It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Israel and the Church, in History and for Contemporary Times. To be continued LORD willing.

page: 4
2
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 14 2014 @ 04:50 PM
link   


First premise, what is a false Jew?

Second premise, who is good?

There are none righteous, no not one.

First I thank you because of your response.
False believers are those who claim they are believers but they act against their beliefs while they know the truth. False Jews, False Christians and False muslims, False Humanist and .....

Righteousness comes from God. And God has many names since humanity has many languages. For example Jews who speak Hebrew say Yahweh and Jesus who speaks Aramaic says Elah and Arabs who speak arabic say Allah.
All of them are speaking about one God. And you said righteousness comes from Jesus. Ok this is because you believe Jesus is God or an incarnation of God. I say Jesus is righteous and his righteousness comes from his God.


Just being a good person does not make us righteous. Even our best acts cannot ever make us righteous, it just means we did a good thing, that's all, because even the wicked do good things sometimes. But the wicked are not righteous.

Exactly. We should believe in our Lords. However you say Jesus is the Lord and He is an incarnation of God. I say Jesus is the Lord but not the Incarnation of God. Better to say Jesus is an Imam, an alive Imam. Every road needs a sign, something which shows the straight and best path to the truth. Imam is the sign which directs and help people in this way. People may be very good drivers but they are driving in the road which will not lead to the truth. So the role of Imam or leader or Lord or whatever you call it is very very important. Just true believers are the victorious. It is over 2000 thousands that Jesus is alive and He is waiting.
Muhammad was a prophet an Imam of mercy. mercy for all the world. He entered Mecca peacefully. He entered home of His enemies peacefully. This is we believe it is predicted in OT.
any how I never want that make you convert to anything. I just wanted to say there isanother Imam the twelfth Imam. It is over 1000 years that He is alive. His mother is from Israel from Saint Peter and his father is from Ishmael from Muhammed, through Fatima and Ali. We believe that he is the son of man in gospels.
We believe that He was promised in OT from descendants of Ishmael from Muhammad. Any how all that we believe is also related to Bible However you may not think that it is true.
You said when Jesus returns many Jews become Christians. Ok of course when He returns many things will change. and many muslims may also follow !


The difference in us and you, it's the God we believe in, our God is righteous and holy, but imparts His righteousness and holiness upon us, if we please Him through our faith and acceptance of His holiness. And the other difference, Jews and Christians believe in communion with God, that we have access now through prayer to the very place God is. Right now, we have that access, even Jews know this. Why do you think Jews have constant reminders to themselves to mention HaShem from their lips? Because God hears, right now, presently.

Very Interesting. Of course we fast and pray and we say God hears right now and he is alive. However we mean God of Moses, Jesus and Muhammed.



When you go to prayer, are you still asking for destruction of your enemies, while the Christians and Jews are asking God to have mercy on you? Your allah is not the God of the house of Israel, because Jacob is Israel.

Very interesting. We say similar things also. For example :



[All] praise is [due] to Allah , Lord of the worlds - The Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful, Sovereign of the Day of Recompense. It is You we worship and You we ask for help. Guide us to the straight path - The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray.


All I say is that we are living in the end times. We should be careful and we should distinguish between true believers and false believers. Media, Propagandas and corrupted elites are not for the men of God. Pharaohs will not tolerate Moses. Elites will not tolerate Jesus. They can not tolerate the new world order based on divine truths. Corruption is every where. even among corrupted clerics. in corrupted churches, Synagogues and mosques.

And about zombies. It was somehow a joke. but look at this :



And at that time stand up doth Michael, the great prince, who is standing up for the sons of thy people, and there hath been a time of distress, such as hath not been since there hath been a nation till that time, and at that time do thy people escape, every one who is found written in the book.
Daniel 12

this standing prince can not be Jesus. Jesus the Messiah of Israel came one time before. and he will return again.
He is Al-Qāʾim. He is Mahdi. Ok I know you do not agree. but the problem is that media are saying true muslims are zombies and Mahdi is the anti-christ. while they themselves are the anti-christ !
edit on 14-5-2014 by maes2 because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 14 2014 @ 05:01 PM
link   

originally posted by: jmdewey60
Paul said in Philippians that Jesus was originally in the "form" of god, but so was Adam.
Paul builds his christology on the basis of Jesus being a man who is now declared by God to be Lord, which was the Old Testament definition of the Messiah.

Ok. So I just know that most of new testament is due to Paul. But It seems you do not believe that Jesus is the God. So what kind of Christian you are !?



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 05:30 PM
link   
a reply to: maes2

Ok. So I just know that most of new testament is due to Paul.
If you count the number of pages rather than the number of books, the authentic Paul writings is a lot larger than the pseudo-pauline writings.

But It seems you do not believe that Jesus is the God.
He is the spiritual Adam that never fell.

So what kind of Christian you are !?
The way I look at it, the New Testament may have well have just fell out of the sky as far as anyone understanding it.
I mean there were, but in practical terms, they just have well never existed as far as that knowledge ever being passed down.
So I feel that we may as well just look at it as if we had never heard of it, and ignore the beliefs that come out of the Medieval church which was ignorant even of its original text and were reading a Latin translation.



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 07:46 PM
link   

originally posted by: maes2



this standing prince can not be Jesus. Jesus the Messiah of Israel came one time before. and he will return again.
He is Al-Qāʾim. He is Mahdi. Ok I know you do not agree. but the problem is that media are saying true muslims are zombies and Mahdi is the anti-christ. while they themselves are the anti-christ !


No, Jesus Christ is not the Mahdi.

Do you believe that Christ IS come in the flesh? Do you understand what that means?

You do not believe in the death of Christ on the cross, foretold of old, prophesied by the ancient prophets. His birth, life, death and resurrection is what we believe.

God did not have sex with Mary, The Holy Spirit of God overshadowed her and she conceived. Miracle? The prophet Isaiah says

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


Jesus Christ, son of David, son of Judah, son of Israel. Isaiah, the high priest, orthodox Jew, said that the Son would be called the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father. If you choose to not believe that Jesus is God, then you don't believe Isaiah. There has been no change in the Book of Isaiah since this was written. The Dead Sea Scrolls give proof to that, so the Tanakh and the Christian Bible say the exact same thing, and it was this Book of Isaiah that the apostles believed, even Paul. So you can't accuse Paul of changing anything.

It was spoken by Isaiah, fulfilled by Jesus and preached by Paul. Jesus IS the mighty God, according to scripture. But you have to accept that if you believe Isaiah spoke truth.



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 09:01 PM
link   

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: maes2



this standing prince can not be Jesus. Jesus the Messiah of Israel came one time before. and he will return again.
He is Al-Qāʾim. He is Mahdi. Ok I know you do not agree. but the problem is that media are saying true muslims are zombies and Mahdi is the anti-christ. while they themselves are the anti-christ !


No, Jesus Christ is not the Mahdi.

Do you believe that Christ IS come in the flesh? Do you understand what that means?

You do not believe in the death of Christ on the cross, foretold of old, prophesied by the ancient prophets. His birth, life, death and resurrection is what we believe.

God did not have sex with Mary, The Holy Spirit of God overshadowed her and she conceived. Miracle? The prophet Isaiah says

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


Jesus Christ, son of David, son of Judah, son of Israel. Isaiah, the high priest, orthodox Jew, said that the Son would be called the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father. If you choose to not believe that Jesus is God, then you don't believe Isaiah. There has been no change in the Book of Isaiah since this was written. The Dead Sea Scrolls give proof to that, so the Tanakh and the Christian Bible say the exact same thing, and it was this Book of Isaiah that the apostles believed, even Paul. So you can't accuse Paul of changing anything.

It was spoken by Isaiah, fulfilled by Jesus and preached by Paul. Jesus IS the mighty God, according to scripture. But you have to accept that if you believe Isaiah spoke truth.


I thank God for you. Peace and grace. Yours in Him. Can we correspond?



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 09:57 PM
link   

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: mrphilosophias
Why there should be any contention amongst the people of Israel and the Christian people is a peculiar thing.
contentions exist because the people of israel, at least the religious ones, are pure monotheists and abhor the very idea of gods beside God. Dont bother explaining the trinity to me because Jews oppose the very idea of a man being called God as the polytheistic christians believe. Christianity is the same as hinduism....both believe in multiple deities , and both believe in the idea that a man can be called ''god'', or that God can descend to earth as a man. In fact, some hindus I know are OPEN to the idea that Jesus was an ''incarnation'' of God ...not very different from the hindu belief that Krishna was a human incarnation of God. Just leave the real monotheism to Jews and Muslims and get rid of your infatuation with a perfectly monotheistic people who consider christianity as perverse paganism and curse Jesus as a false prophet.


Skorpion I will concede some points, but on technical grounds. Judeo-Christianity is a monotheistic faith. If by pantheon you mean hierarchies of His Creation (e.g. powers, principalities, thrones, dominions, etc) in the great chain of being, that there are angelic hosts, and if you mean by using the word "god" in the sense of supra-human entities. No Judeo-Christianity is not a Pantheon.

Yet Christ Himself, recalling the Psalmist, said that we are gods! Consider John 10. It is my opinion that this particular scripture offers another concession, and is an allusion to the fact that we are created in the image and likeness of our Creator who is the Most High Ever Living God, that we are called to an ineffable calling, holiness and paradise, an invitation to become members of the family of God, by the bride groom Jesus Christ, the Son of God, verily Emmanuel, God-Incarnate, and the visible Image of the invisible God.

The inconceivable awesomeness of Gods' Power is cause for fear and trembling, and this reverence of God, is the beginning of understanding, to quote King Solomons' wisdom. To consider this awesomeness in earthen vessel would be inconceivable but for the grace of God. If we believe in a traditional definition of God as a being All-Powerful, All-knowing, ever-present, eternal, omni-benevolent, and Creator we would not use the word "god", in lower case. By definition God is a Person, three in fact, hence the capitalization, and as such the word "god" as if it is equivocable to God is obfuscating. It seems counter intuitive that the idea of God, who is Perfect and infinite, could ever be reconciled to the idea that God took on mortal flesh. How could an infinite God be contained by mortal flesh, for instance. This is the sort of obstacle that keeps Moslems from accepting Christ. If we briefly reflect upon Gods' creative efficacy for a moment it should be clear that if God is All-Powerful, and Creator of All-Things, then it would be no problem for God to dwell among flesh, if that were His inclination. This is not to assume to know His thoughts, for the scriptures make clear that His thoughts are not our thoughts, that His ways are as far above our ways as the Highest Heavens above the Earth. For a Jewish, or Moslem, person to categorically dismiss the idea of God-Incarnate not only runs counter to their sacred scriptures, laws, and prophecies, but it is an error in thinking. If God wanted to Incarnate who is to stop Him?

The questions inevitably arise, if God (hypothetical for you agnostics) were to become Man what would He be like? What would we expect from Him? What would He expect from us? I think you will find these answers in Jesus Christ (the messiah! consider it seriously), and in His Word.

When you consider the Gospels of Christ, that He is the Son of God, that He did dwell amongst men, and born of a virgin to fulfill the prophecies, that He was so good to tell us these things before they came to pass, so we could wait in hope of His faithfulness, and not only all these things, but that He did it in an act of inconceivable love, compassion, and mercy to rescue us from the mistake we made in Eden, to save us from death, sin, and suffering, and at cost of His precious blood. Do you believe? Do you have faith like Abraham? In Christ we are forgiven, for in Christ Jesus the requirements of the law, the prophecies, and the Word are fulfilled. If we win we will surely die, but He didn't create us for death. God is good, not a tyrant! Yes His Justice is perfect and fierce, but so is His mercy, compassion, faithfulness, and kindness.



Gospel of John, Chapter 3.
16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him.


He is risen! By the cross of Christ we are saved! Jesus is the unblemished paschal lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. He is the Perfect atoning sacrifice. Jesus is the Messiah that the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob promised, and I hope you believe. Be diligent about these things, and search out the scriptures yourself.

What an awesome God is He! His Love endures forever!
edit on 14-5-2014 by mrphilosophias because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 10:59 PM
link   

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Islam ackowledges that God sent the Torah, the Gospel and the Zibbur to the Israelites...

The ISRAELITES .. not the MUSLIMS. And yet the Muslims try to say that those Hebrews were really Muslims. It's silly. And they rewrite history to try to make their religion somehow legitimate and tied to the Hebrews.

the 'israelites' are a race/ethnic group who were ''muslim'' in the sense they were monotheistic with a perfect understanding of God's oneness... submitting to the will of God alone...not a man-god or a trinity...just God alone.
edit on 14-5-2014 by sk0rpi0n because: aded extra points



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 11:09 PM
link   
a reply to: mrphilosophias

Yes.

We may correspond.



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 11:19 PM
link   

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
.

.

.

SO WHAT? Of course the Jews are going to say that Jesus isn't God. .

its kind of a big deal because Christians hijacked Jewish scriptures to validate pagan ideas about trinity and Jesus being god. Without a foundation in Jewish scriptures, christianity would be a cult centered around a random Israelite with magical powers who died. Christians like to claim some special 'relation' with the jews/Israel ....the op is an example...but religious Jews want nothing to do with Christianity and have organized counter missionary actions. They even expose ''Jews'' for Jesus as phonies trying to steal their culture and religious heritage. Of course, this only applies to the type of christians who accept certain events recorded in the Old Testament involving the family of Abraham.
edit on 14-5-2014 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 11:49 PM
link   

originally posted by: mrphilosophias

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: mrphilosophias
.
.


If God wanted to Incarnate who is to stop Him?

,
A hindu can use your argument as well. So what exactly is the difference between Jesus and Krishna? Personality wise, both are ''god in human form''... And dont tell me Jesus is the true god because you think the bible is true.



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 11:49 PM
link   

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Islam ackowledges that God sent the Torah, the Gospel and the Zibbur to the Israelites...

The ISRAELITES .. not the MUSLIMS. And yet the Muslims try to say that those Hebrews were really Muslims. It's silly. And they rewrite history to try to make their religion somehow legitimate and tied to the Hebrews.

the 'israelites' are a race/ethnic group who were ''muslim'' in the sense they were monotheistic, submitting to the will of God alone.


Not one prophet foretold Mohammed, therefore not Muslim, rather, the Muslims are quasi-Jews, Muslims believe in a god, not the one of the Jews, but in monotheism, and not in the same sense of monotheism.

The words monotheism and polytheism are not found in the Bible or the Torah at all. At different times, the Jews did worship other gods. And if you went by Isaiah, who was a high priest in the temple, then the concept of God as three, is very evident in the faith. Otherwise Isaiah, who did call the Shema Y'Israel, being in the office of high priest, could not give that prophecy.

There is no logical fallacy here, Isaiah believed God to be one as in unity and therefore to prophecy about the coming Messiah, son of David, means that he had to understand echad as unity in order to even give the prophecy.

Isaiah administered the Torah laws, his job required it. Therefore, as an Orthodox Jew, Isaiah was promoting monotheism as a God of unity, rather than just one god.

But let's see how many prophecies are given about Jesus in the OT

Messiah would be born in Bethlehem. Micah 5:2
Messiah would be born of a virgin. Isaiah 7:14
Messiah's throne will be anointed and eternal. Psalm 45:6-7 Daniel 2:44
Messiah would be declared the Son of God. Psalm 2:7
Messiah's price money would be used to buy a potter's field. Zechariah 11:12-13
Messiah would be given vinegar to drink. Psalm 69:21

Of all of the prophecies given and there isn't enough space in this post, we can see that the belief of the Messiah as God has been within Judaism since the beginning, all these prophets were more than just prophets, they were also priests. So as priests who knew Torah and administered Torah laws, didn't violate Torah at all, rather upheld Torah.

Was Jesus born in Bethlehem? Yes. And even if you think Joseph and Mary made it self-fulfilling in that, it doesn't answer for the Romans who did give Him vinegar while on the cross. Also, it doesn't answer for Caiaphas giving the blood money back to Judas who then threw it in the potter's field. Caiaphas was also a high priest.

But to say they were Muslim, absolutely not because the monotheism you propose goes against the very essence of the words of the prophets. And here is where you get it wrong, the Shema Y'srael says "The Lord OUR God, the Lord is one" Therefore, not true monotheism as they did believe there were other gods. At times they even worshiped other gods.

But this God, the one they called OUR GOD, is God in Unity, the three men that Abraham called Lord, unity. And by saying Son of God, as in equal in essence and substance, then the prophets could not be monotheists as you propose.

Psalm 2:7

7 I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: He said to me, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father.


As your Quran says that Allah is not a father, then Allah is not the same God of the Jews, because it was the Jewish prophet who proclaimed this. If you must believe the prophets, then you must believe every prophecy given by them.

Do you believe every prophecy, even the ones that specifically go against the "pure monotheism" that you mistakenly think that they believed. They simply did not, because God also sits and resides over the counsel of the gods. If you believe they submitted to the will of God, then they submitted to the will of God to bring the Messiah into the world by a virgin, that God Himself would call Son, that God determined that the Son shall suffer and die, and that the Son shall be raised again. That was the will of God that Jesus was submitted to. Why? Because He is God and fulfilled the will of the FATHER. God is Father, Son and Holy Ghost, eternal and in unity, from Elohim in Genesis, to Abraham in Genesis 18, to the prophets over the several thousand years of prophecy, to the day Jesus walks out of the tomb alive and ascended 40 days later.

Your monotheism and the Torah's prophet's monotheism, isn't the same. Otherwise, they would not have called God Elohim in the very first verse of Genesis. Elohim is the We, Elohim is the Triune God, even they know this and have never changed it.

"In the beginning, Elohim created the heaven and the earth". It has never been changed.



posted on May, 15 2014 @ 12:00 AM
link   
a reply to: mrphilosophias

He is risen! By the cross of Christ we are saved! Jesus is the unblemished paschal lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
I think you are mixing metaphors here.
The Paschal lamb was not a sin sacrifice, but a commemoration of the Exodus.
The "lamb who takes away the sins of the world" phrase only exists in the Bible as coming from John the Baptist.
It is probably a reference to the Suffering Servant story in Isaiah 53.
The translation "takes away", for the Greek word, airó, is interpretive rather than literal since it actually means to "lift up".
This was what the Suffering Servant does, who is described as being the lamb dumb before the shearer, is to lift up the condition of being a designated sinner, to being one who receives the riches of God.

He is the Perfect atoning sacrifice.
That is one interpretation.
The Greek word is hilastérion in Romans 3:25, which Martin Luther understood as the Mercy Seat.
In 1 John 4:10, where it is commonly translated as "atoning sacrifice", there is no word in the Greek for 'sacrifice', so this is an interpretation, and literally just means an offering of reconciliation.
The preposition used suggests a meaning in line with the lifting up of he Suffering Servant story.
God offered to us, Jesus, to lift up the condition of sinfulness that the entire world is plagued with.
God does not need a blood sacrifice in order to forgive sins.
Even in Leviticus, it wasn't the blood, but the burning of the goat's (or lamb's, if a goat is not available) fat on the fire of the altar that makes a savory fragrance, the atmosphere of which the priest is able to make atonement in.

The "He is risen!" part of your post is what the focus is on in the New Testament, and also in the Suffering Servant story in Isaiah 53.
We can be righteous in that we do good deeds and refrain from committing acts of evil, but we would still be sinners because our very physical existence of being made of bodies of flesh descended from a long line of sinners makes it impossible to ever be totally free from sin.
Jesus was made in that exact same flesh, and was executed as a criminal, but was vindicated in God's judgment by being raised from the dead, which gives us hope that if we are filled with that spirit of Christ, we will be raised from the dead, too.
edit on 15-5-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2014 @ 12:05 AM
link   

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
.

.

.

SO WHAT? Of course the Jews are going to say that Jesus isn't God. .

its kind of a big deal because Christians hijacked Jewish scriptures to validate pagan ideas about trinity and Jesus being god. Which is why christians hitch a ride on Jewish scriptures (without which christianity would be a cult centered around a random Israelite with magical powers). Christians like to claim some special 'relation' with the Jews/Israel ....this thread is an example...but religious Jews want nothing to do with Christianity. Of course, this only applies to the type of christians who accept certain events recorded in the Old Testament involving the family of Abraham.


The Jews do not say it yet, as a whole group, but throughout history there have been Jews who have been accepting Jesus as Messiah. Just because all don't yet, does not mean they all won't because there are Jews who do accept.

Just tonight, my very religious Jewish friend called me to ask me to pray for her father. She knows how I pray and that I pray to Jesus, and yet still asks for prayer. So you make a straw man argument, a non sequitur, because in Judaism, it is at the individual level, if a Jew chooses to believe in Jesus, they are still Jews according to Judaism and cannot be denied the fact they have a Jewish mother. That identity is held in place.

This is why those who believe in Jesus are called Messianic Jews, which is really what I am, a Messianic Jew. But I have very Ashkenazi rabbi cousins on my mom's side and descend from a very old Sephardi family on my dad's mom's side. But I think you just aren't aware of the different factions within Judaism.

There are Hasidic, Ultra-Orthodox, Orthodox, Conservative, Reform and Messianic. Among the Hasidic there are Lubavitcher and Bobavitcher. But there is also Mizrahi Jews in Iraq and Iran, Yemeni Jews, and Sephardim. The ones you are most likely familiar with are Ashkenazi Hasidic. Those are the guys who wear the wide brim black hats and the curly hair things who also wear phylacteries and prayer shawls on their heads. There are Sephardi Orthodox who also dress like that, however they use some different words in prayers.

So when you say "religious Jew" which kind are you talking about?



posted on May, 15 2014 @ 12:21 AM
link   
a reply to: WarminIndy

The Jews do not say it yet, as a whole group, but throughout history there have been Jews who have been accepting Jesus as Messiah.
You know, a big chunk of the original Christian church was composed of Jews.
The reason there are so many supposed "Jews" now is that there was a big conversion to Judaism in the Middle Ages (by central Asian pagans).
The prophecies were fulfilled, you just have this other thing, the synagogue of Satan, that makes it seem as if the conversion to Christianity never happened.
edit on 15-5-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2014 @ 04:59 AM
link   

originally posted by: WarminIndy
No, Jesus Christ is not the Mahdi.
Do you believe that Christ IS come in the flesh? Do you understand what that means?

Of course Jesus is not Mahdi. Jesus is a great prophet. What do you mean by flesh. Jesus was walking and eating like me and you. And He was born from his Mother like me and you but as you said it was a miracle. Because He had no father. And he was a prophet and speaking while He was an infant.
But Jesus is not the twelfth star predicted in the revelation of John 12. Twelfth star is from Fatima. Appearance of Fatima is a sign of end times. You would say Mary appeared in the city of Fatima. But I do not agree. She was Fatima with a crown of twelve stars and Sun and Moon. Jesus is not the twelfth imam. as some Christian experts say most of references to the "Son of Man" is not about Jesus, it is about someone else who will accompanied Jesus.


You do not believe in the death of Christ on the cross, foretold of old, prophesied by the ancient prophets. His birth, life, death and resurrection is what we believe.

Of course. But Do you know if you say Jesus was dead on the cross then what would happen !?
Look at this ::
"Eli Eli lama sabachthani?" which means (My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?) Matthew 27:46.
I never believe that that man on the cross was Jesus or God. Jesus and men of God never say such things. Martyrdom is the love of men of God. They do not fear and they rely on their God like Abraham. I think Christians themselves are in doubt about Jesus on the cross.


Isaiah For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

the part you quoted is interesting most likely it is about Jesus. I want to check the Hebrew words ! I do not trust the translations !!
There are many references to Jesus in OT. But most of them are mistranslated to alter the truth and to clean trace of Jesus.
Wait a minute I found it and checked the Hebrew words. There is something wrong especially about the word God. But yes it is likely the word Father is mentioned.
Even if it had said God, It is contrary to wisdom. So I offer that you always check the Hebrew words and then It should not be contrary to wisdom. I can show how they have mistranslated OT to clean sign of Jesus.
God is the word existence and it does not need any part. It is not needy. We are needy. I agree Jesus is the father and Lord of Israel and all who follows him but he is not God.
edit on 15-5-2014 by maes2 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2014 @ 05:25 AM
link   

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
the 'israelites' are a race/ethnic group who were ''muslim'' in the sense they were monotheistic with a perfect understanding of God's oneness... submitting to the will of God alone...not a man-god or a trinity...just God alone.

- Israelites aren't Muslim in any sense of the word.
- Christians worship God alone. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
Three manifestations of the ONE GOD. So again, your Muslim spin fails.



posted on May, 15 2014 @ 05:30 AM
link   

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Christians hijacked Jewish scriptures to validate pagan ideas about trinity and Jesus being god.

MUSLIMS hijacked the Jewish scriptures to validate their pagan ideas about Allah and Islam (which is FULL of pagan practices) and Muhammad somehow being 'the holy spirit' foretold in ancient scripture. Which is absurd. MUSLIMS hijacked the Jewish characters to try to lend credibility to their fictional stories ... like trying to claim Abraham built the Kaaba ... which he didn't.


Without a foundation in Jewish scriptures,

Sure .... but that's where it ENDS. The Jews don't accept the New Testament. Again .... SO WHAT? The Jews are NOT the final word in what is accurate and what isn't. The Jews don't have all the answers. They don't have to put their 'seal of approval' on something in order for it to be true.



posted on May, 15 2014 @ 07:17 AM
link   

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
its kind of a big deal because Christians hijacked Jewish scriptures to validate pagan ideas about trinity and Jesus being god. Without a foundation in Jewish scriptures, christianity would be a cult centered around a random Israelite with magical powers who died. Christians like to claim some special 'relation' with the jews/Israel ....

Such concepts are imposed on Christianity by corrupted Jews. Those who entered Christianity and ruined it. They could not fight with Christianity. Christianity was spreading. So they had and have no choice unless to divert it. And they are and were doing so about Islam too.
They opposed Saint Peter true successor of Jesus and they ruined Christianity from within. Do not you see that how Catholic church and corrupted mosques are aligned with international Zhionism.
Christians did not hijack Jewish scriptures. Pagan ideas entered by corrupted jews into the both Christianity and Islam. Specially Christianity. That was Jews who were living in the Pagan lands like Egypt. They would live with Pagan ideas. Then they immigrated. Look at how ATS is full nonsenses that Jesus was god of Egypt or .......
They were and are cleaning signs of Jesus. Those corrupted and false Jews.
Jesus is alive. He is servant of God. He can help people with God's permission. He can pray for people with God's permission.



posted on May, 15 2014 @ 07:36 AM
link   
a reply to: mrphilosophias

I'm not bitter towards anyone but my eyes are wide open and have been for a long time. I give all people a chance. It doesn't matter what religion or race they are, if they are decent human beings then I see none of that. I call things the way I see them at risk of being called "anti-Semitic". But I promise you, it isn't me who is bitter. I don't have a bitter heart like most of them do. I've seen it, I've lived it, I know.



posted on May, 15 2014 @ 08:51 AM
link   
a reply to: Fylgje
I am anti_Semitist ! Semitism is the racism. If Jews are truly The Chosen people of God, why do not they invoke death, if they are truthful. There is no chosen people anymore. Jews became cursed because of their corruptions. And they are still after corruption. Do not they fear from God. Of course, just some groups of Jews have remained faithful.
Moses just remained 10 days more away from their people. Soon they started to worship the calf of Egypt. They opposed Aaron successor of Moses. and they got bewildered. Christians opposed saint Peter successor of Jesus and they got bewildered. Muslims forgot Ali successor of Muhammad and they got bewildered.

and Lucifer opposed God and did not obey Adam and he got Bewildered.

These are all repeated stories throughout humanity. and even universe. Humanism and opposing the elected of God.



new topics

top topics



 
2
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join