to 3.5 MILLION people develop SERIOUS marijuana problems each year.

The article says a serious marijuana problem is classified as addiction, you're twisting the words used.

I am twisting their words by quoting them exactly and flat out stating it's talking about addiction? That's seriously twisted logic. I flat out stated what they meant by a serious problem, and included it in my quote. Did I not?

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: semperfortis

Research shows that regular marijuana use compromises the ability to learn and to remember information by impairing the ability to focus, sustain, and shift attention. One study also found that long-term use reduces the ability to organize and integrate complex information.

I have smoked MJ nearly every single day since I was about 16, no word of a lie. Do I seem like I have a problem remembering information or organizing complex information? Read some of my threads and make up your own mind. Plus I'm a programmer, not exactly an easy thing to do, check out my ATS 5.3 tweak script if you don't believe me. In fact most of the programmers I know smoke MJ, those assertions are simply ridiculous if you ask me.

Logical fallacy. One exception does not prove a rule.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Show me it's one in a million. And no, he didn't. No psychiatric history whatsoever, none, zero, zip. No criminal record either. He now requires psychiatric medication to keep from hearing voices for the rest of his life.

Show me its not one in a million or more...



Im sorry but I just don't believe you... and your links to pros/cons are certainly not convincing



IF this is true its an extremely rare case...



And as I've said, any damage that could be caused is nothing compared to what "legal drugs" have done...

Why would I have to research your claim? You made it, you prove it. I am not doing yuor research, I already linked, quoted, and sourced peer reviewed research to prove my talking points. I need to do the same for you now? Stop being so lazy.

originally posted by: OuttaOC
I'm not saying MJ is harmless, but i am saying MJ alone does not cause schizophrenia.

Which is exactly what I already said. The response was MJ dos nothing and has zero side effects. This is a flat out lie.

My very first post was something to the effect of it will be interesting to see the long-term effects, because right now we just don't have the data.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I already linked, quoted, and sourced peer reviewed research to prove my talking points. I need to do the same for you now? Stop being so lazy.

Actually you did it for me... read your own links...

The overall magnitude of risk appears to be modest, and cannabis use is only 1 of myriad factors that increase the risk of psychosis. Furthermore, most cannabis users do not develop psychosis. However, the risk associated with cannabis occurs during a vulnerable time of development and is modifiable."

There have been reports of psychotic 'breakdowns' occuring with rare frequency after marijuana has been smoked, but the causal relationship is in question.

The psychotic episodes are generally self-limiting and seem to occur in individuals with a history of psychiatric problems."

The results of this study indicate that the incidence and prevalence of diagnoses of schizophrenia and psychoses in general practice did not increase between 1996 and 2005...


This study does not therefore support the specific causal link between cannabis use and the incidence of psychotic disorders...


The most parsimonious explanation of the results reported here are that the schizophrenia/psychoses data presented here are valid and the causal models linking cannabis with schizophrenia/psychoses are not supported by this study."

It is conceivable that excessive use of cannabis sometimes contributes to acute schizophrenic episodes. But it is difficult to believe that cannabis is a strong risk factor for this disorder, because there is no evidence that the incidence of schizophrenia has risen dramatically over the past 50 years, in parallel with the huge increase in cannabis use.

Young schizophrenic patients are often heavy cigarette smokers too, but no-one would suggest that tobacco causes schizophrenia

Your "patient" is one in a million or more... in fact I could even say I have a "patient" or resident that regularly takes it in a pill form... and theres been nothing but positive effects...

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Just for your reading pleasure..

Dr. Suzanne Steinbaum is an attending cardiologist and the director of Women's Heart Health of Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City

First, marijuana can be damaging to your heart. In fact, a study released today (April 23) by the Journal of the American Heart Association revealed a correlation between cardiovascular disease and cannabis use in regular marijuana users.

Cannabis use was identified as a trigger for ischemic stroke, third only to tobacco smoking and coc aine use, the study found.

Live Science

Over a five-year period, a government-mandated tracking system in France showed that physicians in that country treated 1,979 patients for serious health problems associated with the use of marijuana, and nearly 2% of those encounters were with patients suffering from cardiovascular problems, including heart attack, cardiac arrhythmia and stroke, and circulation problems in the arms and legs. In roughly a quarter of those cases, the study found, the patient died.

Aside from heart attacks and strokes, case studies linked recent marijuana use in patients seeking care for increased angina, ischemic ulcers and gangrene associated with blocked blood flow to extremities and transcient ischemic attacks, sometimes called "mini-strokes." Notably these complaints often came from patients who were young and had no previous evidence of cardiovascular disease.

LA Times

My trouble with this is evidenced in this thread quite nicely. People are so emotionally invested in this topic as to make some seriously outlandish statements and expect to be believed. Emotional invested as to post personal experiences as if they were clinical studies.

Emotional investment evidenced by an apparent inability to even attempt to intelligently examine the "other side" and most assuredly there is an other side to this issue..

a reply to: semperfortis

The nicotine in cigarettes (which I smoke, unfortunately) also causes cardiovascular/heart problems and I'm willing to bet this has been studied a lot more extensively than the effects of marijuana on the heart. What are you gonna do?

Adults should have the right to decide what to put into their bodies as long as it's not harming anyone else. I hope you're not saying that you support mayor Bloomberg and his sugary drink and salt bans etc in NYC due to all the liberal sensationalism...

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I already linked, quoted, and sourced peer reviewed research to prove my talking points. I need to do the same for you now? Stop being so lazy.

Actually you did it for me... read your own links...

The overall magnitude of risk appears to be modest, and cannabis use is only 1 of myriad factors that increase the risk of psychosis. Furthermore, most cannabis users do not develop psychosis. However, the risk associated with cannabis occurs during a vulnerable time of development and is modifiable."

There have been reports of psychotic 'breakdowns' occuring with rare frequency after marijuana has been smoked, but the causal relationship is in question.



The psychotic episodes are generally self-limiting and seem to occur in individuals with a history of psychiatric problems."

The results of this study indicate that the incidence and prevalence of diagnoses of schizophrenia and psychoses in general practice did not increase between 1996 and 2005...





This study does not therefore support the specific causal link between cannabis use and the incidence of psychotic disorders...





The most parsimonious explanation of the results reported here are that the schizophrenia/psychoses data presented here are valid and the causal models linking cannabis with schizophrenia/psychoses are not supported by this study."

It is conceivable that excessive use of cannabis sometimes contributes to acute schizophrenic episodes. But it is difficult to believe that cannabis is a strong risk factor for this disorder, because there is no evidence that the incidence of schizophrenia has risen dramatically over the past 50 years, in parallel with the huge increase in cannabis use.



Young schizophrenic patients are often heavy cigarette smokers too, but no-one would suggest that tobacco causes schizophrenia

Your "patient" is one in a million or more... in fact I could even say I have a "patient" or resident that regularly takes it in a pill form... and theres been nothing but positive effects...

How is posting EXACTLY what I posted earlier some sort of "gotcha"? You do realize this 100% proves you wrong? Your assertion ...

originally posted by: Akragon

The only effect is munchies... the urge to pillage a fridge....

100% proven false. I also linked research that was PRO marijuana which stated 1% of all users who smoke pot before the age of 26 will develop an addiction by the time they are 26.

originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: semperfortis



The nicotine in cigarettes (which I smoke, unfortunately) also causes cardiovascular/heart problems and I'm willing to bet this has been studied a lot more extensively than the effects of marijuana on the heart. What are you gonna do?



Adults should have the right to decide what to put into their bodies as long as it's not harming anyone else. I hope you're not saying that you support mayor Bloomberg and his sugary drink and salt bans etc in NYC due to all the liberal sensationalism...

That's not the issue. The issue is people saying weed has NO negative long term side effects. You acknowledge tobacco does. Weed does as well. The Pro MJ crowd is just spreading non stop lies in the post.

Cigarettes will also make permanent changes to your brain chemistry. MJ does this as well.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I am twisting their words by quoting them exactly and flat out stating it's talking about addiction?

You were implying the serious damage was psychosis, addiction is not a serious problem unless you don't like the thing you're addicted to.

Logical fallacy. One exception does not prove a rule.

Being a rather heavy MJ user myself I obviously know many other heavy MJ users and the majority of them are quite smart fellows, but there are exceptions of course. MJ has nothing to do with intelligence, some of the most intelligent people in history were MJ users. It's all about how you train your brain and what you choose to learn. If you just smoke MJ all day and do nothing else you're obviously going to be a dumb fool, but if you do a lot of programming like I do the MJ can actually help you learn. And I know this sounds fairly controversial, but I'm confident it's the truth, and that's why most of the programmers I know smoke MJ... or maybe it's just because we can't sit in front of a computer all day without something to make it more entertaining. Lol I don't know, but either way it doesn't make people stupid. People make themselves stupid by not putting their brain to use.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

That's not the issue. The issue is people saying weed has NO negative long term side effects. You acknowledge tobacco does. Weed does as well. The Pro MJ crowd is just spreading non stop lies in the post. Cigarettes will also make permanent changes to your brain chemistry. MJ does this as well.

Maybe. I won't dispute it or refute it. The question is, do you think adults should have a right to put whatever they wish into their bodies even knowing the risks? People do it everyday with cigarettes. What makes MJ any different?

The people of Colorado voted for MJ to be legal for recreational purposes. This is the reality. If you wish to intervene and make it illegal again, by all means, come to Colorado and do what you wish to try and make it illegal again. I don't think you will succeed, but with enough persistence and campaigning against it, you never know!

a reply to: semperfortis

Just for your reading pleasure..

And here's something just for your reading pleasure:

Top 10 Cannabis Studies the Government Wished it Had Never Funded

10) MARIJUANA USE HAS NO EFFECT ON MORTALITY: A massive study of California HMO members funded by the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) found marijuana use caused no significant increase in mortality. Tobacco use was associated with increased risk of death. Sidney, S et al. Marijuana Use and Mortality. American Journal of Public Health. Vol. 87 No. 4, April 1997. p. 585-590. Sept. 2002.

9) HEAVY MARIJUANA USE AS A YOUNG ADULT WON’T RUIN YOUR LIFE: Veterans Affairs scientists looked at whether heavy marijuana use as a young adult caused long-term problems later, studying identical twins in which one twin had been a heavy marijuana user for a year or longer but had stopped at least one month before the study, while the second twin had used marijuana no more than five times ever. Marijuana use had no significant impact on physical or mental health care utilization, health-related quality of life, or current socio-demographic characteristics. Eisen SE et al. Does Marijuana Use Have Residual Adverse Effects on Self-Reported Health Measures, Socio-Demographics or Quality of Life? A Monozygotic Co-Twin Control Study in Men. Addiction. Vol. 97 No. 9. p.1083-1086. Sept. 1997

8) THE “GATEWAY EFFECT” MAY BE A MIRAGE: Marijuana is often called a “gateway drug” by supporters of prohibition, who point to statistical “associations” indicating that persons who use marijuana are more likely to eventually try hard drugs than those who never use marijuana – implying that marijuana use somehow causes hard drug use. But a model developed by RAND Corp. researcher Andrew Morral demonstrates that these associations can be explained “without requiring a gateway effect.” More likely, this federally funded study suggests, some people simply have an underlying propensity to try drugs, and start with what’s most readily available. Morral AR, McCaffrey D and Paddock S. Reassessing the Marijuana Gateway Effect. Addiction. December 2002. p. 1493-1504.

7) PROHIBITION DOESN’T WORK (PART I): The White House had the National Research Council examine the data being gathered about drug use and the effects of U.S. drug policies. NRC concluded, “the nation possesses little information about the effectiveness of current drug policy, especially of drug law enforcement.” And what data exist show “little apparent relationship between severity of sanctions prescribed for drug use and prevalence or frequency of use.” In other words, there is no proof that prohibition – the cornerstone of U.S. drug policy for a century – reduces drug use. National Research Council. Informing America’s Policy on Illegal Drugs: What We Don’t Know Keeps Hurting Us. National Academy Press, 2001. p. 193.

6) PROHIBITION DOESN’T WORK (PART II): DOES PROHIBITION CAUSE THE “GATEWAY EFFECT”?): U.S. and Dutch researchers, supported in part by NIDA, compared marijuana users in San Francisco, where non-medical use remains illegal, to Amsterdam, where adults may possess and purchase small amounts of marijuana from regulated businesses. Looking at such parameters as frequency and quantity of use and age at onset of use, they found no differences except one: Lifetime use of hard drugs was significantly lower in Amsterdam, with its “tolerant” marijuana policies. For example, lifetime crack coc aine use was 4.5 times higher in San Francisco than Amsterdam. Reinarman, C, Cohen, PDA, and Kaal, HL. The Limited Relevance of Drug Policy: Cannabis in Amsterdam and San Francisco. American Journal of Public Health. Vol. 94, No. 5. May 2004. p. 836-842.

5) OOPS, MARIJUANA MAY PREVENT CANCER (PART I): Federal researchers implanted several types of cancer, including leukemia and lung cancers, in mice, then treated them with cannabinoids (unique, active components found in marijuana). THC and other cannabinoids shrank tumors and increased the mice’s lifespans. Munson, AE et al. Antineoplastic Activity of Cannabinoids. Journal of the National Cancer Institute. Sept. 1975. p. 597-602.

4) OOPS, MARIJUANA MAY PREVENT CANCER, (PART II): In a 1994 study the government tried to suppress, federal researchers gave mice and rats massive doses of THC, looking for cancers or other signs of toxicity. The rodents given THC lived longer and had fewer cancers, “in a dose-dependent manner” (i.e. the more THC they got, the fewer tumors). NTP Technical Report On The Toxicology And Carcinogenesis Studies Of 1-Trans- Delta-9-Tetrahydrocannabinol, CAS No. 1972-08-3, In F344/N Rats And B6C3F Mice, Gavage Studies. See also, “Medical Marijuana: Unpublished Federal Study Found THC-Treated Rats Lived Longer, Had Less Cancer,” AIDS Treatment News no. 263, Jan. 17, 1997.

3) OOPS, MARIJUANA MAY PREVENT CANCER (PART III): Researchers at the Kaiser-Permanente HMO, funded by NIDA, followed 65,000 patients for nearly a decade, comparing cancer rates among non-smokers, tobacco smokers, and marijuana smokers. Tobacco smokers had massively higher rates of lung cancer and other cancers. Marijuana smokers who didn’t also use tobacco had no increase in risk of tobacco-related cancers or of cancer risk overall. In fact their rates of lung and most other cancers were slightly lower than non-smokers, though the difference did not reach statistical significance. Sidney, S. et al. Marijuana Use and Cancer Incidence (California, United States). Cancer Causes and Control. Vol. 8. Sept. 1997, p. 722-728.

2) OOPS, MARIJUANA MAY PREVENT CANCER (PART IV): Donald Tashkin, a UCLA researcher whose work is funded by NIDA, did a case-control study comparing 1,200 patients with lung, head and neck cancers to a matched group with no cancer. Even the heaviest marijuana smokers had no increased risk of cancer, and had somewhat lower cancer risk than non-smokers (tobacco smokers had a 20-fold increased lung cancer risk). Tashkin D. Marijuana Use and Lung Cancer: Results of a Case-Control Study. American Thoracic Society International Conference. May 23, 2006.

1) MARIJUANA DOES HAVE MEDICAL VALUE: In response to passage of California’s medical marijuana law, the White House had the Institute of Medicine (IOM) review the data on marijuana’s medical benefits and risks. The IOM concluded, “Nausea, appetite loss, pain and anxiety are all afflictions of wasting, and all can be mitigated by marijuana.” While noting potential risks of smoking, the report acknowledged there is no clear alternative for people suffering from chronic conditions that might be relieved by smoking marijuana, such as pain or AIDS wasting. The government’s refusal to acknowledge this finding caused co-author John A. Benson to tell the New York Times that the government loves to ignore our report; they would rather it never happened. (Joy, JE, Watson, SJ, and Benson, JA. Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base. National Academy Press. 1999. p. 159. See also, Harris, G. FDA Dismisses Medical Benefit From Marijuana. New York Times. Apr. 21, 2006)

originally posted by: gort51
Lawyers will soon have a field day for criminals/murderers etc.

It will be called, the "Stoners Defence"

Much like the "Im Drunk" defence, now that weed is legal, well, its the Govts fault isnt it?

Man I was Stoned, I didnt mean to run over 20 innocent people in my car......seemed logical at the time...they were shape shifting demons!!

yeah funny , but based on nothing and mainly insulting and ment to derail any adult discussion.

But go ahead.....tell me about how you drink every weekend.

I live in Holland , i see from personal experience regulating has atleast some positive effects versus doing nothing about it and have criminal organisations run it.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
You were implying the serious damage was psychosis, addiction is not a serious problem unless you don't like the thing you're addicted to.

No, I was implying that weed can do much more than make you hungry, which is what the poster said. He said that is the ONLY POSSIBLE side effect.

Silly me for thinking Heroin, alcohol, gambling, and sex addicts have a problem, they love their 'drug' of choice so I guess they are kosher. Thanks for filling me in!

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

You also said you have a patient that smoked it, and now he hears voices...

So the solution was to give him another pharma drug... For the rest if his life...

IF you're in the physciatric field at all... You're a quack...

And whoever perscribed said treatment should be up for medical review... And have their licence suspended

But i guess thats just my opinion... And regardless of it... I believe you are full of it



cheers

originally posted by: Wookiep
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

That's not the issue. The issue is people saying weed has NO negative long term side effects. You acknowledge tobacco does. Weed does as well. The Pro MJ crowd is just spreading non stop lies in the post. Cigarettes will also make permanent changes to your brain chemistry. MJ does this as well.

Maybe. I won't dispute it or refute it. The question is, do you think adults should have a right to put whatever they wish into their bodies even knowing the risks? People do it everyday with cigarettes. What makes MJ any different?



The people of Colorado voted for MJ to be legal for recreational purposes. This is the reality. If you wish to intervene and make it illegal again, by all means, come to Colorado and do what you wish to try and make it illegal again. I don't think you will succeed, but with enough persistence and campaigning against it, you never know!

Yes, and I already outlined the steps that should be taken for those who choose to do so. I believe in personal responsibility.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: OccamsRazor04



You also said you have a patient that smoked it, and now he hears voices...



So the solution was to give him another pharma drug... For the rest if his life...



IF you're in the physciatric field at all... You're a quack...



And whoever perscribed said treatment should be up for medical review... And have their licence suspended



But i guess thats just my opinion... And regardless of it... I believe you are full of it







cheers

That's because you refuse to believe anything except what you want to believe, even though I sourced and proved MJ DOES induce psychosis and schizophrenia for at risk individuals.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

No, I was implying that weed can do much more than make you hungry, which is what the poster said. He said that is the ONLY POSSIBLE side effect.

Well then that poster obviously is wrong, because it can make your speech slurred, it can make you unable to walk, and in some rare circumstances it can make you insane. I'm not going to deny any of those things. Alcohol can also make your speech slurred, it can make you unable to walk, and it can also kill you, and it does all those things much more easily than MJ will.