I reall enjoy reading all of the posts on ats, but i think this board is ready to take it to the next level. We are saying all of the problems in the us and other countries, we have facts to back it up, but we do not try and find a solution to the problem. For every problem there is a solution and i feel it is important to come up with a solution. Please Please Please think hard of a solution to the corruptness and many other problems in the governments.

If you do not try and solve the problem than you are helping the problem grow. There are two types of people fighters and followers. Which would you rather be?

I know many of you will not aggree with the last statement i just made, but do not point out its flaws in this post please, I only want this post to be about solving the problem.



[Edited on 27-5-2003 by ilovepizza]

One of the main reasons I left my former discussion site was because of the lack of will among the posters to want to work to achieve or solve anything. All they really wanted was to argue and prove others wrong by trying to sound right. I played their games, but then I soon left. I got tired of just talking about these things that rule the lives of others. I started thinking that I could do more than just preach about it.

I realized that I could try and solve some issues at hand, but I never really got into major planning. For I am still trying to figure things out. I am still trying to figure the best move, or strategy. I think about what we can or cannot do all the time.

Yet I have trouble getting myself to do what can be done. I have noticed that while ATS holds me back from getting some of these things done, I still gain ground in my search to seek out the corruption.

I have met some really interesting people here that are just as if not more concerned about these issues as I am. I think that if we all listen to this man's suggestion, that we could all save a lot of lives.

Let us try this. Let us see what we can do.



Abraham

[Edited on 27-5-2003 by Abraham Virtue]

[Edited on 27-5-2003 by Abraham Virtue]

You can't totally eliminate the problem. Humans are the problem, and as long as there are humans around, there's going to be problems...

Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter
You can't totally eliminate the problem. Humans are the problem, and as long as there are humans around, there's going to be problems...

That is like saying that there is always going to be evil, and that it would be pointless to fight it because it would never go away. Personally you know something is right, and you do what you know is right. You don't make exceptions or excuses. There are no exceptions in life.




You See????

Actually, I see it this way. Everybody has their place, good or evil. And no, you cannot have good without evil just as you cannot have light without dark. I am just living my life, doing what I do, because that's my place.

Whatever I chose to do, be it for good or evil or even nothing, things will continue with or without me. I happen to believe there is always an exception.

There is no solution that does not in turn create new problems and so instead of aspiring for ideals we compromise.
Idealist solutions,whether from the extreme right or left,disenfranchise large sections of society creating problems by compromising no large section is disenfranchised but neither is anyone fully satisfied.

We are trying to stress that SOMETHING CAN BE DONE.

That is all.

Pizza has a desire to bring about that SOMETHING, as do I.







Do you????


Abraham

The only reasonable solution I can find to "problems" in society is for all people of all races and classes to just leave each other the hell alone...

Unless every entire being on the planet agree's on the same solution..then you are fighting a losing battle..
You can solve(for the most part) the problems that directly involve you, but not the entire world. I think we all have a need/want to do what you are asking, but to agree with everyones ultimate solution, would be nearly impossible, and even cause more problems..

Specifically thou..are you talking worldly..or here on the board? I think we do a fine job here of learning and moving forward between our rational and even irrational discussions..so can you elaborate a bit more?
Magestica

[Edited on 5/27/03 by magestica]

He is not saying, that he has all the solutions. He is saying that he might have some.

I think you people assume that the word SOMETHING, means EVERYTHING.

No it doesn't.

Pizza is saying that we can do SOMETHING.

He isn't saying that we can do EVERYTHING.




GET IT?????????




Abraham

"Do as you would be done by" takes some beating on the individual level.

I like pizza's idea. I'm still new around here and am reading more and learning more all the time from this site and all of you "Old Timers". So I for one am probably not the most qualified to give out answers just yet, unless (and this is really my whole point behind writting this) you can narrow down the problem you are trying to fix. I mean this site has a million different topics showing legitimate areas that need fixing. Some of which have more probability than others of even being fixed or refined at all.

Trying to fix a whole planet full of problems is the worst way you can look at it. You set yourself up for failure at that point. How about starting a bit smaller and more realistic....In fact since you started this post pizza, what kinds of ideas do you have or maybe what specific problems were you wanting to try and fix, that are realistically fixible in the first place??

Other posters here also have a valid point about one solution making another problem. I agree as I think most do that yes the universal balance of the good/evil black/white up/down duality is present. But does that mean that being indifferent to what is going on in the world is a good choice to make?? Especially since I feel upon closer examination you will see that although universal balance will have the final word our lives that we are living do not exist on this universal scale. We as humans on this little dirt ball we call earth are just a little speck in the universal function of balance. What I'm trying to say is that fixing a few problems or making them worse does and will make a difference to us in this reality in which we live, so maybe we should actually do something...Sure the balance of all things has it's way when all is said and done, but universal laws don't always effect my life as much as I wish they would, my life is much more finite than that. I hope that all made sense to everyone...Sometimes philisophical viewpoints are difficult to explain by typing them out in one complete flow.

Let's look at this realistically (Oh no! Byrd is getting logical again!!!)

We have 1237 active members, and we represent at least 10 different countries (casual count. Could be more.) I'd bet that we have active members in at least 25 different states -- so you've got around... 10-20 people in each region.

Furthermore, many here do NOT live in the US and have about as much impact on US politics as a spitball has on an aircraft carrier.

There are 6,000,000,000 people on the planet, with different varieties and flavors of government.

We represent the entire spectrum of religious thinking, from extrememly conservative Christian through other religions and on into very liberal atheism. Politically, we go from liberal feminists to right-wing extreme conservatives.

Which country are you trying to improve? What "corruption" are you trying to improve? How much do you know about your country's legal system, political system, economic system (are you a supply side economist or a free trade economist -- and why?) How much do you know about who supplies which services to you and your town? Are you trying to improve local or national government? Do you have an issue beyond "The government is gonna INVADE US and LOCK US ALL UP and TAKE AWAY OUR GUNS!"?

How do you define corruption?

Which level do you intend to start cleanups at?



When you are confronted with a problem that needs a solution, the FIRST thing you do is study the problem first-hand. Find out where you think the corruption is. Then go find out about that office -- find out what it does, talk to some former officeholders about how they got the job.

Don't rely on Internet websites; get your hands dirty and find out what's true. Find out who really holds the power and who are the movers and shakers.

Like the others, I work at the local level. I vote, I read issues, I talk to others, I even put up yard signs and do other things like that. I have no interest in running for office or for political convention representative, but I could do that if I was so inclined. I do some community service work. I attend the occasional rally or demonstration.

While people are out there shrieking about this issue or that issue, many of us old-timers are simply working on solving local issues; improving things that improve the future. And we're doing it single-handedly.

Why are you sitting there looking for buddies to stand with you? What's stopping YOU from taking action right now?

[Edited on 27-5-2003 by Byrd]

Byrd

"We have 1237 active members"

????

Have you looked at the membership list.Look in order Number of Posts.Go to the back.I think it is page 57 and see just how many have registered over 3 months ago and never made a post or only one.

It would be nice to know how many active members we have.

"Active Member" in the ticker on the forum home page is defined as a member that has made 10 or more posts.

Perhaps we should rename that statistic... but that's how it's calculated.

Byrd that was very well put. A much more vivid and clear viewpoint like I was trying to get at earlier. I too feel like pizza does in the fact that something should be done about some of the terrible things that are happening in this world, but I also have to face the fact that I hold no political influence nor any real economic strength or power to change most or any of these massive problems that are talked about on this site. In fact some of them I'm still studing to find out just how valid and/or influential they really are. Now if anyone does think they have a solution to any given problem I think we are all willing to discuss it and even help see it come to action if it's a real profound idea but I think the reality of it is that most of these problems have been constructed over a very long time and/or with a great power behind them that most of us are not in any type of control of. At the same time great changes and amazing improvments will grow if even us little guys in the world continue or start (for those who are a little behind schedual) to respect and eventually love the people and the world that we are in contact with every day. And if you really think about it, just trying to help and enlighten the small area of the world we are in touch with everyday is a full time job.

Originally posted by ilovepizza
If you do not try and solve the problem than you are helping the problem grow. There are two types of people fighters and followers. Which would you rather be?

This highly idealistic statement doesn't factor into account that the overwhelming majority of people on this planet are just trying to get by with the rather narrow view of simply supporting their family. Creating such a blanket statement ignores the complexities of the day-to-day realities people face across this planet.

The "problem" you seem to identify is corruption at the governance level of society. Well, this has always been a problem. Corruptible people are attracted by the power that political position affords. The only way to find a balance is to establish a degree of checks and balances that attempts to keep corrupt people pigeon-holed and unable to effect broad sections of society. The multi-party, multi-level system of U.S. government is an attempt at this.

What do you feel has broken down, and what do you think is a workable alternative?