Rumblings of World War on Horizon

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posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 12:35 PM
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The Ukraine is a tinderbox



The split between Russia and Western nations over Ukraine is the deepest since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Russia has said Western nations are taking actions which have inflamed the tense situation in Ukraine in the wake of the disputed election. President Vladimir Putin even accused the European Union of encouraging supporters of opposition candidate Viktor Yushchenko to take to the streets in mass demonstrations, which Russia terms "anti-democratic". Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has taken it a step further, saying that certain countries want to "move things beyond legal norms" and that they want to push the Ukraine "to be more with the West."

GlobalSecurity.org



If Russia fails in its political machinations (likely) at putting a favorable leader in the Ukrainian Presidency that will bend to its will and the Eastern districts of the Ukraine try to form an autonomous region then civil war becomes a high probability. This of course assumes that with an unfavourable outcome the Russians don't take more direct action in the capitol Kiev first.

Disticts in blue may split off with Yushchenko victory


The Ukraine since gaining its independence from the USSR has been an important buffer between Western European countries and Russia.
With an independent and western leaning government Europe (And the US) can be assured that the old Soviet Empire will not be resurrected anytime soon.

Russia depends on the Ukraine as an entry point into the EU economy with energy pipelines and import export across Ukrainian territory.

If and its yet still a big if - the districts of Dnipropetrovsk, Donetsk, Zhitomir, Zakarpattya, Kyiv, Luhansk, Nikolaev, Odessa, Poltava and Kharkiv oblasts, plus Crimea do eventually attempt secession and the rest of the Ukraine attempts to stop the secession with force then other foreign forces could easily be drawn in on either side.

Russia to the aid of the break-away oblasts with a goal of making a corridor to the Crimean oblast which would be cut off to the southwest and protecting the flank of its naval installations at Sevastopol to the south.

Poland located on the border of Ukraine to the North West could concievably come to the aid of Western Ukraine, if a NATO country were to at that time have war declared on it for participation in aiding Ukraine then the situation could involve all NATO members due to security agreements.

I know I have painted a bleak worse case scenario but looking back into history no one in 1936-38 could envisage what was to come in 1939-45 either.

I certainly hope that this crisis is peacefully resolved soon and cooler heads prevail because the stakes in this region are too high. To do otherwise is a risk to the entire worlds security in my opinion.

When did Titor say war was to happen?


[edit on 29-11-2004 by Phoenix]




posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 12:39 PM
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Depending on which post you have read, Titor said US CIVIL WAR(!) would start in 2004 OR 2005.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 05:07 PM
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Its about oil too, the eastern part has alot of oil fields.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 05:20 PM
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Place your bets. After all it's the end game.
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 06:01 PM
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This is america's attempt to thwart the Russian Final Phase End Game Move. It will cause a civil war in Ukraine. It will restart the Cold War with Russia under Czar Putin and will lead to Nuclear holocaust in 2015.


Can you feel it? The tenstion from everyone. Brawls at sporting events is a clear indictor that the human heart is yearning for WAR.

WWIII coming soon



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 06:20 PM
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Well, I can say some words about Poland as I live here now and it's easy for me to be in touch with Polish news.
Major Polish opinions are full of sympathy for Yushchenko - Polish government doesn't hide its support for him too, however tries to do everything to mediate the situation towards the peaceful compromise. The positive outcome is very important for them as Ukraine is an important eastern Polish neighbor. Are they thinking about "armed" support? - not in my knowledge...
I would like to put an opinion from some Ukrainian friends here as well. According to them there won't be civil war unless Russia is going to interfere in the new, hopefully coming elections - for them that would be "back to the slavery". They (my friends I mean) are likely to agree on split of the country, than to have "mad Putin or his dog Yanukovych" over their heads. I wish they could come here and share their thought with us on ATS but they are afraid to go public, at least for now.
I wish they can stop to worry about their future, and I hope for them, that your words Phoenix won't became the prediction of their future (and ours as well)
Sadly for me I understand your point and I cannot fully disagree with your thoughts...
let's pray for peace,
jazzgull



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by jazzgul
Well, I can say some words about Poland as I live here now and it's easy for me to be in touch with Polish news.

I wish they can stop to worry about their future, and I hope for them, that your words Phoenix won't became the prediction of their future (and ours as well)
Sadly for me I understand your point and I cannot fully disagree with your thoughts...
let's pray for peace,
jazzgull


Thanks for that well worded answer - its always appreciated to hear from someone with a closer perspective on the situation.

If you hear more from your Ukrainian friends please pass it along.

Thanks again! Jazzgull



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 07:51 PM
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WW3 aint happening for a while and John Titor was a fake. Yes im serious.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 07:55 PM
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Margaret Thatcher Weighs in on Ukrainian Crisis



LONDON (Reuters) - A "new Iron curtain" could fall across Ukraine if the West does not support the former Soviet state's democracy movement, former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher has said.

Thatcher, who ruled the country in the 1980s when the first cracks appeared in the Communist bloc, has mostly retreated from public life due to poor health and rarely comments on events.

"A new Iron Curtain threatens to fall across Ukraine," Thatcher said in a statement on Monday. "The West and its leaders must act decisively to support the brave Ukrainian democrats in their struggle. Tyranny must not prevail."

Reuters


As a stateswoman of Churchillian vision I think it is important to note her thoughts on the Ukraine and the seriousness of the situation.

Thatcher has not commented on much recent news according to the article and this makes me stand up and listen when someone such as she does notice and comment.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by PyschoSteve85
WW3 aint happening for a while and John Titor was a fake. Yes im serious.


The Titor reference was in jest and I was not serious - hence the little smiley after the sentence, however it would be appropiate to add more of your thoughts rather than a one line response - don't you think?

BTW, WWIII was called the cold war, some say the war on terror is IV so possibly the next one will be V - I can go with four though.


[edit on 29-11-2004 by Phoenix]



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 08:01 PM
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Fine I seriously doubt there will be a world war 3. Most of his pics he posted iof the time machine look so bad. If Kerry never conceded then there would have been a chance of a civil war. But Titor was most likely made up.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 08:53 PM
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Just spent an hour on telephone conversation with one of my Ukrainian mates. Considering that some of you might be interested in opinion of somebody who lives in Ukraine I would like to quote some of his comments on current situation:

- Do you think there is still a chance for peaceful ending?
-" I hope so, if we didn't have any hope left we would not protest, we would sit behind closed doors, and drink to death from despair". (laugh)
-What do you think about western media coverage?
"We are glad that world is watching us, it gives us strength and evidence that our rights to be free are not forgotten. But they don't understand our situation - many of them (reporters) are seeking sensation here, well is that sensation when man wants to stand for his truth?"
- do you want any help from the west?
"it is not easy here, we hope we can manage ourselves, as I said many foreigners don't understand complexity of our lives, I don't think they could help much without causing more political problems - I feel we as country will grow stronger if we can solve this problem ourselves."

Piotr (that's his name), knows about my posting here, his english is not so good, and he hasn't good internet access either. He apologizes he cannot say those words himself, and he sends greetings to everybody who supports Ukrainian freedom.

I join him..



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 08:57 PM
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now this is a good thread...

not like the other one just like this in the c. events forum...

anyway, i think if a WW3 happins, america is screwed...

my bases is, america trains to fight on a two front war...

right now we are in afghanistan (one) and iraq (two)...

any more "fronts" and i hear a draft for real this time...

this IS serious...







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