Calling all spiritual atheist.

originally posted by: Luthierbrown
a reply to: Stormdancer777

Spiritual atheist is a ridiculous term I am sorry. How can you believe in a spiritual nature and not a higher power. There are already different theological groups that have the "spiritual atheist" premiss. No need to make a new one up. Just because you don't believe in the bible doesn't make you an atheist. But animism, ancestor cults, deism, Buddhism, Jainism, daoism, Shinto, zen, Wicca, etc are not atheist. Atheist believe this is it. The world can only be judged with empirical knowledge. There is no higher power, spirit, or any other metaphysical happening. Hence the creation of the word and meaning atheist.

Most atheists I know are deist. But a few philosophers are truly atheist.

This spiritual atheism is something I had not heard of before, that's why I started the topic, but in my heart I believe there are few really true atheist.

a reply to: maes2

There is no need for spirituality and divine books to prove the existence of the creator.

It was inevitable that man kind would eventually write down his thoughts.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: Stormdancer777

Research shows that even skeptics can't stifle the sense that there is something greater than the concrete world we see.

Like the electromagnetic spectrum? Or the zillions of particles flying around? We're discovering new worlds every day. Technically speaking, what we actually perceive is less than 1% of what is actually there. But it would be a mistake to discover the leg of an elephant and immediately assume that it's a tree.

Scientific discoveries makes me more of a believer, the more we learn the more I believe there was someone greater, if you take the metaphysical out.

a reply to: Stormdancer777

I have actively studied many religions and philosophies. When i was in my teens i related with budhism because it seemed very natural at the time but i would not have called myself a budhist.

I do find inspiration in all kinds of religious writing. If one is allowed to cherry pick through ancient texts, we could find some great insight into humanity as a whole and even a fair amount of provable history. However, i find much more fiction and reprehensible claims than anything i can relate too.

I think this is what turned me off from any particular religion or world view. I could always find something i didn't agree with. I dont feel comfortable describing myself as something that i couldn't fully support. In my mind they all fall short of their claims.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: Stormdancer777

If I had kids, I would teach them how to be. Not because "Jesus said so", but because it's the right thing to do. Plenty of atheists have children that are taught right from wrong without the need of a handbook. Life does not have a handbook. Here's where I am a humanist: We don't need a God or a governing body to do the right thing. Our humanness allows for us to be GOOD people, even if we never heard of the bible, Jesus or God.

I don't think we realize how much we are influenced by the ancient text.

The only way we would know one way or the other for sure is if we never had them as a guide post, but I believe much of the laws did evolve out of need for civilization and the group,

Funny how that worked out huh?

The different civilizations, and religions, and nations, strange.

Tribal

a reply to: Woodcarver

In my mind they all fall short of their claims.

I understand.

IF thou would’st hear the Nameless, and wilt dive
Into the Temple-cave of thine own self,
There, brooding by the central altar, thou
May’st haply learn the Nameless hath a voice,
By which thou wilt abide, if thou be wise,
As if thou knewest, tho’ thou canst not know;
For Knowledge is the swallow on the lake
That sees and stirs the surface-shadow there
But never yet hath dipt into the abysm,
The Abysm of all Abysms, beneath, within
The blue of sky and sea, the green of earth,
And in the million-millionth of a grain
Which cleft and cleft again for evermore,
And ever vanishing, never vanishes,
To me, my son, more mystic than myself,
Or even than the Nameless is to me.
And when thou sendest thy free soul thro’ heaven,
Nor understandest bound nor boundlessness,
Thou seest the Nameless of the hundred names.
And if the Nameless should withdraw from all
Thy frailty counts most real, all thy world
Might vanish like thy shadow in the dark.

‘And since—from when this earth began—
The Nameless never came
Among us, never spake with man,
And never named the Name’—

Thou canst not prove the Nameless, O my son,
Nor canst thou prove the world thou movest in,
Thou canst not prove that thou art body alone,
Nor canst thou prove that thou art spirit alone,
Nor canst thou prove that thou art both in one:
Thou canst not prove thou art immortal, no
Nor yet that thou art mortal—nay my son,
Thou canst not prove that I, who speak with thee,
Am not thyself in converse with thyself,
For nothing worthy proving can be proven,
Nor yet disproven: wherefore thou be wise,
Cleave ever to the sunnier side of doubt,
And cling to Faith beyond the forms of Faith
She reels not in the storm of warring words,
She brightens at the clash of ‘Yes’ and ‘No’,
She sees the Best that glimmers thro’ the Worst,
She feels the Sun is hid but for a night,
She spies the summer thro’ the winter bud,
She tastes the fruit before the blossom falls,
She hears the lark within the songless egg,
She finds the fountain where they wail’d ‘Mirage’!

My spirituality, if I could be said to possess or experience such a thing, is much the same as someone admiring a piece of artwork. I admire the universe, and I admire life. But I worship neither. Worship, to me, is abhorrent, little more than glorified discrimination. No friend would allow themselves to be exalted above other friends. And that means that anyone asking to be worshipped is likely to be no friend of mine. So I guess I'm half-spiritual, in that I'm willing to take notice and appreciate, like thanking someone for a cup of coffee or telling them their tie looks nice, but I refuse to bow down.

I'm posting this as one example of atheist spirituality, for the record.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
My spirituality, if I could be said to possess or experience such a thing, is much the same as someone admiring a piece of artwork. I admire the universe, and I admire life. But I worship neither. Worship, to me, is abhorrent, little more than glorified discrimination. No friend would allow themselves to be exalted above other friends. And that means that anyone asking to be worshipped is likely to be no friend of mine. So I guess I'm half-spiritual, in that I'm willing to take notice and appreciate, like thanking someone for a cup of coffee or telling them their tie looks nice, but I refuse to bow down.

I'm posting this as one example of atheist spirituality, for the record.

I get it, I really do.

I was a worshiper, well, still am.

But there are different ways to worship.
thanks giving being the most important.

I wonder if surrender helps one spiritually, it has been proven that prayer and meditation help one physically and mentally, I wonder about surrender and worship.

a reply to: Stormdancer777

The working definition of worship appears to be:

show reverence and adoration for (a deity); honor with religious rites.

See, this is discrimination. It tends to instill an impression of inferiority regarding anything that is not this particular deity or whatever. Anything, or anyone, that is not this deity is instantly worth less. And any being who approves or encourages that sort of degradation is most certainly not someone I care to bow down to.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

Let me try and share my experience of surrender and worship, it takes you into a different realm, opens awareness, timelessness, ecstasy,

Music, dance, like the Sufi mystics or the shaman.

Try it sometime, you just want to stay in that sacred place,

a reply to: AfterInfinity

It tends to instill an impression of inferiority regarding anything that is not this particular deity or whatever.

I don't feel that way.

But I understand that many do.

I think the disconnect is people needing to put things in boxes that already have names.

If you read through some of the "atheist" ideals, you see they are no atheist at all.
An atheist doesn't believe in a creator or afterlife.

What we see here are folks that just don't know and aren't ready to accept something blindly.

Define God.

Is it a HE, a SHE, an idea, a cloud, the universe? I am pretty sure none of us know for sure. And thinking of the immensity of what God could represent, we could be a tiny insignificant part of the big picture. But, as long as we accept that something larger than us directs our souls, then we are on the spiritual side. (IMHO)

originally posted by: network dude
If you read through some of the "atheist" ideals, you see they are no atheist at all.
An atheist doesn't believe in a creator or afterlife.

Define atheist.

a reply to: Stormdancer777

This is very much me. I have no need to believe in beards and bellies, but I DO believe in a higher source. Something bigger than we are. Not a deity.
I don't need religion to make me be a happy and good person. My goal is, as the article says, to live a happy and healthy life, while enriching the lives of those around me. To live is human, to feel is divine. Not just doing what you're supposed to because you were threatened with hell and damnation... but to do what is right by feeling. By knowing at your very core (your soul if you will) that you are adding to the universe and it's positive energy. By raising the vibrations around you.
I believe we are all made up of energy and vibrations. In fact, you could go as far as saying that reincarnation HAS to exist in some form. I say this, because energy doesn't die. It doesn't stop and it doesn't end.
It is a scientific fact we are made up of energy and vibrations. Yes, energy can slow and transform... but it doesn't disappear. Our memories are vibrations and energy. Think about that on a much deeper level.
So, when we die. What happens? One idea is - our energy is released from the cells that bind it. Proof in decay, etc. And it is absorbed into the Earth, into bugs, into the air. Whatever... it is transferred, if not transformed. Taking the most basic viewpoint (in the cases of "proven" reincarnation) - a fighter pilot from WWII crashes and perishes. The grass around him grows, absorbing his energy. An animal eats that grass, absorbing his energy. A human eats that animal (or it's many years predecessor as energy would just continue transferring), absorbing his energy. It is passed through his sperm or her egg and a child is born who is sensitive to energy and vibrations, and those "memories" are passed on.
It's a lot like the idea we are drinking the same water the dinosaurs drank.

Anyway, that is a little beyond the basic subject at hand.

The article is a very good idea of the direction a vast majority of the people I know have begun to feel.
Funny thing, I'm from Utah, and yes - I was born LDS (Mormon). But fell away from religion when I was 12 years old. One question put me on the path to question everything and find my own belief. And boy was it a ride. I asked my bishop "If God is Jesus's father, who is God's father? And His father? And His father? What about their mothers?" And my bishop, who OBVIOUSLY couldn't answer that question, said "Some things we just aren't supposed to know." A simple, honest answer. And it completely destroyed my 12 year old little brain's belief in religion. I started to think and question everything I was being told. I became very rebellious and difficult (at least according to my parents.... they really just couldn't handle a child thinking for herself). It was a brutal process to say the least. And one that was finally completed when I went through Massage Therapy School when I was 24. Now, I deal mainly with sports and injuries - I'm not much of a Shiatsu or Energy Therapist... and for a reason. I feel too intensely. I have to work hard at blocking other people's energies, emotions, and vibrations. Anytime I do energy work.... I have to cleanse my room, my body... everything. Or I hold onto it all, and eventually become as sick and in as much pain as the individual I helped. Doing more Western Therapies is much easier to block those things.
I truly think people who are "Spiritual Atheists" as the article puts, are very much a like in that we are very Empathetic. We feel.
But the point of that comment - saying I'm from Utah - less than 50% of Salt Lake City's population is Mormon. The majority think very much like I do. Free Thinkers, Hippies, Atheists, Yoga Junkies, Tree Huggers - whatever.... the basic belief is there is something bigger than we are. As long as we do right by others and ourselves - we have achieved what we need to in this life and set a very good building block for the next.

Surrender To A Higher Power
: to yield to the power, control, or possession of another upon compulsion or demand
b : to give up completely or agree to forgo especially in favor of another
2
a : to give (oneself) up into the power of another especially as a prisoner
b : to give (oneself) over to something (as an influence)
intransitive verb
: to give oneself up into the power of another : yield

The Power Of Surrender

REALLY SEE that through choosing to consciously and consistently activate the Power of Surrender in EVERY aspect of your life on a consistent basis; you'll ignite, stir, initiate and "awaken to" a form of Real Power that impacts and enhances EVERY aspect of your life not only in a very pleasing and desirable kind of way but in a FAR REACHING kind of way as well.

In a "seemingly unfathomable and incomprehensible" far reaching kind of way" that transcends the limitations of the physical and finite forms of life and power that so many focus on, often fear and believe they're limited by.

That's yet one of MANY reasons why learning about, understanding and choosing to use the Power of Surrender is so important for experiencing the greatest quality of life possible.

And in MANY cases, as I can personally attest, a willingness to surrender can enable and allow things to unfold in "seemingly miraculous and magical" ways.

In ways that transcend space/time actually. In other words, there are times when the power of surrender is fully entered into that you can see REALLY BIG and seemingly impossible miracles unfold in "the blink of an eye."
www.abundance-and-happiness.com...
In fact you could say that The Power of Surrender has FAR REACHING effects that DO transcend space/time as we know and understand it and it's power extends well beyond the physical and finite world of shape and form as most know and understand it as well.

Now I am just looking this stuff up myself, I never questioned the power behind worship and surrender,

Researchers have found that in order for the brain to take in information and experience, it needs to be calm, open and accepting. It shuts down when it’s bored, for example. Positive emotion — such as engagement — is a key part of taking in information and experience. It is the price of admission, rather than a function that happens separately in another part of the brain. Not only that, but it’s also clear that the more senses the information and experience engage, the deeper and more memorable the experience.

People in the congregation were using several different parts of their brain at the same time, creating connective networks among their nerve cells.

Parishioners’ brains were active, engaging, creating something that wasn’t there before. That’s high-level, powerful brain activity.
www.ucobserver.org...

Let Go of Control: How to Learn the Art of Surrender

tinybuddha.com...

A Sense Of Oneness With The Universe

Newberg did that with Michael Baime. Baime is a doctor at the University of Pennsylvania and a Tibetan Buddhist who has meditated at least an hour a day for the past 40 years. During a peak meditative experience, Baime says, he feels oneness with the universe, and time slips away.

"It's as if the present moment expands to fill all of eternity," he explains, "that there has never been anything but this eternal now."

When Baime meditated in Newberg's brain scanner, his brain mirrored those feelings. As expected, his frontal lobes lit up on the screen: Meditation is sheer concentration, after all. But what fascinated Newberg was that Baime's parietal lobes went dark.


"This is an area that normally takes our sensory information, tries to create for us a sense of ourselves and orient that self in the world," he explains. "When people lose their sense of self, feel a sense of oneness, a blurring of the boundary between self and other, we have found decreases in activity in that area."

Newberg found that result not only with Baime, but also with other monks he scanned. It was the same when he imaged the brains of Franciscan nuns praying and Sikhs chanting. They all felt the same oneness with the universe. When it comes to the brain, Newberg says, spiritual experience is spiritual experience.

"There is no Christian, there is no Jewish, there is no Muslim, it's just all one," Newberg says

and in response to benevolent heretic

"Our brains are continuously being sculpted, whether you like it or not, wittingly or unwittingly."

"Just two months' practice among rank amateurs led to a systematic change in both the brain as well as the immune system in more positive directions," he said.

www.npr.org...

don't want anyone to miss this

When it comes to the brain, Newberg says, spiritual experience is spiritual experience.

"There is no Christian, there is no Jewish, there is no Muslim, it's just all one," Newberg says

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
and in response to benevolent heretic

"Our brains are continuously being sculpted, whether you like it or not, wittingly or unwittingly."

Not sure specifically what you're responding to, but I agree that our brains are constantly changing.

On surrender, I practice it all the time. I meditate and feel "one with the universe". I also regularly practice letting go of control and accepting "what is". (I have to practice it regularly because I am naturally a control freak of sorts). I think one of the best things we can do for ourselves and our loved ones is let go of control and live in the present instead of regretting the past or worrying about the future.

I do not worship anything, however.

a reply to: CeeRZ

I am a Reiki practitioner, so I know what you are saying,