Is the Judeo-Christian God evil?

a reply to: danielsil18

www.gotquestions.org...

Read the whole article. Hitler murdering people simply because he felt they were undesirable, and God, the giver of life, taking someones life for disobeying His command. Uzzah knew God, and he knew God could not lie. He warned them not to touch the holy objects or they would surely die.

a reply to: danielsil18

- If god knew the future: then god would have known that Uzzah would touch the Ark of the covenant to keep it from falling.

It has been calculated that if there actually was an ark built according to the Old Testament instructions, it would have been impossible to carry, at least in the way described.

Reminds me of the movie, The Italian Job, where supposedly they drag all this ridiculously heavy gold out of the water and carry it in tiny boats or jet skis or something.

It's just a story that supposedly happened when they would have been writing it in hieroglyphics if anyone was recording it.
It's meant to make a point that the Law is not to be trifled with.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

But god knew what would happen, and didn't do anything to prevent it. God also could have taken the ark by himself to prevent all of this.

If he was loving and merciful he could have prevented it, or at least forgive. But instead he kills.

a reply to: Aedaeum

You are using the English definition. I am using the literal definition of the Greek word metanoia: change of mind, repentance.

Lost in translation? Where do you think we get our English translations from? We get them from the earliest manuscripts we have. The majority of which are written in Greek or Hebrew. When you have a problem interpreting something you study the Greek. You realize the Bible wasn't passed on like the Telephone Game and you end up with a huge jumbled sentence at the end. The books of the Bible were written. Then copied. Then those copies were copied and so on. That is why the NT has so many manuscripts behind it compared to other ancient documents. It was well preserved. If its lost in translation you should have some kind of documentary evidence.

I would agree the Word is Jesus Christ. List where you believe they are different, because I cannot find something if it is not there.

originally posted by: danielsil18
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

But god knew what would happen, and didn't do anything to prevent it. God also could have taken the ark by himself to prevent all of this.

If he was loving and merciful he could have prevented it, or at least forgive. But instead he kills.

God warned Uzzah. Uzzah knew the consequences of touching it, if you knew God could not lie and he had given that command why test Him? If God prevented Uzzah from making that choice would Uzzah have had free will?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Uzzah had the same free will as someone who has a gun pointed at him and is told "do as I say or I'll kill you".

If god truly gave people free will then he wouldn't be killing people for making the wrong decisions. What kind of free will is it when you are told that you can make any decision you want but if you make the wrong decisions you are going to be killed?

As for god: this god knew the future and knew he was going to kill Uzzah. Had god being loving and merciful he would have prevented it.

I would have prevented it so Uzzah can continue living his life. Makes me better than that god doesn't it.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

You are using the English definition. I am using the literal definition of the Greek word metanoia: change of mind, repentance.

Repentance is an English word, so you would use the English definition.

The Greek word metanoia means repentance, when translated into English.

You have to watch out for the fallacy that figuring out the "real" meaning of a Greek word is to take it apart and then translate the root words that were compiled to form the "new" word, the one in question.
When a new Greek word is "coined" (meaning: coming into common usage) it takes on a meaning of its own, regardless of the literal meanings of the parts that were used to make it.

Until everyone believes in GOD and accepts his son then death will remain our way out of here. Only the good die young unless you choose to stay.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Text Can a good God let evil exist?

You could answer that theological question with bible knowledge. God created evil. Evil did not exist till God created it. There is no such thing as a bad God. Only in the eyes of people does that idea exist. No He will not not let evil exist forever. Evil will eventually be destroyed.

What if there was no such thing as evil? Would that mean that all people would be good? Nope- That idea could not be. Most people understand that was the case in the garden and it was not the case in point. Do you realize that Adam and Eve were both evil before they had knowledge of their evil? Think about that real deeply. Do you realize that the tree of knowledge of good and evil was not the tree to do good and evil. Re read Genesis 2:9 and 17. Adam and Eve had already sinned before they ate of the tree of awareness of what they did.

Now what would be the case if they had not eaten of the tree of knowledge and the human race was never allowed to have knowledge of good and evil. Well think about it. Wouldn't people abuse each other with no conviction of evil? Love would not abound and hate would fill the earth more so than now. More than all of that would be the fact that heaven would not be the central theme of God to His creation. If God created a creation of this sort then would not God be evil?

What if God had not created evil in the first place and His creation could never do evil? Then what? Well then He would have a creation of robots doing nothing but good. Right? But then these robots could not have a true love to do good because they were programed to do nothing but good. If we were programmed to do no evil the we could never have the knowledge that we are nothing but good. Naturally we would not know true love or devotion to the Creator because this comes from free will. And if that be the case then we would not truly love the Creator. We would simply be programmed to do as He programmed.

So evil has its place in creation. I could go on and on but I think you have my point. I'm an old guy and my wife is long gone and gadding about in heaven but I have a little pooch named Moses. I call him Mo. I would hate to have Mo programmed to simply do as I say. What life would Mo have if all he could do is what I say he can do? No more digging holes in the yard or chewing on my slipper or barking at one in the early morning and me jumping out of bed with a heart attack. Yet when he winds down in the evening he crawls up on my lap and looks me in the eye and goes to sleep. That's really what it 's all about and that's what God is all about isn't it? I forgive Mo for all the things he does and God forgives me for all what I do. That's free will and that came from the tree.

a reply to: danielsil18

I completely agree with you, God could have prevented the Arc from falling over in the first place. However, God likes to make examples of people and circumstances. He died to prove to the others that touching the Arc, meant death. This is my opinion of course.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

The over-arching inconsistency I'm talking about is the character of God himself. He changes from old testament to new testament and if you don't see that, then that's okay. We all have our own point of view

As far as your Greek translation of the word repentance... The word "repentance" or "repent" seems to change definitions from the old testament to the new, but if you study the context, you'll see they are the same. The bible requires us to read into the words; they are spiritual concepts. If we were all to take the bible word-for-word, literally, nothing could be gained from it but bits of philosophical wisdom. The bible is an entirely subjective text, which requires spiritual discernment.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

It doesn't matter how many times people read the bible, the Father has to draw him toward Himself, in order for us to believe. Even our own belief in Him, is a gift from the Father.

Let me leave you with an image of the lexicon regarding the word repent in Greek:


As you can see from the context, this word means a change of heart (well, actually it means a lot more then that, but for simplicities sake, we'll leave it at that ). Here's a link to the old testament Hebrew word for repent: www.blueletterbible.org...

a reply to: Aedaeum

If that was the reason then i wouldnt call it loving or caring. Its more like what an evil dictator would do.

a reply to: danielsil18

That would be true if death was actually the end of life, but it is not

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

The term Judeo-Christian is an oxymoron.

a reply to: OptimusSubprime

So is mixing the OT with the NT... but Christians do it

a reply to: Seede

Do you realize that Adam and Eve were both evil before they had knowledge of their evil? Think about that real deeply. Do you realize that the tree of knowledge of good and evil was not the tree to do good and evil. Re read Genesis 2:9 and 17. Adam and Eve had already sinned before they ate of the tree of awareness of what they did.

I don't think that any of this that you are saying is true.
You have no scriptural base for your ideas, you just make bare statements with nothing to back them up.

According to Bible, the universe existed as an inhospitable place that God had to strive against to bring order to it, before it could be a livable environment.
That means things are naturally evil, not that God made it that way, it just is, that is the nature of it, if God did not intervene to make it better.

The knowledge that it is talking about in the tree of knowledge is a practical skill, so it is not just an awareness, of evil, but the ability to do evil.

It doesn't say that God put the tree of knowledge in the garden, but that it was just there, and God warned Adam about it.

Where it says "I create evil" in Isaiah, it just means that there is no other opposing god out there creating it.
It is talking about the situation where Babylon is overthrown by the Persians.
It was evil, for the Babylonians, but good for the Persians.
It wasn't that there was a good god for the Persians or a bad god for the Babylonians.
It was the same one god who did both.
But, ultimately, to cause blessings on the world in general.

God is Light and there is no Darkness within him (1 John 1:5).

God is The Spirit and The Spirit Gives Life (John 6:63).


God does not kill people or hurt people. Death and pain comes from Sin but God gives Eternal Life (Romans 6:23).

When a person follows darkness/sin they are walking away from The Light of Life that shines through all mankind (John 1:4).


The only choice we have is to follow the body and its selfishness which destroys self and others, or to follow The Spirit within, Our Connection to God, Actions of Love, Mercy, and Charity towards others - The Holy Spirit, The Light of Life within The Temple of The Body (1 Corinthians 6:19-20)

This is why, it is said that "Evil shall slay the wicked" (Psalm 34:21), God is Life, but Evil is Death which is why God uses Evil to fight against Evil.

This is also why Christ warned us to "turn the other cheek" and to "forgive", so that we won't fall into this sort of thing.

TextI don't think that any of this that you are saying is true. You have no scriptural base for your ideas, you just make bare statements with nothing to back them up.

Once again -- I do not make up anything. I read the KJV bible in English and that is what this bible says. Whether you want to believe another bible which contradicts the KJV bible is most certainly your prerogative but according to these scriptures what I have said is theological truth.

TextAccording to Bible, the universe existed as an inhospitable place that God had to strive against to bring order to it, before it could be a livable environment.

Show me the scriptures that say that God had to strive. That is your own idea of God. In the beginning of this terrestrial creation this terrestrial existence was a mass of mud and water. The universe did not exist at this point so how could God have to strive or struggle in His creating it?

Genesis 1:1 teaches that in the beginning of this creation that God created our earth and its heaven. The universe did not exist at this time.

Genesis 1:6-8 says that firmament (universe) was then created.

Genesis 1:14-18 then tells us that this firmament is the second heaven called the universe. This is where the heavenly bodies are placed. Actually we are taught that the second heaven (universe) is created in connection with this world but after this world. So in effect. the bible teaches us that this world was created first and then the universe was created after this world was created but Torah does not describe the universe as being chaotic. On the contrary, the universe was but an empty house waiting for its heavenly bodies to be placed. Naturally the creation was without creation of life forms so in that manner you can say that it was inhospitable but it was not chaotic in the sense that God had to fight to overcome. On the contrary all forms of creation obeyed the Word of God and nothing says that God had to struggle or be in danger of any sort. That is absolutely foolish and not scriptural at all.

Text That means things are naturally evil, not that God made it that way, it just is, that is the nature of it, if God did not intervene to make it better.

There is no such thing in the bible which says that anything that exists is natural happening. Everything that exists was created by God and John 1:3 verifies that nothing exists without God creating it. (That is the nature of it) is not biblical and another of your misconceptions.

Text The knowledge that it is talking about in the tree of knowledge is a practical skill, so it is not just an awareness, of evil, but the ability to do evil.

Eve already had the ability to sin just as I had said before. She did not need the fruit of the tree to sin and the scriptures say exactly that. She already knew how to sin or physically commit sin. Eve embraced evil when she decided to eat of the tree. She already had that ability. You are telling me that the bible says that Eve did not have the ability to sin before she ate of the tree. The tree of knowledge gave her the ability to sin? That is your premise? You are completely wrong in your understanding. Eve sinned as she decided to disobey. Knowing about sin is not embracing sin but we can embrace sin by the mind as well as the body. Eve sinned before she ate of the tree and then became aware of the ramifications of that action after she ate of that tree.

Text It doesn't say that God put the tree of knowledge in the garden, but that it was just there, and God warned Adam about it.

Are you saying that the tree of knowledge simply grew in the garden of its own accord? Are you implying that God did not create it and place it in the garden for that specific purpose? What do you think about the tree of life being in the garden also? It just happened and was for no purpose by God? You have a very strange interpretation of scripture and seem to have your own bible???

Text Where it says "I create evil" in Isaiah, it just means that there is no other opposing god out there creating it. It is talking about the situation where Babylon is overthrown by the Persians. It was evil, for the Babylonians, but good for the Persians. It wasn't that there was a good god for the Persians or a bad god for the Babylonians. It was the same one god who did both. But, ultimately, to cause blessings on the world in general.

In this thought which starts with God expounding His own identity, He is clearly explaining to Israel what He is and is capable of doing. I understand the situation and the reason that it was written in that manner but it also is saying that God makes the statement so that all will understand that He did create evil and that it not just a happening or natural event as you and most people suppose. You also should be aware that in the days of Isaiah that most people of Abraham's God also believed that evil was a natural inclination in all people. Here God sets the record straight in saying that He creates evil. Evil is a knowledge but sin is an action of both mind and body after it embraces evil. In fact some Jews of today still cling to that belief that there is no satanic evil force and that all people have been created with the evil inclination. God is reminding us that He created this evil and that it is for a purpose. Just because Isaiah tells us this, does not mean that evil was created for and in the days of Isaiah. Your Babylonian and Persian world did not exist when evil was created. Evil was first embrace by the heavenly host (angels) and has nothing to do God creating evil in the days of the Babylonians or Persians. So when God expounds the fact that He creates evil He is telling people that evil has a purpose and is not found in all aspects of creation. To better understand this return to the Genesis creation and see that after the creation of the sixth day everything was good. This includes people also. God is saying that evil exists because He created it.

a reply to: Seede

Everything that exists was created by God and John 1:3 verifies that nothing exists without God creating it.

It doesn't say that.
It is saying that everything that was created was created through the Logos.

It does not exclude the idea that there could be things that were not created.

In the beginning of this terrestrial creation this terrestrial existence was a mass of mud and water.

What is "this terrestrial creation"?
It uses the word for earth in a general sense, to mean whatever we think of the environment that we live in, which to the ancient mind would be the universe.
There was no ocean or land or sky, it was just a formless void, an abyss (the deep).
God's spirit was "hovering" over the watery expanse.
God was striving against the forces of chaos, to create order.
Out of that mass of cosmic "stuff", order was created, where lands and oceans and sky had boundaries, in other-words, distinction and definition.

a reply to: Seede

Whether you want to believe another bible which contradicts the KJV bible is most certainly your prerogative but according to these scriptures what I have said is theological truth.

The ones you were alluding to earlier?
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
(2011 NIV)
The King James Version says "evil", and so does several other translations.
It's poetic hyperbole.

On the contrary all forms of creation obeyed the Word of God and nothing says that God had to struggle or be in danger of any sort. That is absolutely foolish and not scriptural at all.

Revelation 12:
7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
(2011 NIV)
"War" is strife.
The Dragon represents the chaotic universe.
The beasts are the resurrection of the Leviathan and the Behemoth that were subdued by God during the creation process.
That was strife, then, and then you see it again in the Apocalypse, trying to come back, and needing to be beat down.

You are telling me that the bible says that Eve did not have the ability to sin before she ate of the tree.

I'm telling you what the words say.
The words are the reality, not the hypotheticals of the daily life of story characters.
You are acting like these are real people who you can have acting out in various ways according to your own scheme.
You can't take a parable and say, "Well what if I have this person do something else".
It's a thought provoking scenario that has a fixed object lesson to be derived from it.

Are you saying that the tree of knowledge simply grew in the garden of its own accord? Are you implying that God did not create it and place it in the garden for that specific purpose? What do you think about the tree of life being in the garden also?

It nowhere says in the Bible that God put the tree there to be a snare to trap the people of the garden.
Apparently it was something that was just there, or it grew there on its own after The Lord decided to place His trees there.
In Luke Jesus says that it is inevitable that there are stumbling blocks.
According to the story, The Lord could not remove either one of the trees, before or after the ignoring of The Lord's warning.

You have a very strange interpretation of scripture and seem to have your own bible???

Not really.
It is a common interpretation among scholars who study the Hebrew.
If you look at Genesis 1-11: A Handbook on the Hebrew Text (Baylor Handbook on the Hebrew Bible),by Barry Bandstra, you will see that he translates it the same way that I do, that The Lord placed His trees, then mentions that those other two trees were there, in the midst of the garden, in separate clauses.
Other commentaries mention the same thing, that you can read it as two separate things not necessarily having one as part of the other.