The Russians never duplicated Apollo 8

a reply to: SayonaraJupiter

OK, so according to you:

The American space experts are lying/wrong.

The Russian experts are also lying/wrong.

The entire scientific community who deal with radiation in space is lying/wrong, and has been from the 1950's till the present time.

Thousands of scientists, engineers, politicians etc etc are all wrong and or making stuff up.

So, where do you personally find information that you accept? Who do you believe? I say you have no sources unless you can show otherwise.

originally posted by: SayonaraJupiter

originally posted by: JimOberg

originally posted by: SayonaraJupiter
The "space experts" are charlatans. That is my statement.

My feelings are hurt
NOT.

Well, I noticed in the old news clips that the term "space expert" and "western space expert" or "space official" is always used when they are trying to guide the propaganda narrative.

Or when a news report is trying to com up with a description of their source,

That's why I had to draw the line.

Again you seem to think you can control the debate to within a narrow set of self-defined parameters. You might be the OP, but you on't own the thread.

This glittering generality of calling people "space experts" is something that we have accepted as normal but it should be set aside, as it is getting in the way of what should be a rational discussion about the Russian Glass Ceiling - from historical sources.

Capitalising the words doesn't make it an official term or lend it some sort of authority. It'd a fake term you've made up for something that doesn't exist.

Did you hear the story about the CIA commandos who kidnapped a Soviet Luna satellite right from under the noses of the Russians, tore it apart, took pictures of it, put it all back together and those dummy Reds never found out about it??
io9.com...

Here's an example of how history can be re-written very simply: where in that article does it say 'commando''? Your use of the word completely changes the implication of how the operation was carried out.

That's not something you will find over at the NASA gift shop. So, what is your opinion on history Mr. Oberg? Is it concrete or what?

That's because NASA isn't the CIA.

a reply to: mrwiffler

I say you have no sources unless you can show otherwise.

astronautix.com

originally posted by: onebigmonkey

This glittering generality of calling people "space experts" is something that we have accepted as normal but it should be set aside, as it is getting in the way of what should be a rational discussion about the Russian Glass Ceiling - from historical sources.

Capitalising the words doesn't make it an official term or lend it some sort of authority. It'd a fake term you've made up for something that doesn't exist.

onebigmonkey denies Russian Glass Ceiling @ 475km!

Is that big enough for ya?

deleted

originally posted by: SayonaraJupiter

originally posted by: onebigmonkey

This glittering generality of calling people "space experts" is something that we have accepted as normal but it should be set aside, as it is getting in the way of what should be a rational discussion about the Russian Glass Ceiling - from historical sources.

Capitalising the words doesn't make it an official term or lend it some sort of authority. It'd a fake term you've made up for something that doesn't exist.

pretty much everybody denies Russian Glass Ceiling @ 475km

ftfy.

SJ, assuming that Space Adventures do indeed take two very rich people around the moon in the next few years (is one of them Jarrah White? Has his PayPal account come up trumps?), will you promise to go away?

originally posted by: Rob48
SJ, assuming that Space Adventures do indeed take two very rich people around the moon in the next few years (is one of them Jarrah White? Has his PayPal account come up trumps?), will you promise to go away?

I predict that deal will fall through due to the currently escalating tensions between the USA and Russia.

Why don't you try going over to www.spaceadventures.com...

It is currently 404d.

A Google search says ominously "This site may be hacked."

As of the time of my post the Space Adventures site is down hard. Maybe the Russians took it down. I don't know that's just speculation. The timing couldn't be better for Russia to cancel space contracts with USA in retaliation for sanctions.

I'm sorry Rob, Space Adventures does not answer the question why Russia has stayed so low in space for 49 years.

Breaking News:

nasawatch.com...

Roscosmos Disavows Plan to Send Space Tourists to Moon, Moscow Times

"Russia's space agency, Roscosmos, will not be involved in a plan to send two space tourists on a flight around the Moon and was not consulted about the project, the federal space agency said. The mission, hatched by U.S.-based space tourism firm Space Adventures and a major Russian spacecraft manufacturer, Energia Rocket and Space Corporation, would see two space tourists travel to the Moon aboard a modified Russian Soyuz spacecraft by 2017. However, Roscosmos was kept out of the loop on the plan. The organizers "could have consulted with us before making such loud announcements," said Denis Lyskov, Roscosmos's deputy chief in charge of piloted flights, Izvestia reported Monday."

A private expedition to the Moon, Space Adventures

"Using flight proven Russian spacecraft we will fly two private citizens and one professional cosmonaut on a free return trajectory around the far side of the moon. They will come within 100km of the Moon's surface. If you chose to join this mission you will see the illuminated far-side of the Moon, and then witness the amazing sight of the Earth rising above the surface of the Moon. We expect our first mission to launch by 2017."

Now Space Adventures site has been hacked or someone has pulled the plug. It's OVER! The 475km Russian Glass Ceiling is confirmed in the today's headlines. There are some pseudo-experts in this thread who have alluded to future missions could break the Russian Glass Ceiling.

I say it's not going to happen without a war in space. Maybe that's why USA just sent up 2 more satellite killers on a Delta IV the other day. What do the pseudo-experts have to say about that?

James Cameron rumored to have purchased one of those tickets to the moon... way back in 2011...?

nasawatch.com...

"The first of two $150 million tickets for a pioneering tourist mission to the moon was off the market Sunday, and its owner was rumored to be the world-famous "Avatar" director James Cameron. Space Adventures, the American company offering the trip scheduled for 2015, said only that the buyer of the ticket was a "well-known" personality. The expedition will begin aboard a Soyuz spaceship launched from Kazakhstan."

edit on 7/30/2014 by SayonaraJupiter because: (no reason given)

a reply to: SayonaraJupiter

I personally don't believe this particular trip will happen in 2017 either. But it won't be long before people are back there.

By the way, 25 pages and you still haven't answered: why do YOU think Russia hasn't sent anyone beyond LEO?

originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: SayonaraJupiter

I personally don't believe this particular trip will happen in 2017 either. But it won't be long before people are back there.

By the way, 25 pages and you still haven't answered: why do YOU think Russia hasn't sent anyone beyond LEO?

Answering that question is the prime objective of this thread. The Russians stopped going up in 1965. Their limit was 475km. I wonder if there was a secret Cold War treaty.... I'll call it the "Russians never duplicated Apollo 8 Space Treaty".

The Americans just sent up a Delta IV with 2 more satellite killers on board. I think there is a clandestine space war is going on above 475km. That's what I think.

a reply to: SayonaraJupiter
When you say "satellite killers" you actually mean "surveillance satellites", don't you? How do surveillance satellites kill anything?

originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: SayonaraJupiter
When you say "satellite killers" you actually mean "surveillance satellites", don't you? How do surveillance satellites kill anything?

unless im mistaken i believe he means lasers..

he was at one time saying that the communication laser onboard ladee was used to fry satellites that would image the moon..

and no im not joking.

a reply to: choos

Uh huh. Let's see what those satellites actually were.

Delta IV Launch:

The Air Force Space Command 4 (AFSPC-4) mission comprises two Geosynchronous Space Situational Awareness Program (GSSAP) spacecraft and the Air Force Research Lab’s Automated Navigation and Guidance Experiment for Local Space (ANGELS).

ATKGSSAP is a four-satellite constellation being developed by the US Air Force to conduct visual monitoring of geosynchronous satellites. The first two spacecraft are being carried by today’s launch, with the remaining two expected to ride an Atlas V into orbit next year.

[...]

The ANGELS satellite, which has a mass of around 70 kilograms (150 lb), is a technology demonstrator which will be operated by the Air Force Research Laboratory. Also constructed by Orbital Sciences, this satellite is designed for one year of service.

What is ANGELS?

As part of Air Force Research Laboratory’s research in advanced Space Situational Awareness (SSA), the ANGELS program examines techniques for providing a clearer picture of the environment around our vital space assets.

[...]

Features:
The ANGELS spacecraft hosts an SSA sensor payload to evaluate techniques for detection, tracking, and characterizing of space objects, as well as, attribution of actions in space. Additional payloads that aid spacecraft operations include a GPS system for GEO and high performance accelerometers. The GPS system uses advanced algorithms from NASA to receive GPS side lobe signals and generate near continuous navigation solutions. The high performance accelerometers precisely measure small spacecraft accelerations for enhanced guidance and navigation. Additional sensor technologies for safe relative navigation will also be tested. The experimental on board vehicle safety system explores methods for dramatically reducing the probability of collision with other space objects in an increasingly congested space environment.

No killer "LASERS" that I can see. Sorry SJ.

a reply to: Rob48

The Americans launched the latest spy satellites in response to threats from other nations.

US launches 2 spy geo-satellites to track ‘nefarious capability’ of other nations
Published time: July 29, 2014 09:14 Get short URL

Neither the costs, nor technical details of the GSSAP program have so far been released.

The GSSAP program “will bolster our ability to discern when adversaries attempt to avoid detection and to discover capabilities they may have which might be harmful to our critical assets at these higher altitudes," Shelton said in the speech. Source rt.com...

Who are the "adversaries" at "higher altitudes" that General Shelton is speaking of? Russia? China? India? Japan? France? But none of those countries has ever sent a manned mission above 475km. Why didn't you quote what General Shelton said?

Is it plausible that the "adversaries" are not humans but maybe extra-terrestrials?

The recent news clips show us the story of the Orion test being pushed back 3 months for the higher priority GSSAP mission. What does that tell you about 475km. This confirms: manned spaceflight takes a back seat during a clandestine satellite space wars.

Those other countries that I mentioned... Russia? China? India? Japan? France?... some of them are trying to "break free" from the US dominated GPS system. Some of them have gone so far to launch geosynchronous satellites in order to build an alternative to USA/GPS. This "competition" is nothing less than a full blown SPACE WAR. Hence, Russia's 49 years of staying below the Glass Ceiling. Hence, the launching of more and more clandestine satellite killers.

Well, It's impossible for any of us to keep up with every little thing that goes on with space news events. Even this thread has demonstrated that the experts can be wrong. So I check the headlines every now and then. I do see a trend.

Why didn't you quote General Shelton? His remarks shed a sinister light on the whole deal now, don't they Rob?

a reply to: SayonaraJupiter

Or.... and I know this is going to be incredibly hard to believe, since you brought up aliens..... the higher altitude threat that they are watching for is a satellite equipped with an ASAT weapon, that could bring down GPS and other important satellites that would be really nice to have around.

originally posted by: choos

originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: SayonaraJupiter
When you say "satellite killers" you actually mean "surveillance satellites", don't you? How do surveillance satellites kill anything?

unless im mistaken i believe he means lasers..

he was at one time saying that the communication laser onboard ladee was used to fry satellites that would image the moon..

and no im not joking.

Choos you really disappointed me. Taking cheap shots like that is really bad etiquette. But we've been adversaries for so long I'll give you a break ... just this time. I won't report you to the mods for making ad hominem/disruptive remarks about the OP. I won't report you to the mods for being off-topic.

I'm giving you a clean slate here in this thread, choos. Give me your best shot. Why have the Russians stayed below 475km for 50 years and why are several countries trying to "break free" from the USA/GPS system.

Btw, space adventures is back on line with a video from CEO
www.spaceadventures.com...

Space Adventures was hacked yesterday. Today CEO Eric Anderson puts up a video from February 2014 which mentions that he sold a seat for a circumlunar mission... but as we know... Roscosmos put the nix on that commercial Soyuz mission over a month ago.

Does anyone else think this is kinda strange?