In defense of lazy Employees

Oh, you didn't tell him how long it would *really* take, did ya? ... You've got a lot to learn if you want people to think of you as a miracle worker- Scotty

One of the "life lessons" someone tried to teach me when working construction was, "Always give 80%, not 100%. That way when you're feeling like crap and only working at 50%, it won't seem so bad. Also, when you give 100%, people will think you're working at 120% and think you're amazing".

a reply to: MystikMushroom

That is a good advice in live, always save something under the sleeve.

Burning out is not good anyways

originally posted by: James1982

Why is it OK for an employer to do the bare minimum, but not the employee?
.

It's a contract. A company is hiring you for an agreed upon compensation and package of benefits in exchange for an agreed upon level of effort. The door is always open for the employee to walk out of and seek a better offer, but that would take effort which a lazy employee probably has a serious lack of. So long as the company is compensating the employee at the mutually agreed upon rate, the company is upholding their end of the contract. If, however, the employee fails to put forth the agreed upon level of effort and workmanship, they are in breach of the contract and can justifiably be impacted by the consequences.

No company "owes" anyone a job... you earn your damn job. Whether it's managing million dollar accounts or flipping burgers, it's all the employee. If you feel undervalued or overworked, quit and find a different career path! But, as previously stated, staying put and bitching about corporate greed is far easier and more acceptable to a lazy worker.

Of course, the way the USA is going right now, give it a few more years and I'm sure some political asshole will get a law passed that dictates every worker deserves some sort of bi-weekly dowry just because they exist and have put forth the effort of living another day.

You want me to work hard, then pay me well. Simple as that. I am not gonna run myself into the ground for what amounts to like 50 bucks a day after taxes. Don't expect me to work hard, and expect me to take any better job I can find in a heartbeat. Employers don't seem to have any loyalty to people working for them anymore, so don't expect workers to be loyal either. It's a two way street, no matter how retarded bosses may think otherwise.

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
If these people used the same approach when running a hot dog stand, they would say 'I'll accept whatever you will pay, and you can still get all the toppings. Sure, they will sell some hot dogs, but there is no question they are short-changing themselves. Just like the customer won't pay much for that hot dog, the employer won't pay more than they have to in order to keep that worker around.

This is absolutely correct, "modern business owners" are essentially "rent seekers". Offering the minimum product or service that the customer will accept and in turn paying the minimum wage that an employee will accept. As many have said currently there are 100 people willing to take a job someone else doesn't like or gets fired from, so employers, in the pursuit of "rent" continue to offer shoddy products/services using shoddy staff training, shoddy wages and benefits. Those who get the most "rent" while paying the least amount in training, benefits and wage costs WIN! So as in any "rental" relationship, is it the duty of the paying tenant to fix the broken water heater? Basically modern employers are "rent seekers" hoping their Handymen/employees pay out of their own pocket to satisfy the customer/renter. Ah.. the foolish "boot straps" mentality of those small business owners dreaming of their chance to one day be part of the 1% at the expense of others.

BUT in the grander scheme of things, the problem with the labor market today in the USA is that there is TOO MUCH labor available for employers to choose from. Limiting that available labor is the ONLY effective means the masses will have on wages and costs for services in the future, not voting, not civil unrest and not conservation.

Basically we have TOO many people being born and not enough desire on the behalf of the "owners of capital" to employ them all for the sake of having a stable and safe civilization to live in day to day. The owners of capital want more people born, not simply for "growing the future tax base", but for the true purpose of DECREASING overall wages for everyone. More people, MEANS less jobs and pay per person, affecting even the educated and highly skilled. Its actually quite simple for the peons/peasants of the world to start having more say in how the world is run. Simply don't have children nor support those having children. The results will be wages soaring and diverse employment options, expanding for all.

I have been making the argument, for a very long time, that the ever increasing "non-1%'er" population is lowering the overall influence of those whom are NOT in the 1%.

How is this possible, you ask?

Because its easier to "pay less" or "nothing at all" to contracted or indentured "labor" when there is another willing laborer/slave waiting in the wings to do the work for less or nothing at all. Its actually quite simple, if those NOT in the 1% refused to get married or have babies from here on out & aggressively block any future immigration, the 1% would very quickly need to raise wages. Otherwise nothing the 1% want to get "worked on" would ever get done. When low-wage/low-skilled labor becomes scarce in the larger market, wages go up.

There are not enough paying jobs to go around as it is and the "baby makers" somehow think bringing another human onto the earth is a good idea. Their future, unborn, child is going to do nothing except drive down wages for everyone else who was already here. These people, quite simply put, need to rethink their purpose in life. Its not to make babies in a world without a job for them to earn a living from. People who think like this are doing nothing more than driving the rest of us deeper into slavery at the hands of the "owners of capital", whom use the many "extra living bodies" as an excuse to constantly drive down wages and increase the costs of goods, due to BOTH increased demand or lack of demand. People need to change their world view, RIGHT NOW, its not about making babies anymore! Save a job for a person already born and living, by getting a vasectomy and vilifying those who choose to make more human beings through biological reproduction!

Guess when the largest “recorded” wage increase happened in history for, non-land owing, wage-laborers, post the introduction of fiat currency?

Any ideas?

I’ll tell you, it was after the black death pandemic in the 14th century, especially in post-pandemic England.

How is that possible?

Because “the owners of capital”, post-black-death-pandemic still needed wage-laborers, but there was a HUGE shortage of able bodied people, so, in order for ANY "work to get done" they had to pay the peasants and other undesirables more, SIGNIFICANTLY MORE. This principle is still at work today, when you take the time to recognize that portions of the population are actively discouraged from participating in the full-time labor market. This is easily done, by throwing people in prison, forcing them to attend formal school longer and allowing more people to claim themselves as disabled or collect long/short term welfare. The next obvious step for government to further reduce the number of people participating in the full-time labor market is to allow them easier access to welfare or as some have been recommending lately, a guaranteed minimum wage or allowance that everyone gets, without having to provide labor to an employer first. I’m not going to go into any specific economic theory, but this above noted cohort of non-participants, collecting a base amount of guaranteed welfare/allowance, will likely keep wages stable for those whom are still working full-time. If all people capable of working full-time, entered the job market simultaneously, wages would crash and to a certain extent have, as of 2014.

Contrary to popular, academic and authoritative opinions, history has already proved my above inference to be VERY effective against the 1% quest to drive down wages. Hence, if those NOT in the 1% refused to get married or have babies from here on out & aggressively blocked any future immigration, both legal and illegal, the 1% would very quickly need to raise wages for non-land owing/peasants/undesirables/wage-laborers, etc. Otherwise nothing the 1% want to get "worked on" would ever get done. When low-wage/low-skilled labor becomes scarce in the larger market, wages go up, FOR EVERYBODY. For us the peasants, "self induced labor shortages" is one of the few ways to get the "owners of capital" to pay more for services rendered. This includes the concept of the UNION, but Americans have already voted against their interests in that respect. All they have left now to negotiate with is making less babies and stopping both legal & illegal immigration.

Its not simply about "wealth redistribution", its about an overabundance of labor on the market and the ability of the 1% to artificially drive down wages of the 99%. When the Black Death came about and wiped out "excess labor", the 1%'ers of the day somehow found "extra money" to pay said labor, for services rendered. Which means it was always available and wages could have been higher previously, but instead the 1%, of the day, chose to play the game, "pit the desperate against each other".

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
No company "owes" anyone a job... you earn your damn job. Whether it's managing million dollar accounts or flipping burgers, it's all the employee. If you feel undervalued or overworked, quit and find a different career path! But, as previously stated, staying put and bitching about corporate greed is far easier and more acceptable to a lazy worker.

The French Revolution and the Peasant's Revolt also function within my "scarce-labor of ALL types" theory, resulting in higher wages being paid to non-land owing/peasants/undesirables/wage-laborers. During the French Revolution, from 1789 to 1799, birth rates fell dramatically and the earlier Peasants Revolt, of 1381, not surprisingly, had roots in the aftermath of the Black Death. In fact, the Peasants Revolt was triggered by the "Statute of Labourers 1351". Essentially, the sustained wage growth for non-land owing, wage-laborers was rising so quickly that the English parliament, a few decades post the Black-Death, under King Edward III, introduced the "Statute of Labourers 1351", which was used by the "Owners of Capital", as an artificial means to drive down the wages of non-land owning peasants. Despite market conditions signalling the need for increased wages.

avalon.law.yale.edu...

The Statute of Laborers; 1351 ("Statutes of the Realm," vol. i. p. 307.)

Its simple, newborn babies, legal immigrants and illegal immigrants destroy the wage negotiating power of the 99% and the 1% know this.

The problem is that employees who make a "living wage" are as lazy, or even lazier, than employees who make the minimum wage. This is especially true of union or civil service workers. Why? because it's just about impossible to get them fired. They know this, and if they are inherently lazy in the first place, this just encourages them. No, not all union and civil service workers are lazy. Some of them work very hard and give value for what they are paid. I'm just saying that the presence of work rules and contracts makes it a lot easier to be lazy in these positions. I've been in both positions and seen how this works. This is very bad for morale when I see lazy workers beside me whom I know are screw-offs, yet they make as much or more than me.

The whole problem is because people are usually paid by the hour. In many jobs this could easily be fixed by paying by the widget or by commission with a provision that you must produce a quality product. If you get paid precisely for what you produce, instead for your mere lazy presence at a site, the incentive is there for you to make as much as you can. You want to be lazy? Go ahead! You will therefore make less than me because I am more productive. If your productivity falls before a given minimum level, you're fired.

So I think, based on my own experience in the workforce, that if there is a correlation here, it is an inverse one. Better paid workers are lazier than others. Paying workers more money does NOT make them better workers.

I don't give a rat's ass about what employers think really, but I have found that time passes faster when you keep busy, and if you're gonna do something you might as well do it well.

I've have never disappointed an employer by under performance excepting the occasional bad day.

I have never been fairly compensated for the work I do for the entire time I have been employed in my life either, considering I have frequently found myself to be the person taking up other people's slack.

I think the OP is right.

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

If you don't like the pay get more skills and or work your way up.
Iam doing Makaton training, nvq in care, autism training and loads more...when I get them I will walk into a job which will earn me 10k more a year.
I agree a good work ethic does pass the time and gives me satisfaction on a job well done.

I read some of the thread and did not once see anyone mention how technology has been replacing labor for some years now, forever in fact.

When there are no longer people to whine and bitch and cry and fight and get sick and injured, just machines doing the work with a few technicians and maintenance personnel, those people who used to work those jobs will not have the funds to buy their widgets anyway.

So really, what's actually wrong here?.

You don't really believe this economy is somehow improving do you?.

IT CAN'T.

The whole 'employee' thing has always amused me though, I've always been self-employed in my head, even when legally 'employed' - it is my choice to stay in any job.
Why is anyone crying about 'lazy' workers? It is management/employer remit to weed out people who don't carry out the role described in the employment contract so as a business it is the management to blame for productivity.
I expect anyone I'm paying to do work to do as little as they can get away with - it is not their business, and I have never understood the belief that employees suddenly 'love' the company because it is paying them for their work.
I've pretended to love a company and support it's business plan, but it's always been 'pretend' as I only really give a toss about how much work I have to do and how good the earner is for it.

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

Unless we can buy a robot and send it out to do our jobs but I fear a rebellion would ensue .

a reply to: James1982

So basically you are saying that ALL business owners are bad and think the way you described and because of that all lazy employees are justified.

Nope.

People like that should starve and by the hunger in their bellies they should then be motivated to find bread to bring to their mouth.

OR

You dont act like a jerk and help as much as you can, making the whole experience that much more pleasant and productive for yourself and others .

Lazy bad employees can close down a business sending all their coworkers to dire ends.

Thats what you want? Average people losing their life´s work after incredible sacrifices and for their employees to lose the stability and prosperity that work brings after the business suffers and they are let off? ....just so lazy people can chill?

I want to insult you for making this thread..lol. I will just say that and leave it there.

EDIT TO ADD:
I have worked in some great places where everyone was motivated and worked like it was their business. In one place, We never saw so much money...WHY? Because after we tripled sales, our salaries were tripled. We worked like a boss and were treated like one. It wasnt glamorous, but we ended up running the place and did what we wanted...which was MAKE MONEY as easily as possible.

The "do little or do nothings" never understood that. They didnt last and last I checked on some of them, they still dont get it, hence why they never moved on to better things. Still someone else´s CRAP employee.

If you cant find pride in your honest work for its well done completion then you will never be satisfied with anything less than a winning lottery ticket. That really is pathetic.

The disillusioned rock star generation....no talent, no ambition, nothing....but the want of riches for little to no work.
I am not sorry for them. They usually ruin good things for everyone else.

Sometimes, regardless of education or skillsets, fair compensation cannot be found anywhere.

But really, it's up to the employee to conduct his affairs in such a way as to make his pay enough to get by in most cases excepting really ,really low paying jobs with really , really crappy rotating schedules and such which make you crazy and sick.

I have all kinds of skills and cannot find legitimate employment or fair employment, it's pretty obviously unfair when the intake paperwork is being filled out and the last thing it says on the form is "this agreement is subject to change without notice at the discretion of the management", or whatever.

...Contracts guaranteeing their complete lack of loyalty, I wouldn't suggest anyone get complacent and assume they will be employed tomorrow, and anyone who is stupid enough to be loyal to them other than acting like they are is pretty dumb as they do not deserve any at all, but they'll make you enter into an agreement to do that too if you're too illiterate to read the fine print before you sign.

My last real job was like buying a house, there was so much paperwork before I was hired and I had to ask for copies of everything I signed in order to read it...and they looked at me like I was nuts...but sent it after a few weeks...

That's the kind of # you have to put up with everywhere, so I just do odd jobs and live BELOW my means.

a reply to: boymonkey74

a reply to: tadaman
I'm happy for anyone to be as lazy as they like, just don't bitch when you get pulled up about it, or find the offers of work dry up.
It's all a game really.

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner

I think the whole world will drown in paper work lol I did a 9 hour shift today and 3 hours of that was paperwork, normally not that much but I had to do 4 incident reports.
I know nurses who have quit because all they do is paperwork when they want to care for patients/service users.

You can thank the almighty insurance companies for that.

Their meddling and "middle-man" (agement) cause health care to be nearly double what it should be too.

I am a proud holder of a "Surgycal Tecnishun Dagree" and never had an opportunity to use it before what I learned faded from memory from lack of hands on practice.

During my training though, I really learned I didn't want to do that kind of work anyway even though my GPA 3.878 or thereabouts.

$8.88 an hour to start, two years probation, on call during the entire probationary period and a good idea to fork out money for malpractice insurance too.

Nevermind....

I decide to bend and weld and machine metal instead for nearly twice the starting pay.

a reply to: boymonkey74

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
You can thank the almighty insurance companies for that.

Their meddling and "middle-man" (agement) cause health care to be nearly double what it should be too.

Lame (*Edit* off topic) political point, with due respect.

This one has me tossed in a loop. More like it seems People are becoming more Lazyer no matter which way one wants to coin it! It's taught somehow in school and I missed that class! Ever hear if one works, the days go by really Fast? Nothing worst then hearing some Lazy ^%$74 complaining the days are long!

So how I fixed this problem myself was to do Their Job Also. Funny how it makes my day eazyer and gets on their nerve so to speak. Man Up or get the Hell out of my way, I say! Seems to piss them off for some reason and since the fire was lit under their @ss have to actually do something to save Face!

WHY ask me on what to do when I just started and you been their Like Forever? How Stupid is That? Sure some work around doing anything, most do! Seem somehow Their Above some creatived Law they made in their Heads. The idea of working Hard, doing what you signed up to has gone Out The Window!

Now of course noticing how the world is today. It is a Great Quest to actually find a job that pays anything so the Lost Drive of most could be explained if one cares to play it off that way. For myself only, I go way over the 100%! Sleep well and know if something did happen at work my job will still be there! Even going out for a work night, Late can still do what needs to be done. Now of course my @ss is in next weeks work plans so up on them anyways!

It fills me with Joy when I receive my Check! I do not need a boss to tell me I'm doing Good because I Know It Myself! I can only wonder what goes through the lazy one Mind every Night! Why would one Defend a Lazy Employee? Another Excusese to clain Poor Wages or more like it.

No Wonder Why the wages are so LOW!

Peace

I disagree with the OP, because I despise working with lazy coworkers. I have to admit, however, it's a damn well-written argument.

It does make sense. Employers abuse employees, so is turnabout not fair play?