Russia moves to prohibit the U.S. from using the ISS in 2020

My question is how can Russia twll the US we can't use the ISS after 2020? Is it mot the international Space Station?
I understand tjeir position on selling us engines, but it will be interesting what the US response will be.

Russia's ongoing feud with the United States has hit new heights — literally. In retaliation for the sanctions the U.S. imposed on Russia during the Ukraine crisis, the country said it won't allow the U.S. use the International Space Station after 2020.

theweek.com...

a reply to: nighthawk1954

Because we're going to be so broke by then, a space program will be out of the question. As Russia said, we'll have to resort to a trampoline to get there. Currently we were hitching rides with the Ruskis since they decommissioned the space shuttle..

a reply to: nighthawk1954

Applying sanctions against Russia was always going to have a large dose of blow back .... and here it comes.

It is one thing to sanction small nations that can't hurt you, but when you sanction someone with teeth they tend to bite back. The US is in a bad economic zone and Russia knows this. It is back to the old ways it seems, tit for tat and who knows who can hurt who more.

The US may have bitten off more than they can chew.

If they both go down hurt, the winner will be China!

P

Sounds like this new cold war is heading into space.

Well, maybe now NASA can end their pity-party, get back to space and stop publishing research on our collapsing civilization. I bet we are way behind in the space arms race started by President Regan.

The ISS is a commercial venture. I'm not so sure that this childish back and forth between governments can actually break commercial contracts. I'm thinking the corporations will overrule the governments on this one ...

Seems Russia's holding all the cards. They provide the EU with energy and they let US ride along to the ISS.

Sounds like a lot of talk about who's going to do what to who just yet.

We'll see.

originally posted by: intrptr
Seems Russia's holding all the cards. They provide the EU with energy and they let US ride along to the ISS.

Sounds like a lot of talk about who's going to do what to who just yet.

We'll see.

Most of the EU is moving away from Russian oil and gas for ongoing and long term fears of Russia using the energy card. This is why Russia had just signed massive deals with both India and China.

As to the ISS, Russia does actually hold all the cards here. As mentionned above, NASA shelved the space shuttle meaning that in order to get to the ISS, astronauts have to use facilities in Kazakhstan (i think the other possible location is also in former Soviet territory). Quite simply, Russia can refuse to sanction the use of Russian airspace so even getting to the launch pad would be nigh on impossible.

This is just short term though. Playing this through helps neither the USA nor Russia, despite tensions over Ukraine.

Most of the ISS is owned by Russia. They are entitled to over half of the crew time in the ISS for example. They have the rockets to get people up there and back down. In other words, they have a very big saying in who participates in the ISS programme and who can't. in 2012 it was pledged to continue the programme until 2020 with the current partners. So in 2020 it will again be decided whether to continue or not, and if Russia cancels out and starts a new programme with partners from the EU and Asia, then the US will have to watch and weep.

like another poster pointed out, ISS is a joint venture.
Russia will NOT block the US from the ISS, but they can deny us transportation.

But that in itself is irrelevant, US based privatized space industry is what will get us there, that I can assure you, is fact.

Contrary to another poster, Russia does not "hold" all the cards, I almost spilled my coffee lmfao seeing that.

Europe is currently looking for plans on weening itself off oil from russia and seeing how Europeans embrace innovative change, I believe they can pull this off.

Russia is in no position to demand anything.

a reply to: RationalDespair

Absolutely wrong, in fact, that is a wonderful dream, so...keep dreaming.

The ISS is a JOINT effort, your assuming that Russia is the only nation to fly to an from? your correct, for a time.
A very short time I might add.

The US ability to get to space will be long secured before 2020.
Your under some delusion that the US is unable to get to space. The technology is there, this current administration curb financial support for it. All the US has to do is flip the switch.

My appologies , unrelated threads, im out of it today

a reply to: Arnie123

As private space venture is still some years off (as a regular venture), perhaps you could explain why Russia doesn't hold all the cards at the moment?

There may be test flights for private venture with varying degrees of success but they are not yet ready for serious deployment. Long term, Russia would be a serious loser for pushing this but short term they really do have all the cards.

What ever political inroads Russia may have made since the collapse of the Soviets has all been thrown away with I'll conceived invasion.The damage to European,American relations will take years to mend,if ever.I have no idea why some feel this puts Russia in a good position.

originally posted by: TDawg61
What ever political inroads Russia may have made since the collapse of the Soviets has all been thrown away with I'll conceived invasion.The damage to European,American relations will take years to mend,if ever.I have no idea why some feel this puts Russia in a good position.

Not saying it puts Russia in a good position, i am saying that short term Russia can and probably will push through with this, just to prove that it can hurt US operations as much as US sanctions hurt Russia. It can't of course as simply denying them the use of launch facilities only affects ISS operations. But regarding the ISS, then yes, Russia is a perfect position short term to do exactly what it wants.

You are right long term though. What Russia hopes to gain out of this is beyond me, apart from a bit of international face saving (and i am not even entirely sure that works either!).

a reply to: Arnie123

It's not a dream, it's reality. From your avatar I can see "Land of Giants BIG BAD USA", and that alone tells me how biased you are against anything that is not pro-USA. That's alright though, I'm also proud of my own country, but I'm not blinded by it.

Right now, it's a simple fact that the USA relies on Russian technology and infrastructure to get into space, or more specifically, the ISS. So Russia does hold all the cards, and honestly I don't see any change in that any time soon. The USA is practically bankrupt and has no means to start a new space programme; neither the funds, nor the technological means to get it done so quickly. 2020 is only 6 years away and in development terms that is not very long.

That aside, I should make clear that I'm not a proponent of any of these actions, neither from the US nor Russia. Both are playing dangerous games and I live right in the middle of it.

a reply to: Flavian

Most of the EU is moving away from Russian oil and gas for ongoing and long term fears of Russia using the energy card.

Which it hasn't yet. The EU needs that and the Russians are happy to wax rich off the proceeds. Nobody is going to stop that. The US may cry about "sanctioning" Russia in this regard, but really? Thats like asking Americans to voluntarily drive less to punish the Middle East.

The EU knows what side its bread is buttered on.

And the US state dept. and IMF are pissed.

A comedy of errors and shortsightedness.

a reply to: intrptr


Not yet no. The reality is still probably around 20 years away. However, the decisions have already been made to move away from Russian energy. New nuclear facilities, more coal power stations (in the case of Germany), more renewables, etc, etc.

And Russia will care because the vast majority of Russian wealth is owned by a tiny minority - it genuinely makes the West look a wonderful shared wealth haven in that respect (and we all know that is far from the case!). This tiny minority make their money selling, principally, energy to western markets who pay a lot more for it than other markets. Starved of that and also access to places to spend their wealth makes for some very unhappy oligarchs who in turn put pressure on Putin and cronies.

Which may or may not help the USA get to the ISS a bit quicker! I can honestly only see this as short term though. Putin may not be everyones cup of tea but he is certainly a shrewd operator, generally speaking. This is to prove a point more than anything else.

what was it the hopis were saying:
"when the house falls out of the sky..."

a reply to: Flavian

However, the decisions have already been made to move away from Russian energy.

Do the Russians have a say in that "decision"? The pipelines that move gas to the Middle East and EU are already there.

New nuclear facilities, more coal power stations (in the case of Germany), more renewables, etc, etc.

Natural gas is an alternative to coal and nukes. Or an augmenter. Those other sources provide electrical but gas beats back the winter.

Especially cheap, plentiful kind. The alternate solutions from the west are shipping nagas overseas from the west (expensive, cumbersome) and Fracking.

We lose.

originally posted by: RationalDespair
a reply to: Arnie123

It's not a dream, it's reality. From your avatar I can see "Land of Giants BIG BAD USA", and that alone tells me how biased you are against anything that is not pro-USA. That's alright though, I'm also proud of my own country, but I'm not blinded by it.

Right now, it's a simple fact that the USA relies on Russian technology and infrastructure to get into space, or more specifically, the ISS. So Russia does hold all the cards, and honestly I don't see any change in that any time soon. The USA is practically bankrupt and has no means to start a new space programme; neither the funds, nor the technological means to get it done so quickly. 2020 is only 6 years away and in development terms that is not very long.

That aside, I should make clear that I'm not a proponent of any of these actions, neither from the US nor Russia. Both are playing dangerous games and I live right in the middle of it.

Exactly in the short term Russia can be a right pain in the arse.

USA should of had a replacement for the shuttle in the pipe line o say 30 YEARS AGO!

Why did the USA retire the shuttle without a replacement then rely on a hostile and unpredictable country to act as taxi?

USA has been extremely short sighted in its attitude toward space.

Hopefully it can catch up. But witha 17 trillion debt bomb about to go off?