Masonry Unmasked

Originally posted by billmcelligott

Originally posted by chief_counsellor

I got upset with someone telling me the church is full of pedophiles, and said where were there ever pedophiles in masonry...so I tried to find some, because I was upset with someone telling me Catholic priests are all pedophiles or something to that matter.

The we agree, we are both Human, therefore both , or to be more accurate we all have faults.

So you can understand why I as a Christian get a little ruffled when I see

Masonry Unmasked is one of the most comprehensive books ever written about the errors of Freemasonry, and the only book ever written by a Catholic who left the Lodge. John, who was a 32nd degree Mason and expert in Masonic ritual, examines in detail the secret rituals of Freemasonry and clearly and compellingly explains why the teachings of Masonry are incompatible with the Christian faith.

The first paragraph on the link on your first post.

There are a lot of great Christians in Freemasonry and the Knights of Columbus, there is no need for any animosity between the two.

I have conversed with John Salza by mail, he seems a very nice person, I do not agree with him. but he knows that. He does not agree with me. No problem.

The difference is , I do not pass judgement on him , but he passes judgement on me.

You have to work out which of us has the Christian attitude.

That first paragraph is a QUOTE from the website, not my own words. However, I know that you love your order very much. I can understand why you would come to defend it. I am the same way with my church. I have read a lot of things on how Freemasonry "endangers" the Catholic church. I have reason to believe my church is under a sort of "attack". Masons here have stated that there is no such "attack". Then where does all this information come from? Information that Freemasonry is a threat to the Catholic church. Masons say they are not a threat, the church says they are. Argh!

[edit on 1-12-2004 by chief_counsellor]

Freemasonry is a men's fraternal benefit society that was formed to render financial aid to members and their families. Mutual aid and assistance are offered to sick, disabled and needy members and their families. Social and intellectual fellowship is promoted among members and their families through educational, charitable, social welfare, war relief and public relief works.

I have have just added one word

Two soccer teams with different colours, but they both play soccer.

John Salza
I would have asked him about one of his articles, I think I remember right. I do not know him personally. I write to so many people I would have dumped any old mail by now.

CC . . .

Are you able to think for yourself, or do you simply do whatever the RCC tells you?

Originally posted by billmcelligott

Freemasonry is a men's fraternal benefit society that was formed to render financial aid to members and their families. Mutual aid and assistance are offered to sick, disabled and needy members and their families. Social and intellectual fellowship is promoted among members and their families through educational, charitable, social welfare, war relief and public relief works.

I have have just added one word

Bill, good one, you really got me with this. Really hit home. I should have seen it coming.

However church hierarchy does not see it this way. Now, some will say, who do they think they are?

Masons today, especially in the US do not threaten the church like Eurpean Freemasons in the past. I'll be recieving an article from a priest at the seminary on a paper he wrote on Freemasonry. I don't know exactly what it will say, but it will add to my education on the matter.

I do not deny that Freemasons do a lot of good works, and donate hunreds of millions to charity each year, and the K of C do good works, and donate millions to charity. However, Freemasons are of all denominations of religion, K of C are comprised of Catholics.

The Knights of Columbus was created in order to have a fraternal benifit society that would offer the benifits that certain secret societies had, but were forbidden by the church.

In the late 1800's Secret Societies/Fraternal Orders were very popular, and were expanding all across the globe. Many of these societies were forbidden membership by the Catholic church, and Fr. Micheal J. McGivney saw the need for a Fraternal Order that Catholics could belong to, and order that was not forbidden by the church. He founded the Knights of Columbus to fill this need for a society that Catholics could belong to and still be in good standing with the Church.

Knights of Columbus is not Catholic Masonry, as some may say. The Knights of Columbus spawned in age where Fraternal Orders were flourishing, many that Catholics were not allowed to join. Fr. McGivney saw a need, and filled it.

On a religous basis, is where there is seperation between K of C and Freemasonry. You will mention to me "tolerance", and that Freemasonry is not a religion.

Even my Uncle who is a Mason, did tell me though, that the higher you go up in degrees, the more religious masonry seems.

Anyhow, I'm rambling. I'll just wait for your response to any of this.

Originally posted by nosam
CC . . .

Are you able to think for yourself, or do you simply do whatever the RCC tells you?

I love my faith, and I CHOOSE to follow it. On sexuality, cloning, abortion, homosexuality, euthanasia, I agree with what the church teaches. Of course I am able to think for myself, and I know that the Holy Spirit guides the Church, and has inpired Her to teach and instruct the faithful. While outsiders to the church see it as nothing more than organized religion. I know my religion to be founded by the Son of God, my Lord and Saviour Jessu Christ. I know that the Holy Spirit guides His church, even though there are some in the church that are scandalous, I'll admit that, but in general, the doctrines of the church are pure. For those that have caused scandal, they are going against all that the church teaches.

The basis of the church is "Love God with all your heart, your soul, and whole strength, and your nieghbour as yourself". Is built also on the 10 commandments and the beatitudes. There is a wealth of teaching that the church has, I could spend a lifetime trying to learn all that is available.

This is another thing, in Freemasonry, you can be of any religion. A Catholic that joins masonry, would have to accept all masons religions, while a Catholic would pray to Christ, a Buddhist, Buddha etc.. A Catholic could never equate Jesus Christ, son of the living God, on the same altar as Buddha, or Mohammed. etc..

Chief

To be true to my Masonic way of life I honor every man and his religion.

I am happy you have your Faith, as I am happy my fellow Masons have theirs.

I am happy with mine. This is the Masonic way. Any Mason that knocks any Religion , needs to sit and take stock. I accept here it is done sometimes to ram home a point, I think it should be taken that way.

The normal way in Freemasonry for many hundreds of years has been to ignore the outside world , just let it rant on and it will go away. Lifes not like that any more. In recent years we have changed that pattern, which is why it is now more acceptable to speak out in the defence of Freemasns, but let us not give up those honorable principles upon which the Fraternity is founded. it is very easy to get carried away in the thrust of argument, particularly on these message boards. You dont have to look the other guy in the eye when you call him a liar ?

I accept what you say about KofC, but Freemasonry's original remit was to stand like a bridge accross politics and religion. To unite , to heal.

Andersons landmarks ( The original Constitution)

19. A belief in the existence of God.
20. Subsidiary to this belief in God, is the belief in a resurrection to a future life.
21. A "Book of the Law" shall constitute an indispensable part of the furniture of every Lodge.

Then further expanded by Mackey:

LANDMARK NINETEENTH A belief in the existence of God as the GRAND ARCHITECT of the universe, is one of the most important Landmarks of the Order. It has been always deemed essential that a denial of the existence of a Supreme and Superintending Power, is an absolute disqualification for initiation. The annals of the Order never yet have furnished or could furnish an instance in which an avowed atheist was ever made a Mason. The very Initiatory ceremonies of the first degree forbid and prevent the possibility of so monstrous an occurrence.

LANDMARK TWENTIETH Subsidiary to this belief in God, as a Landmark of the Order, is the belief in a resurrection to a future life. This Landmark is not so positively impressed on the candidate by exact words as the preceding; but the doctrine is taught by very plain implication, and runs through the whole symbolism of the Order. To believe in Masonry, and not to believe in a resurrection, would be an absurd anomaly, which could only be excused by the reflection, that he who thus confounded his belief and his skepticism, was so ignorant of the meaning of both theories as to have no rational foundation for his knowledge of either.

LANDMARK TWENTY-FIRST It is a Landmark, that a "Book of the Law" shall constitute an indispensable part of the furniture of every Lodge. I say advisedly, a Book of the Law, because it is not absolutely required that everywhere the Old and New Testaments shall be used. The "Book of the Law" is that volume which, by the religion of the country, is believed to contain the revealed will of the Grand Architect of the universe. Hence, in all Lodges in Christian countries, the Book of the Law is composed of the Old and New Testaments; in a country where Judaism was the prevailing faith, the Old Testament alone would be sufficient; and in Mohammedan countries, and among Mohammedan Masons the Koran might be substituted. Masonry does not attempt to interfere with the peculiar religious faith of its disciples, except so far as relates to the belief in the existence of God, and what necessarily results from that belief. The |"|Book of the Law|"| is to the speculative Mason his spiritual Trestle-board; without this he cannot labor; whatever he believes to be the revealed will of the Grand Architect constitutes for him this spiritual Trestle|-|board, and must ever be before him in his hours of speculative labor, to be the rule and guide of his conduct The Landmark, therefore, requires that a |"|Book of the Law,|"| a religious code of some kind, purporting to be an exemplar of the revealed will of God, shall form in essential part of the furniture of every Lodge.

Grand Lodge of British Columbia and Yukon A.F. & A.M.

The Religion of Freemasonry is the Honor to uphold each mans faith and his belief in his God.

No less should be accorded to you Chief.

Originally posted by chief_counsellor
Even my Uncle who is a Mason, did tell me though, that the higher you go up in degrees, the more religious masonry seems.

CC, I've been enjoying the polite debate between you and billin the last few posts
I hope you didn't take my concerns reagarding the RCC personally.

I wonder if your uncle meant that the higher you go in Masonry, the more spiritual masonry seems. From what I know of Masonry, those that practice their Craft would become more spiritual.

I know I am ahead on points but to to qualify the force of my argument.

The prime qualification for admission into Freemasonry has always been a belief in God. How that belief is expressed is entirely up to the individual. Four Grand Masters of English Freemasonry have been Roman Catholics. There are many Roman Catholic Freemasons.

www.freemasonry.net...

Quote: "that there are Masons that are in fact anti-Catholic, with a hatred for the Catholic church."

Maybe that is because your "Church" has a History of TWISTING the Words & Life Story of Jesus into a Backwards Pretzel to suite its own POLITICAL needs!!! Is Christianity & Religion about Spirituality & Union with the Divine or is it about "World Domination"?

Well thats a new one on me Christainity part of the NWO.

OK Bill here is an example of what I am talking about:

The RCC knew full well what the Nazi's were up to in WWII Germany! You would think that the Pope of Said Time Period would open up his Mouth in Moral\Ethical Opposition (The Current Pope John Paul did oppose the Recent Invasion of Iraq - but G. W. Bush just kind of blew him off while he was getting down to business) - but he didn't! He just Winked at it!!! The Current Pope John Paul issued an Apology some time ago - but this was still DECADES AFTER the Holocaust Actually Occurred!!!

Don't People get it that the ROMAN EMPIRE Suppressed Jesus & his People? Then a couple of Hundred Years Later they did a "180 Degree Turnaround" & Adopted "Christianity" as the State Religion!!! The Roman Vatican Proclaimed itself as the center of "Jesus Christ's Church" as a matter of fact!!! In actuality they just modified the existing Pagan Practices & called it "Catholicism"!!! They Created a Parody Religion!!!

I am Not Jewish BTW. My point is that POWER CORRUPTS! Power Politics is Constantly Hijacking All Religions! This even happened back in Jesus' day - just look at his interaction with the Sadducees & the Sanhedrin!!! Look at what has been going on in Iran. The Repressive Regime/Government there is actually Comprised of the Islamic Religious Authorities ("Mullahs"). If you open up your Mouth & say something that the Regime in that country doesn't like they will throw you in a Hole Forever. They are simply using the Islamic Religion as a TOOL for Controlling Dissent. Just like other Governments use the Judaic & Christian Religion to do the same in their "Free & Democratic" Countries!

So I guess the Question becomes - does "Christian" = "Moral"? I believe in many Americans Minds it does - but I have seen no evidence of this!!! As a matter of fact I have seen & heard some self confessed "Christians" do & say some pretty awful things! You don't necessarily have to practice a Religious Faith to be a Moral Person!

the skull and bones society has the '322' signature which is a bible quote i think?.



[edit on 3-12-2004 by MysticOfRadiance]

[edit on 3-12-2004 by MysticOfRadiance]

SS ( sorry at the age of 54 I still have a childish humor)

The RCC knew full well what the Nazi's were up to in WWII Germany!

I presume you refer to John Cornwells book, �Hitlers Pope�, you ,may not, but for those who want to know more here is a link with a good informative text.
www.reformation.org...

However as we have seen here I view such propaganda with some scepticism.
The obvious answer to the accusation is, no one else could stop Hitler , what on earth could a Pope do to him that the European heads of state could not. It seems more likely it was a political gaff. The inference being that this Pope was an anti-semite ? I find it hard to believe that any person that has attained this rank could possible be such a non Christian ?

"180 Degree Turnaround" & Adopted "Christianity"

Politics is a funny old game. We have to ask though what would have happened to Christianity if the Romans had not adopted it. The Romans were very good at adopting things, the reason for their success was their flexibility and the ability to soak up other traditions. Was it calculated. I would not have thought so. Can you calculate what will inspire people ?

Just like other Governments use the Judaic & Christian Religion to do the same in their "Free & Democratic" Countries!

Well your right , but what else works. It has often been said that Christ was the first communist. Look what happening to the Reds. The idea is sound and Marx had some great thinking , but it just does not work as well as greed. Unfortunately greed and self importance is far more efficient.

You don't necessarily have to practice a Religious Faith to be a Moral Person!

Absolutely right, can�t argue with that. What it does though is get large groups of people to follow the same code.

In the end we are talking more along the lines of politics , if pure religion was available then I think you would find it hard to argue against it. But these turns in history , I submit are more politically motivated than powered by any religious conviction, obviously they are well outside of any of the rhetoric of any Church, let alone the Catholic Church.

Originally posted by MysticOfRadiance
the skull and bones society has the '322' signature which is a bible quote i think?.

Sorry guys but just what does this have to do with this discussion? I am just curious what made you think this was the thread to post this question (is that even a question?!?!)?

CC this thread seems kind of out of character for you... Just an observation...

Originally posted by billmcelligott
Well thats a new one on me Christainity part of the NWO.

The Axeman, scroll a few lines up the page.

[edit on 3-12-2004 by MysticOfRadiance]

I seen a couple of post back that someone brought up the pedophile priest issue. I am not defending a pedophile in anyway but I wanted everyone to see www.reformation.com... This shows the sexual abuse is everywhere. There is a name on the list of a youth minister I knew at the Homewood Gospel church. His name is Herman Glenn. Now ex-minister Glenn used to tell us of the evil priest in the Catholic Church molesting everyone. Kind of funny because it seems Herman would say this and go out and do the same thing. Now my point to this is this; this is a problem everywhere and we have to be aware where ever we are.

Now as for the Catholic Church forbidding masonry; yes the Catholic Church forbids masonry. So what, if you are a mason and are not Catholic why do you care. I am catholic and I could care less if any of you are masons or want to be masons. It is your life fell free to do what you want.

Also the Knights of Columbus is a separate organization from the Catholic Church. Yes you have to be catholic to join (believe it or not I know a Lutheran who joined) but that does not mean we are under the Catholic Church.

Absolutely correct.

Matters not if the individual is a pedophile Mason, Priest, Kof C or whatever he should be dealt with with the utmost vigour.

Children must be protected at all times.

Originally posted by billmcelligott
Chief


21. A "Book of the Law" shall constitute an indispensable part of the furniture of every Lodge.

I assume you mean the "Book of The Law" by Aliester Crowley? I would have figured only the top 5% of Masons would ever get to see such a book, as 95% of all Masons are decieved as to the real truth of Freemasonary.

You may assume all you like my friend but you would have to get Mr Crowley from the 20th Century back to the 18th to make the claim.

Anderson wrote the original Constitution of Freemasonry in 1728.

Also Mr. Crowleys Masonic credentials wer highly suspicious.

Originally posted by TgSoe

I assume you mean the "Book of The Law" by Aliester Crowley?

The "Book of the Law" is a synonym for the Bible, one of the Three Great Lights of Masonry. The term is derived from the Hebrew "Torah", which denotes the first five books of the Bible, and literally means "law".