Sudan woman faces death for apostasy

originally posted by: MarsIsRed
a reply to: intrptr

Incidentally, I'm well aware that these acts don't necessarily represent all of Islam. But, and it's a big BUT, Islam itself should actively and vocally dissociate itself with such acts, yet it chooses not to - it always seems to stay very quiet and shuffle around in the background, almost lending credence to these sick acts. As I said in my first post "You would have thought that after all the bad crap that gets thrown at Islam, they would have learned how to keep their house in order, but alas no."

Actually many Muslim groups denounce acts like this and other acts like 9/11 and so on. But good luck hearing about it when you are living in a nation whose MSM works to promote Islamophobia.

a reply to: MarsIsRed

I'm not sure that I would describe an entire countries legal system as "errant behavior".

Mixing church and state is the wrong approach, regardless of the religion behind it. Something we are just as guilty of here in the US, by the way.

Even more so. This judge stayed an execution of one woman. Compare that to the decimation of entire nations. Kind of hypocritical, don't you think?

a reply to: markosity1973

Exactly, here in the West, we've educated ourselves out of these barbaric ways.

Of course we have. That is why we have a for profit prison system.

Islam does not want to be educated in these godforsaken countries.

Of course they don't and when they do we kill them and install a dictator of our choosing. Like we did in Libya.

There seems to be a parallel to ancient Roman society and the uneducated northern European tribes who ultimately sacked Rome going on with the West and Islam.

What caused the fall of Rome was internal greed and corruption and that is what is happening in the west. You should worry more about that than the "threat" of Islam.

originally posted by: buster2010

Not every country in the West is as perverted as America. Yet we are all tarred with the same brush because of her mistakes.

Here in Australia Islam is pushing for the right to practise Sharia law. We've had Immams make claims that Australia will be a Muslim nation in 50 years.

Make no mistakes, they have an agenda.

You can try and spin this however you want, but Islam wants to take over and is like a circling buzzard waiting to pick the carcass of our society.

a reply to: intrptr

Mixing church and state is the wrong approach, regardless of the religion behind it. Something we are just as guilty of here in the US, by the way.

The US has a state religion, Zionism.
Before someone can get elected, they have to go to Jerusalem and worship their idol.

originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: markosity1973
A quick and honest fact for you; Religion will never die off completely. There is a primal need in many of us to believe in a higher power.

No, Christianity is not perfect, but the alternative (Islam) is much worse.

Yep, Christianity is great example of tolerance and best alternative to Islam... really? Don't you think that you are a bit biased when you make a statement like that.

There are many primal needs people have, but we learn how to control them and how to live with or without them.

You can't be serious to promote religion that is unable to accept fact that evolution is not mere hypothesis, but rather fact proven theory.

As for Islam, I am not defending it either, IMHO world would be better place without those 2 religions, and some posts here just show what really 'inter-religion tolerance' really mean and what kind of phobia is created - to prevent 'other one from gaining ground'... This kind of phobia lead us in Crusades back in past...

PS. Never say - never.

Just look at how far we got since we got religion under control... where would we as specie be if that happened before dark ages?!

Quite simply;

Go spend 5 years living in Sudan and then if you make it back alive, we'll revisit this conversation.

P.S Atheists are terrorists according to Islam. Have fun with that.

originally posted by: intrptr
Mixing church and state is the wrong approach, regardless of the religion behind it.

That we agree on. The trouble with some places is that they want to do away with state and replace it entirely with religion. A particularly bonkers brand of religion at that.

originally posted by: MarsIsRed

originally posted by: intrptr
Mixing church and state is the wrong approach, regardless of the religion behind it.

That we agree on. The trouble with some places is that they want to do away with state and replace it entirely with religion. A particularly bonkers brand of religion at that.

We've already lived through the mistake of christianity trying to be a political power. Religion needs to exist to take care of our spritual needs. State needs to exist to take care of our practical needs. The two should not mix.

originally posted by: markosity1973
Quite simply;

Go spend 5 years living in Sudan and then if you make it back alive, we'll revisit this conversation.

P.S Atheists are terrorists according to Islam. Have fun with that.

Seriously? And I should live there because I said that I don't like any religion to be used as common law?!

Interestingly, I believe you are one who recommends better alternative - Christianity.

According to some religious ATS members (1,2,...), I see that atheism here is viewed as satanism or communism... how is that better then in Sudan? Ohhh, wait, it is better because religion is not on power here, at least not yet, even some extremes here are pushing their agendas...

So, care to explain why would you wish me to live 5 years in Sudan? How is that better then my rights being violated here in USA?

a reply to: SuperFrog

Frankly, we'd not even be having this conversation under Sharia law. I'd either be in jail for being clean shaven or hanging from a tree for being gay.

You would be hanging next to me for the crime of not believing in Allah after being whipped several hundred times of course. You can't be too kind and let someone just hang for their sins after all. After we're both dead, they'll have a big party and thank god that they killed 2 more infidels.

Sure, our society and religion is not perfect, but you really need to understand how bad islam and sharia law is.

I know you dream of a world free of religion, but it aint gonna happen in our lifetime. Just be glad that here in the west I'm cool with your atheist ways, i just expect the same respect for my christian belief system.

This is a double thread. To be fair I should at least post a link to re-direct to the other. www.abovetopsecret.com...
thanks

a reply to: MarsIsRed

that is coming out from mouth of BBC. so but do you really think that healthy people follow a religion that says let execute a woman because she has converted simply while she is pregnant ! this reminds me the medieval.
the concept of apostasy has special specifications. For sure this woman should not get executed. She is not apostate. There is a difference between apostasy and conversion. apostasy is some sort of betray. like a government who punishes those who betray. But conversion is related to the personal life of people.

originally posted by: MarsIsRed
I'm not sure that I would describe an entire countries legal system as "errant behaviour".

OK one errant country then. Or two. Or three. Or, hmmm, how many are there that do the same kind of thing?

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: intrptr

Mixing church and state is the wrong approach, regardless of the religion behind it. Something we are just as guilty of here in the US, by the way.

The US has a state religion, Zionism.
Before someone can get elected, they have to go to Jerusalem and worship their idol.

Wow. you said nothing but the truth.

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: SuperFrog

Frankly, we'd not even be having this conversation under Sharia law. I'd either be in jail for being clean shaven or hanging from a tree for being gay.

You would be hanging next to me for the crime of not believing in Allah after being whipped several hundred times of course. You can't be too kind and let someone just hang for their sins after all. After we're both dead, they'll have a big party and thank god that they killed 2 more infidels.

Sure, our society and religion is not perfect, but you really need to understand how bad islam and sharia law is.

I know you dream of a world free of religion, but it aint gonna happen in our lifetime. Just be glad that here in the west I'm cool with your atheist ways, i just expect the same respect for my christian belief system.

Yes, this conversation would not happen if we live under Sharia law, but how different that would be if our current law is based on Christianity and bible, as some extremist here in USA would like to believe. Does burning at stake or some other deaths provided by bible sounds better to you?

Dr. Tyson in one of his speeches pointed danger of path we (I assume you live in USA) are heading, and lessons we should learn from no other than Islam:



Interestingly, just like in his version of Cosmos, Dr. Tyson is able through otherwise not connected example point to dangers of were are we heading - through naming rights.

I respect everyone rights to have their own religion, but I will never respect someone's right to judge others based on their religion/absence of religion. This is what is happening in Sudan, the same some try to establish in USA by adding word God to everything possible...

a reply to: MarsIsRed

A particularly bonkers brand of religion at that.

Aren't they all "bonkers"?

Organized man made religion is the root of all money… I mean evil. its the first lessons we learn in our childhood.

Just believe and obey or else.

The state loves that whether combined with it or not.

a reply to: SuperFrog

I respect everyone rights to have their own religion, but I will never respect someone's right to judge others based on their religion/absence of religion.

There. The most dangerous kinds of zealots and resulting conflicts are born right friggin there.

After all God is on our side and every other religion is devil worship.

Then combine Our God and a flag, roll it into patriotism and all hell is possible.

Pat Robertson has a book on islam and its free.
I haven't read it though.

What I find odd is that there are many Islamic nations on this planet. Are there any Christian nations? It seems any time somebody claims their nation to be Christian they are labeled islamaphobic or racist.

And also with all the Islamic nations in the world, why to Muslim refugees immigrate to non muslim nations and want to turn them into islamic nations?

originally posted by: tinner07
What I find odd is that there are many Islamic nations on this planet. Are there any Christian nations? It seems any time somebody claims their nation to be Christian they are labeled islamaphobic or racist.

And also with all the Islamic nations in the world, why to Muslim refugees immigrate to non muslim nations and want to turn them into islamic nations?

Excellent point. There is no such thing as a Christian nation (although the vatican technically qualifies)

The biggest danger of all this anti theism is that it creates apathy among agnostics and those who get talked out of christianity by smooth talking 'experts' who charismatically portray a picture of a better world without god.

Then along comes Islam that they know nothing about and sucks them in because they never really stopped believing in God, they just got put off Christianity with all the hate talk. With their pseudo biblical nonsence, and their 'Islam means peace' bollicks they trick well meaning but less well educated people into joining their ranks.

Next thing you know you've got western girls calling my partner racist and making official complaints to his employer because he was curious and asked why they pray toward Mecca. That really happened, luckily his boss told the girl to go away, but this is how it starts.