Parents of ATS: I need your help...In a desperate way, I need your help!

a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

let him have a computer in his room, with internet, dont allow him to know you can find out what he does with it, allow him to think he has privacy on it,

i suspect he has an internal issue he is wrestling with that he can not tell anyone for fear of judgement, give him the internet and he will google it, he will research it, its natural for us to try and see if there are others going through issues we have ourselves, and it is very stressful when you dont know if your the only one with an issue or not, if im right then once he googles it and finds others like himself it will bring him some relief, his behavior might improve, also if you do check his history you can finally find out what it is he isnt telling you, whatever it turns out to be accept and love him no matter what, dont try to force him to change the way he is against his will, it wont work and will make things worse.


you see he is just entering into puberty, thats always when behavior problems emerge, for various reasons, sometimes it really is just hormones, other times its dormant obsessions that start becoming dominant in the mind,


my parents also had no idea why my behavior did a 180 degree turn when i hit puberty, the above i speak out of hindsight and experience, the internet free'd my mind too, but i had to make use of it at a library, parents wouldnt let me have my own computer, that was quite a tormentous few years before i thought up using a library computer. i improved after that.

originally posted by: w8tn4it
I would take him out of public schools and home school him. It's the only way he won't be drawn into that clicke mentality. Separate cause from disease. IMO

Misdiagnose cause and make the disease worse, you mean?

a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

I would say to get the book "Making children mind without losing yours" by Dr.Kevin Leman.I once had an 8 year old that was out of control,took him to a shrink and told them I wouldn't put him on meds.They said he was ADHD and it was behavioral. I had to find a new way to discipline him. I was lucky cause I had my car radio on while driving to work and heard this guy plugging his book. When you read it,it makes sense is all I can say.Good luck to you,if that doesn't work take him for counseling.

a reply to: ladyteeny

Wow...what courage! I commend you in all sincerity, I really do. That's pretty awesome that you shared your issues with your adult child. For me reading that was exemplary. The fact that you could come to this thread, this site and tell us your problems with your adult child is very incredible in my opinion. Hats tipped to you Maam

What I gathered from your post is that it doesn't really matter what we do for our kids, how good we are to them nor what we give/provide them...maybe not even what we say or teach them...they are what they are and will do what they do. I get that and I understand that. To each his own so to speak. Right?

However for me, I don't give up and I never will...on any child. I always felt/feel that there was/is a better future for my children. I am still willing to do anything (to me as a Mom, anything is within my power) for my children as long as I nor they get into "legal" trouble. Kick some ass if you have too, buck the system and express yourself, even to me...Mom.

I dislike defeat...although I was introduced to defeat as my children have been, I... nor will they submit to defeat. It's not in my thoughts...it's not in our DNA. Defeat (the act of) should never be in my children's thoughts...ever, that includes grandchildren that I don't have yet and their children too. I was raised by one of the first 100 Green Berets in US history. Defeat means nothing to my family. Structure, discipline, morals, love and loyalty is what my family strives on. It pushes us all to be better and one will never let the other fall.

I applaud you for all the sacrifices you have made for you son...I can hear it...I can sense that your family has turned over backwards for him. Just don't ever give up...never give up...ever. He's not a lost cause.

Thank you for keeping it real and as a mother to another mother, I hope you will always hold your head high. Thank you for your input.

Who knows...maybe one of these days, I'll be the Mom reaching out for help. I just hope that won't happen.

a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

Lots of replies, and advice. Some good, some not so good.
First off, he is still so very young. All the posts about puberty and him starting to grow up and needing to act like it, etc...regardless of his size he still has an eleven year old brain.
Now, I know only what you have posted and I will make suggestions based on that.
You seem to provide a loving stable home and care for your childrens well being and keep track of their social circles and activities and that is all good. Very good IMHO.Some may say that is over parenting but I do not.
First off, the problem of why he is acting this way needs to be identified. He may not wish to disclose it to you or your husband. Another member mentioned Big Brothers and I would recommend that. I would also recommend seeking a therapist, if for nothing else his anger especially towards his sibling. He is only 11, and if not nipped in the bud right now, it will escalate by the time he is 13, and at 16 well...let's not go there.
I do not recall reading if you had tried taking privileges away from him, but seeing his age I think this needs to happen. It seems as though he has lost respect for authority and that comes from "giving in" to his demands in order to prevent a fight. First rule of parenting :If you find yourself in a fight of wills with a child, NEVER EVER LOSE! For every demand you gave in to, he gained a little more leverage, and a little more power. You say he plays sports after school and that is where he is socializing with problem boys? That is a privilege. Easily taken away if he shows disrespect. Your job is to provide the basics, an education and show him love, even if it's tough love. He does need to learn that his temperament will not be tolerated.Whatever it takes. I commend you for asking for help. Being a parent is the toughest job ever and it's one that we most want others to see we are succeeding at. I have brought 9 children into this world and one boy gave me the same issue at 13 that you are dealing with now. Despite all I did, I lost him to his darker side. I had too much pride to ask for help. Only now at 20, are we rebuilding our relationship. He told me that he acted out because I wasn't strict ENOUGH. I didn't push him hard enough. Didn't say NO enough. All the things I thought I was doing right, I was doing wrong. I was raising him as I had his older siblings not realizing he needed MORE of me till it was too late.My best advice..act now. I see you are trying, so don't give up This is the fork in the road where it can go one way or the other. Best of wishes to you and your family.
P.S. To those that say a child is the product of the home...Only in part. When they say it takes a village to raise a child, it means it is the effect of the environment as a whole, school, demographics, society as a whole. A childhood is all encompassing from everything, inside influences as well as outside.
I don't claim to be an expert by a long shot. But I have definitely been in the OP's shoes.

a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

As a parent myself, I can understand your concern, and it sounds like you have a real reason for that. best advice, honestly, is to get him out of the school system. Home school. The crowd he's with and the girl seem to be factors, so remove those. At eleven, he seems a bit young for that sort of relationship anyway. My younger set (older ones both adults) are 13, 12, and 10, and they have no interest in a boyfriend or girlfriend. And, yes, we home school. It might seem extreme, but the behavior you discuss seems to be that as well.

It isn't as complicated as you might think, either. There is a ton of material available for curriculum online, to meet whatever needs and wants you have for that, and in a variety of price ranges. The time needed isn't all day, inmost cases, because you don't have a classroom full to teach; just one or two, depending on if you pull both your boys.

Kids can come across all sorts of influences in the schools, and we can't control those. The only thing you can do is remove him from that influence. Some sort of counseling might be in order as well, especially of the behavior toward the younger brother is violent at all. At the least, sit everyone down to discuss what's going on, and see if he will talk to you about it.

a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

Hi MagesticEsoteric!

I had a 4-year old son when my twin daughters were born. I also did in-home babysitting, so I've 'raised' a few kids.

The thing that concerns me the most is the attitude of your oldest son towards your youngest.
Is there the possibility that someone at school is harassing/bullying your son?
It's very common, when one is being 'picked on'...to come home and take the frustration out on someone else (someone more vulnerable).

Your parenting techniques have to change as a child gets older.
You don't parent an 11-year-old the same as a 6-year old. (and you can't parent a 16-year-old like an 11-year-old).

I don't believe that home-schooling is necessarily the answer.
Taking away the entire 'social' atmosphere (and structure) at his age, might rebound against you.

If he is in with the 'popular' kids, the 'power' might be going to his head a little.
Many popular cliques pick on the less popular kids. Is he 'going along with the herd'? (and bringing that attitude home?)

People in general get angry with control. If you are controlling his internet use, tv, etc....and his friends have more freedom...he could be rebelling for more rights.

He also could be behaving in the manner that seems to garner him the most favour with his group of friends. Maybe the girl-friend/cheerleader is encouraging his 'alpha male' behaviour?

I'm guessing that he enjoys the attention he's receiving (you used the word 'performing')...if not from his family, then most likely from his buddies. Sounds like he's starting to push boundaries and see what he can get away with.

Don't schedule all his time for him. Make sure the activities, sports, etc. are things that he actually WANTS to be involved in. Otherwise, control issues again...and he might want more time to do what HE wants to do.

Kids are still people...and people have reactions, emotions, issues, etc.
Unless you know the 'root' of this behaviour, you won't really know how to effectively deal with "it"...because you don't know what "it" is.

Good luck to you. Puberty and adolescence are hard to live through...but even harder to parent through.
jacygirl

originally posted by: FyreByrd
Seach advice of a child development specialist.

Yes ... that. An internet chat room isn't the best place to get advice on such a serious situation ...

a reply to: AccessDenied

That was very awesome. The way you described your experience with your son is amazing and thank you. You're on my list of admirable Mothers. You're a true humanitarian. I know...I know what humanitarian means, but in your case with 9 children I quite think IMO, that you deserve the title of humanitarian. There aren't many women nowadays and I'm one of them, that could have many children such as yourself. It's just incredible...and I find it amazing. I'm sure the world will thank you one day for all of your hard work.

It's not often that we are presented with such dedication and those that seek advice of this type on ATS. Thank you...I certainly learned at least one thing from your post. Furthermore, I could never ever be so brave. Congrats to you and your family...you're an incredible mother to say the least.

originally posted by: ThePublicEnemyNo1
a reply to: AccessDenied

That was very awesome. The way you described your experience with your son is amazing and thank you. You're on my list of admirable Mothers. You're a true humanitarian. I know...I know what humanitarian means, but in your case with 9 children I quite think IMO, that you deserve the title of humanitarian. There aren't many women nowadays and I'm one of them, that could have many children such as yourself. It's just incredible...and I find it amazing. I'm sure the world will thank you one day for all of your hard work.

It's not often that we are presented with such dedication and those that seek advice of this type on ATS. Thank you...I certainly learned at least one thing from your post. Furthermore, I could never ever be so brave. Congrats to you and your family...you're an incredible mother to say the least.

I thank you for the compliment, but you give me far too much credit. Wisdom only comes from learning from one's mistakes and suffice to say I had to make a lot of mistakes to learn. I still make mistakes, and I'm still learning. My only thing was, if I can save another family from the heartache that ours went through I would do so in a heartbeat.

OP, I have to agree with Jacygirl...perhaps your son is feeling frustration due to peer pressure. Even though I am a homeschooling parent, I would strongly advise against it as a solution. My children were educated at home from the beginning and to change that aspect of your childs life may send him into a depression. It's one thing to help him cope with a problem (if school and peer pressure) are his issues, but yet another to help him avoid it. He would learn no coping skills for later in life if you isolate him. I stand by my first post in that he needs to talk to someone other than you or your husband to first identify the problem, then work from there towards a solution that will make everyone happy.
Best of Luck to you.

a reply to: ladyteeny

I agree with your post 100%. Sometimes there is absolutely nothing you can do and it is not always the fault of the parent(s). My brother took a turn like your son. We were raised the exact same way. He can't be reached and has chosen alcohol and drugs over family (even his own) for almost as long as I can remember. I know many other families who have the "one off" child that couldn't be reached regardless of what was done.

People tend to forget at times that we are all different people with different personalities. Home life can affect a hell of a lot, but sometimes it is just a losing battle. I watched my mom try for years and fail each and every one of those years.

I know that in this day and age there are many that do not agree with your view of letting him go. I believe most people have never experienced what you have and live with the fantasy that they would never give up. It's easy to have that belief when it has never been tested as much as others have experienced. The decision to give up is never an easy one. Hence the parents that have helped their children to the grave at a much faster pace because they couldn't let them hit rock bottom. It's not usually a natural decision and it is usually made when your heart has been torn from you for the very last time.

I am sorry it is a decision that you had to make. In a perfect world none of us would ever know the pain one goes through when their child has chosen a way of life and behaviors that force the hands of those who loved and nurtured them to let them go utterly and completely.

Have you thought about about contacting the parents of his friends and finding out if their kids are similarly acting out?
Maybe you could all meet and discuss a course of action. I wouldn't tell him.
I bet if his "girlfriend's" parents found out she was "dating" a youngster who was acting out, they would not be happy.
A concerted effort by all the parents may nip this behavior in the bud.
Children that age, especially boys of that age, should be heavily involved in sports and other constructive activities, like fishing and hiking.
Sign him up for sports such as soccer, basketball, and baseball. If he refuses to play? Take him to the games and practices that he would otherwise be attending. You would be attending them anyway and make him sit in the stands and watch.
As far as violence to his brother? IT SHOULD NEVER be tolerated. He should be made aware that he will receive punishment in the loss of all privileges. Internet, games, tv, and whatever else he enjoys. Chores are a given. Make him help Dad mow the lawn, wash the car, take out the trash, and other fun stuff like that. Inform him that his little brother will not have to do any chores for two weeks or longer if he strikes him. He alone must do the chores.
Don't forget that you must also reward him for good behavior. The movies and whatever he enjoys.
In a nutshell? Make him keenly aware there are consequences for his actions, good or bad.

I read most of the replys on page one so I don't know if something like this has been mentioned.

It sounds lime you have all the tools in place to curb his behavior. You just need to use them.
It's not easy doing what we NEED to do as parents, we just have to remember that we are PARENTS first and FRIENDS second.
Here is my advice (I have three teen boys of my own):
Warn him ONCE then take action.
He really enjoys sports? Warn him that you will pull him off of "x" team if he does not do as asked.
If he doesn't then you will have to show him that you meant what you said.
It may seem like the end of the world to him but you will all be better off once he remembers that YOU ars the parent.
Quad

I had to log out last night before I really wanted to and honestly didn't expect all of these replies when I logged back in this morning.

I've skimmed through some...some are pretty harsh and I certainly opened myself up to that by posting my plea. I will read through them all more carefully and respond in kind once I get my youngest off to afternoon kindergarten.


Thank you everyone...for the good, the bad and the harsh. Thanks for taking the time to at least try and help.

my advice is that you need to move. far away, and get your kid away from those influences, or send your child to boot camp.

originally posted by: MagesticEsoteric
a reply to: rickymouse

That's just it...I don't freely let him hang out with his friends. He does at school and while he is at baseball practice/games.

He just seems too young for that much freedom...at least to me. I don't frickin' know...thus this post.

He definitely doesn't have an issue with confidence...at all. If anything, he's a bit too "cocky".

I'm completely out of my realm of understanding. Again, my reason for posting this thread.

urggghh...

You don't let him freely hang out with his friends? Ever?

No wonder you're having problems. Unstructured time to just hang is important to kids. You can still let him have that time without losing control of it. You just make sure you control how much of it he has and maintain supervision of it, but letting him have an hour or three in a week to just play video games or watch movies or whatever else he might want to do with his friends is important and it might be part of why you're having issues now.

My son is only three, but his dad and I are already letting him make his own choices. Sure we control all the options he chooses from, but he gets to control some things and take ownership.

The other thing - the more things he has that are really "his" - freedoms I mean, the easier it will be for you to modify his behavior through removing those things. Right now, your big leverage is to take away his friends by removing him from school and after school activities which he should be engaged in. If you gave him more personal freedoms (even closely supervised ones), those could be taken away first.

Also, it's a good idea to get to know the parents of all your kids' friends. That way, you know if you can trust them enough to supervise your kid in your stead should your kid ever get invited over. And in a situation like this one, it would give you some potential allies.

And you should make it crystal clear that the younger brother is off limits. It's one things for siblings to squabble, but if you're really concerned for your younger child's safety, then it may be time to look for professional help.

a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

I haven't had chance to read through all the replies yet but....

Boys of that age go through hormonal changes as well as girls. It can be a very confusing age that brings physical and emotional change as well as striving to "fit in" etc. I think that when children of that age are flooded with emotions they aren't necessarily mature enough to deal with it can result in those they love the most, ie their family, getting the backlash.

I went through a similar phase at that age and drove my parents and sister up the wall! What worked for me was a little idea my dad had. After all attempts to get through to me failed he gave me some paper and a pen. He explained to me it was for me to write down all the things that were so bad at home that made me so unhappy and angry . He told me that I would not be punished for anything I wrote on the paper and it was a chance to tell them what was making me so unhappy and angry in my own words without fear of repercussions. He told me to take my time and return it to him whenever I was ready.

I returned it to him three days later.....blank. Because after thinking about it I realised that my unhappiness and anger wasn't actually caused by my family at all although I had been blaming them. I didn't actually understand why I was feeling the way I did. This was a turning point for me because instead of taking it out on my parents I turned to them for support instead.

I have five children and I am not a mother who is afraid to discipline my children. But some of the replies I did read seem to be a little harsh and over reactive. You know your child better than anyone and only you can decide and know what kind of approach he will respond to best. But I have seen many a parent alienate their child because they try to deal only with the bad behaviour rather than the cause.

I would say that a lot of what you describe sounds like a fairly normal phase for his age to be honest. Although the fact there is violence is something that most definitely needs addressing!
The only thing that sort of stood out to me is that you don't allow him to hang out with friends unsupervised outside of school. Obviously I don't know anything about the area you live and how safe it is for him to be able to do this. But I allow my 10 year old boy to hang out with friends where we live and I can imagine he would feel pretty isolated if we took this freedom away!

It sounds like you are a great mother...I have experience of problems with one of my own children. Although to be fair those problems were a result of a particular set of circumstances so it wouldn't be relevant to share them here. But I do know how very difficult and soul destroying it is when this sort of behaviour takes over family life. And I know it can be difficult to even admit or want to admit that one of our children has behavioural problems.
But the fact you are not burying your head in the sand and facing this full on with love in your heart says to me at least you are at a good starting point.

I really do wish you all the best in this situation.

a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

As if you need more advice, lolz, well I just feel like I must offer you some hugs, support and empathy as a fellow mom! :-)

I read your 1st post and it was kind of like a mirror image of some things I have been going through with a 12-year-old "son" as of late.

Despite his hormonal situation, apparently the "pollen vortex" has invaded our area after an especially cold winter. He has been very active in every sport you can imagine, when the weather has allowed.

Count your blessings, please!

If you have a strong, healthy child, be grateful and thankful.

The past 3 weeks have been well, hellish, for us, as my young man has been through anaphylactic shock in 3+ occasions in the same amount of time. He has been to the ER, numerous doctors, and is currently on over 10 medications and treatments. From a mom who doesn't like to rely on Western medicines, but when you see your child losing consciousness, you'll do anything. My apologies if this sounds like a rant, as nothing is for certain with his condition right now, and I know there are perhaps worse diseases/illnesses that others face and that he might encounter.

So, to wrap things up, I would recommend:

A). A total physical examination that involves blood work, and is more detailed than a sports clearance if you haven't already to out rule any possible hidden conditions
B). Consultation with a Counselor for both you and your son, and greater family if needed
C). Once the situation stabilizes through strategies with a licensed counselor, or professional, slowly allow more freedoms for your boy/little man -- And, I struggle with this too... Big Time...but try to not to be momma bird over protector

AND to all those who say that your child is not your possession, I have news for you!!! Legally, until they are 18, you are Totally Responsible for their Actions! Stop the Disinformation! so, don't misguide the caring OP on this matter.

originally posted by: abe froman
11 years old? turn him over your knee.

my
thoughts
exactly !!

I did this to my 3yr old daughter that put her hand on her hip and said " I don't have too" and stuck her tongue out at me and sashayed back in her bedroom after I told her to her to clean her room.. and she KNEW what I meant and she knew how to pick up her room too

I decompressed for about hmmm....30 mins.. then ask her to come to me politely and as she got close .. yep.. i grabbed her by her wrist, her pants came down and I bare butt spanked her 3 times in succession, hard enough to make an impression but, never a red mark, pulled her pants back up and said.. "don't you ever tell me you don't have to clean your room ever again young lady, when dad tells your or asks you to do something.. and you don't .. this is what you'll get...go clean your room"

she went into her bedroom and I went to mine .. she cleaned her room and I wept for an hour in my pillow..

never had a problem since and never had to spank her again .. EVER! ...she's in her 20s now..

a reply to: MagesticEsoteric

Move him to a different school. Immediately. Take away every single privilege until he straightens up. Includes video games, etc. He wants something to do, TV (with V-chip enabled) or books.

That's my advice anyhow.

Spanking at that age isn't a bad idea, but if the kid is aware of the whole DCF thing, this could go really badly. Doesn't even take any evidence, just his say so he was abused (because the State loves to give power to children), and then they are in your life for good, even if you did nothing wrong.

If really severe, get him Baker-acted into a Juvenile Psych Ward for a bit...see if he enjoys that.