BLM Seizes New Mexico Ranch Land for a Jumping Mouse

originally posted by: occrest
Federally owned land = public land=my land=your land. Period!!!, Feds are our servants, not masters. We, the public, raise beef on our public lands to feed us, the public.

What is the problem?

So you land management plan is calling dibs? BLM manages land and makes decisions on our behalf. If you do not like how they are managing the land vote in an administration and congress that will appoint people that will.

originally posted by: occrest
Federally owned land = public land=my land=your land. Period!!!, Feds are our servants, not masters. We, the public, raise beef on our public lands to feed us, the public.

What is the problem?

The problem is this is the same as it was with Bundy. A rancher not paying his fees and going on and grazing his cattle anyways. Is this guy cutting the public in on the profits? Do you think oil companies should have to pay for the oil they get from public lands? It is the same thing here this guy is running a business so he really isn't representing the public now is he?

originally posted by: blargo

originally posted by: occrest
Federally owned land = public land=my land=your land. Period!!!, Feds are our servants, not masters. We, the public, raise beef on our public lands to feed us, the public.

What is the problem?

So you land management plan is calling dibs? BLM manages land and makes decisions on our behalf. If you do not like how they are managing the land vote in an administration and congress that will appoint people that will.

My question was rhetorical.

BLM does not manage the land on our behalf. If they truly did, they wouldn't take issue with the cattle being raised there, as they have been raised there for the better part of 2 centuries without any problems.

No, the BLM serves on the behalf of the United Nations and Agenda 21, as does all the other alphabet agencies across the globe. What we are seeing here is just another contraction in the birthing of the 'new world order,' and one more link in the chain that holds the peoples in bondage of the master of this world.

As for any vote that elects a truly representative government body? This is impossible, for it is folly to even think that less than 600 men and women could truly represent the interests of 300+ million. Our government was bought in 1913, and we people have been paying for it since.

Disclaimer: The above is only my humble opinion. Whether you accept it or not, it matters not.

Do you think oil companies should have to pay for the oil they get from public lands?

a reply to: buster2010

Absolutely!

It is the same thing here this guy is running a business so he really isn't representing the public now is he?

It is not the same. The rancher is not destroying anything in order to raise cattle. His cattle replenish the earth with scat in order to fertilize the grass that feeds the next generation.

The ranchers are not elected to represent the public. They raise the beef that feed us. Their methods of production is not usually destructive to the citizenry or the environment.

Can you say the same about the oil industry?

originally posted by: occrest
The rancher is not destroying anything in order to raise cattle.

Yes, the creeks, streams, mice and trout are being destroyed.

Hmmm.

Selective enforcement/conflicts.

Part of the Environmental/Industrial/Agenda21 complex ?

Washington • The government has failed to inspect thousands of oil and gas wells it considers potentially high risks for water contamination and other environmental damage, congressional investigators say.

The report, obtained by The Associated Press before its public release, highlights substantial gaps in oversight by the agency that manages oil and gas development on federal and Indian lands.

Fed govt failed to inspect higher risk oil wells

Lots of conflicts of interest here.

Big Bureaucracies always *Fail*

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: occrest
The rancher is not destroying anything in order to raise cattle.

Yes, the creeks, streams, mice and trout are being destroyed.

And there will new creeks, streams, mice and trout.

This is nothing more than government a) depriving independent ranchers and their families/employees of a livelihood, and b) depriving a people of natural grass fed beef. Soon all that will be publicly available is meats raised on gmo alfalfa corn and soy, along with animal byproducts, sold to us at ever increasing prices, further removing currencies from the ever-shrinking wallets John Q. Public and into the over flowing coffers of corporate ranchers who have sold their soul and our health to the devil for the almighty dollar.


again, this is just my opinion

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: occrest
The rancher is not destroying anything in order to raise cattle.

Yes, the creeks, streams, mice and trout are being destroyed.

With all due respect, give me a break. The story about the rodent is just a cover. Meanwhile, we've experienced oil spills in the gulf of mexico, Alaska, the great lakes, and countless others but oil companies are still allowed to drill & destroy the environment much more so than a rancher's cows grazing on the same land they've been sharing with other animals long before the BLM existed.

The same could be argued about carbon taxes being imposed on businesses with a large 'carbon footprint'. I really don't think this has anything to do with trying to save an endangered species.

The BLM tried to get away with this with the Bundy ranch, and if he was in the wrong then why didn't they take him in? Instead they moved elsewhere.

originally posted by: buster2010
Another "I am above the law" rancher having his imaginary land stolen by the mean old BLM. Maybe Bundy and him can start a club they can call it the old west whiners club. All you have to do to be a member is cry my family has been using this public land since the 1800's and now the mean old government is stealing it.

Sometimes I think you don't read your own posts.... or the OP.....

Actually I'm sure of it...

I believe there is something serious about to happen, as this is occurring everywhere. I live in Arkansas, and currently they are saying there is some sort of endangered mussel living here. They have shut down any land/WATER production in over 20 counties due to this suddenly discovered endangered mussel.

m.arkansasonline.com...

originally posted by: Kevinquisitor
With all due respect, give me a break. The story about the rodent is just a cover.

You're certainly entitled to that opinion. I live in the next county. This is from 1993:

Published: May 6, 1993

In the last four years Catron County here in southwestern New Mexico has been a thorn in the side of environmentalists and Federal agencies. The county has been filing lawsuits against the Federal Government and passing its own land-use ordinances in a struggle to gain more authority over how Federal forest and grazing lands within its boundaries are managed.

The BLM is not suddenly seizing land. This started 20 years ago with the counties "taking over" federal lands. They've basically been trying to steal the land from us for many years.

Source

Meanwhile, we've experienced oil spills in the gulf of mexico, Alaska, the great lakes, and countless others but oil companies are still allowed to drill & destroy the environment much more so than a rancher's cows grazing on the same land they've been sharing with other animals long before the BLM existed.

That has zero to do with the BLM or this story.

originally posted by: occrest

Do you think oil companies should have to pay for the oil they get from public lands?

a reply to: buster2010

Absolutely!

It is the same thing here this guy is running a business so he really isn't representing the public now is he?

It is not the same. The rancher is not destroying anything in order to raise cattle. His cattle replenish the earth with scat in order to fertilize the grass that feeds the next generation.

The ranchers are not elected to represent the public. They raise the beef that feed us. Their methods of production is not usually destructive to the citizenry or the environment.

Can you say the same about the oil industry?

He is still operating a business so he is still the same as an oil company. Also he is doing damage to the environment his cattle is wrecking the streams. Oil companies are not elected to represent the public either just like the rancher doesn't represent anyone but himself.

I won't support BLM taking land unjustly, but lets be careful to not turn everything BLM does into "being at it again" and "looking for trouble". We don't need militia showing up to fight every BLM action. I know political opportunists have ran with it, but the BLM has been doing these things since 1946. Some act like it's a new commie program designed to kill America.

Some land and species should be protected. I don't mind organizations that keep humans from destroying everything we touch. I know most farmers are good people, but some also break laws.

Also he is doing damage to the environment his cattle is wrecking the streams

a reply to: buster2010

Pardon me while i--

i'm done here as i can see you have no clue of the symbiotic relationship of animals and land.

Save the Field Mouse,,

How quickly the Government forgets its promises,,





yes save the mouse,,

originally posted by: occrest

Also he is doing damage to the environment his cattle is wrecking the streams

a reply to: buster2010

Pardon me while i--

i'm done here as i can see you have no clue of the symbiotic relationship of animals and land.

I don't know how much damage cattle have done in this specific case, but I've lived in New Mexico, and have personally been effected by asshole farmers destroying land. It's not the cows, it's the people that come with them.

Some of my favorite childhood fishing spots are toxic and full of yellow fish. It wasn't BLM and EPA poisoning the water, it was careless farmers. Burgers and manure aren't always a fair trade off. Idiots who think they are harmless can easily destroy good things.

a reply to: occrest

We, the public, raise beef on our public lands to feed us, the public.

"We" do? Where is my cut of the pay for use of MY land when these ranchers see their cattle unloaded for slaughter? Oh, I get that my hamburger has a little sliver of them in it somewhere, by modern meat practices of mixing the whole to make the patty.

However, I am also a member of "We the people...". I'm one who doesn't like the idea of that public land WE own being torn up by commercial cattle raised to feed the bank account of a private individual. He can use his own land or buy more when grazing rights to ours aren't available to use any longer.

Just my thoughts, but Ranchers with an entitlement attitude toward public holdings of land are no better than the benefit recipients who also have an entitlement attitude toward public holdings of money. The % for each segment of overall people is small, but loud and terribly unpleasant to deal with.

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: occrest

Also he is doing damage to the environment his cattle is wrecking the streams

a reply to: buster2010

Pardon me while i--

i'm done here as i can see you have no clue of the symbiotic relationship of animals and land.

I don't know how much damage cattle have done in this specific case, but I've lived in New Mexico, and have personally been effected by asshole farmers destroying land. It's not the cows, it's the people that come with them.

Some of my favorite childhood fishing spots are toxic and full of yellow fish. It wasn't BLM and EPA poisoning the water, it was careless farmers. Burgers and manure aren't always a fair trade off. Idiots who think they are harmless can easily destroy good things.

REALLY??? i quote "Some of my favorite childhood fishing spots are toxic and full of yellow fish"

WOW.,, name one spot, so we can go find it on the internet,, just one of these favourite spots of yours,,

And how do u feel about fishermen or is it just the Land part ???

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
Ranchers with an entitlement attitude toward public holdings of land are no better than the benefit recipients who also have an entitlement attitude toward public holdings of money.

Welfare Ranchers

The majority of the American public does not know that livestock grazing in the arid West has caused more damage than the chainsaw and bulldozer combined. Welfare Ranching: The Subsidized Destruction of the American West is a seven-pound book featuring 346 pages of articles and photographs by expert authors and photographers on the severe negative impacts of livestock grazing on western public lands. Selected articles and photographs are available online below.

Myth: Ranchers Are Good Stewards of the Land
Myth: Rangeland Conditions are Improving
Myth: Livestock Benefit Wildlife
Myth: Public Lands Grazing Supports the Family Rancher
Myth: Cattle Have Replaced the Bison
Myth: Rangelands Must Be Grazed to Stay Healthy
Myth: Ranching Is the Foundation of Rural Economies
Myth: It's Either Ranching or Subdivisions
Myth: Good Livestock Production and Ecosystem Preservation Can Coexist

If anyone is interested in education rather than spouting off about something they know nothing of, this is a great read.