Woman who MADE UP entire bestselling holocaust memoir is forced to pay back $22.5 million

originally posted by: buster2010
If this woman has been sued for writing a book saying it was the truth when it wasn't then why hasn't Steven Spielberg been sued as well?

lo Buster,

Answers:

1. Mel Gibson still hasn't been brought to justice for the film 'Braveheart'. The most historically accurate part of the movie was the deleted scene where William Wallace wears a jet pack and sword fights a coconut.
2. If we started suing Hollywood for lying and embellishment we would be left with Home & Away, Neighbours, and the Tennis to watch.
3. Spielberg has significantly better legal representation and is potentially a victim of fraud. (Research was a bit harder previously.)
4. I think Misha Defonseca's shadow writer hasn't been sued?

It's a shame it has become difficult to discuss such a major event in our past.

When people lie about experiences in other armed conflicts its so much easier to address, but with this particular topic I suspect many false accounts will over write the true voices of many survivors.

a reply to: yourignoranceisbliss

Nice attempts at deflection there and spin, but my reply was in response to your rant.

You see, the staff on ATS have seen everything I mentioned before. We've seen Holocaust topics laced with bigots, racists and outright ignorant people, and had to remove some fairly unpleasant content from people who don't seem to be able to partake in polite, civilised discussion, and just wish to spread their particular brand of hate, be they outright deniers and those who choose to try and be more subtle.

As such, when topics like this arise, we tend to keep a close eye on them.

As for your freedom of speech, The US Supreme Court has ruled that the owners of private sites to be able to set the parameters of acceptable discussion within their domain. On ATS that is the Terms and Conditions of the site - the ones you read and agreed to when you signed up, and they are quite clear on the type of discussuion allowed on this forum.

If you don't agree with them, you are free to log out, not come back and share your thoughts elsewhere.

originally posted by: yourignoranceisbliss
a reply to: originally posted by: neformore

Who doesn't damn bigots? I've seen no such thing in this thread yet, have you?

We damn those who see jews as sub-human

Same as above. I haven't seen anyone calling Jews sub-human on ATS. Where are you drawing your accusations from? 1940's propaganda?

We damn those who apparently approve of the actions of the Nazi's during WW2 in their attempt to eradicate the jewish population.

No one here is approving of Nazi Germany's actions, and your claim that they wanted to eradicate the Jewish population is purely speculative, likely garnered from a lifetime of indoctrination. If you're going to make speculative accusations, at least be prepared to defend your opinion with evidence that it might be readily disputed with facts. Unless you're of the variety that enjoys to fall back upon the 'beaten horse' premise that you do not need to justify your accusation because someone else, somewhere, has already presented the already defeated argument you propose.

We damn people who apparently have no problem with the historical record from WW2 unless it mentions jewish people (and only jewish people), in which case they deem it to be a lie.

But the historical record DOES include Jewish people and no one has ever refuted that they were involved in the genocide.

We damn those people who cannot differentiate between the actions of an admitted fantasist and the historical accounts from survivors, witness testimonies, photographs and confessions of the people who perpetrated some of the crimes against humanity.

Perhaps you are confused and cannot differentiate yourself, the stories of survivors and the actions of the German people during WWII. Crimes against Humanity were committed towards ALL people, not just Jewish people.

We damn those people who - for some reason - can operate a computer and post on ATS but somehow feign ignorance of why there are holocaust denial laws in certain countries when there are countless research tools on the internet that will provide an explanation for them, and their historical context.

There is no justification for Holocaust Denial Laws, in any country, regardless of what you feel. Countless research tools on the internet will neither justify an excuse for the denial of freedom of speech, and I find it ironic you think another nation's laws are relevant on an American website. If you wish to outlaw free speech on ATS, by all means, spend a moment more on explaining why and a moment less averting responsibility, delegating it to someone or something else. Otherwise your opinion is moot and best kept to yourself.

Those things are the ignorance we wish to deny.

The ignorance you wish to deny. Apparently any opinion you disagree with is something you wish to deny. Before you accuse anyone of "thought crimes" I suggest you educate yourself further. There's a whole internet out there for you to do so, but I suspect you're simply being intentionally naive and only seek to pretend to follow the narrative set forth for you.

Deny Ignorance indeed. You've turned into a cliche, and a weapon to try and stifle dissent. Good work.

This X 1000!
Truth should fear no investigation. Making it illegal to question the holocaust just adds fuel to the fire of people who believe it was a hoax.

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: yourignoranceisbliss

Nice attempts at deflection there and spin, but my reply was in response to your rant.



If you don't agree with them, you are free to log out, not come back and share your thoughts elsewhere.

Interesting you mention the word 'spin', since your entire responses have been nothing but tired parroting of the same revisionist spin that's been circulating ever since WWII.

And thanks for your suggestions. I'm sure you don't mind if I completely disregard your unsolicited advice. You sir, are not ATS incarnate, and I welcome your opinion on any subject even if you wish to deny me mine. That's what sets us apart. You would openly deny me my voice, whereas I'm always willing to listen to other perspectives. You are not my thought police. Your blatant doublethink affects me not at all.



Back onto the subject matter of the OP, I doubt she has much of that wealth left, and I don't see how they plan on collecting it from her. Would they go so far as to auction off her belongings and perhaps jail time to make up the difference?

originally posted by: yourignoranceisbliss

this...

Interesting you mention the word 'spin', since your entire responses have been nothing but tired parroting of the same revisionist spin that's been circulating ever since WWII.

and this

You would openly deny me my voice, whereas I'm always willing to listen to other perspectives.

Really don't add up do they... if you're describing the established historical records and documented evidence from WW2 as "revisionist spin" then it strikes me that you have already dismissed other perspectives to your views.

The Holocaust in my view happened but not in the way it happened or the amount of victims it claimed. The Auschwitz memorial plaque has been changed so much I'm surprised it is not covered in Tip-Ex. 6 million Jews did not die in the Holocaust. Looking at the 'facts' it looks to be less than a million mixed up with Poles, Germans, Russians, Romanians and Gypsies etc.

I'm not a Holocaust denier or a hater of Jews. As far as I'm concerned we are all exactly the same whether we be Black or White or Jew, Christian and Islamic. It doesn't matter which God you follow or where you were born or what colour your skin is.

But the fact that you can't question a horrific event in history is disturbing. If the Zionists say it is illegal or Anti-Semitic for you to question this one event then how is it not the same for the Bolshevik Revolution when it was the Jews doing the massacring or the millions of Indians slaughtered by the Anglo Saxons in the taking over of the Americas, or the American and British forces slaughtering over 1.6 Million people in Iraq.

That's what really get's me. Why when you question this you are thrown in jail or are called a 'Holocaust Denier' and Anti-Semitic? But it doesn't happen when you question any other Genocide or Massacre?

Why?

a reply to: Dorrell

Lets start off with the fact that the Bolsheviks might have some Jews in the upper echelons, but they were not all Jewish. Then let's move on to the Holocaust. It happened and it was horrific. People have been looking at the numbers for years and the total of around (we can never know exactly) six million is well documented. Why do people keep trying to deny how bad it was?

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Why do people keep trying to deny how bad it was

Perhaps because of inconvenient evidence.....




or this one made in response to a documentary for tv on archaeological work at Treblinka....

a reply to: ken10

You really think there was an elaborate hoax?

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: ken10

You really think there was an elaborate hoax?

Anything that appears on a website called 'gaschamberhoax.com' is more than likely to be a load of fetid dingo's kidneys.

For inaccurate books/films/stories just go back a year or so to the motion picture "Argo", a film which made things up and splashed them on the screen like Ben Affleck was Jackson Pollock. It beat out a very accurate "Lincoln" for the Best Picture Oscar. And every film on the 1960s American civil rights movement has left out James Bevel (see my signature) who could be called both the pilot and the navigator of that movement. Facts sometimes get in the way of drama, but at least on ATS, where the slogan used to be "Deny Ignorance" (it's nowhere to be found on the screen now except in posts), people can shuffle through facts, factoids, and nonsense and create a little more of a mental-map of how things were at particular points in history.

I remember reading this a while back
3/30/2014

Archaeologists Find Treblinka Gas Chambers
Dig at Nazi death camp yields first physical evidence of gas chambers, 'massive amounts of human bone.'
www.israelnationalnews.com...

Treblinka eye witnesses identified tile just like these

The first-ever archaeological excavations at the Nazi death camp Treblinka in Poland have revealed new mass graves, as well as the first physical evidence that this camp held gas chambers. The camp had been bulldozed in 1943. To cover their tracks, the Nazis went so far as to plant crops and build a farmhouse on the leveled ground.

youtu.be...

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: ken10

You really think there was an elaborate hoax?

No, not a hoax.....many millions of innocents died by way of atrocities, and some were jews.

But the way it is portrayed today has many flaws in it.....hence all the questioners.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: ken10

You really think there was an elaborate hoax?

Anything that appears on a website called 'gaschamberhoax.com' is more than likely to be a load of fetid dingo's kidneys.

So of course you will refuse to watch them.

In which case you know not what you are arguing against.

a reply to: Stormdancer777

The second video I posted deals with the topic you mention, If you watch it you will see the video claims debunked.


Clearly not all jews that went to Treblinka perished, as the holocaust museums would have us believe.

a reply to: ken10

This has been gone over on the forum again and again, the ones denying the Holocaust are the revisionist.

The Germans kept impeccable records.

3D scanning
scanlabprojects.co.uk...

originally posted by: ken10

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: ken10

You really think there was an elaborate hoax?

No, not a hoax.....many millions of innocents died by way of atrocities, and some were jews.

But the way it is portrayed today has many flaws in it.....hence all the questioners.

"Some" were Jews? "Some"??? We have the intercepts from the Eastern Front that detail all the mass shootings committed by the Einsatzgruppen. Mass shootings of people whose only 'crime' was being Jewish. We have the plans for the death chambers, the movement orders, the eyewitnesses. All your 'questioners' tend to be anti-Semitic charlatans like David Irving or that useless little twit who tried to claim that there was no cyanide used at Auschwitz.

originally posted by: ken10

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: ken10

You really think there was an elaborate hoax?

Anything that appears on a website called 'gaschamberhoax.com' is more than likely to be a load of fetid dingo's kidneys.

So of course you will refuse to watch them.

In which case you know not what you are arguing against.

That's an easy one - the standard anti-Semitic Holocaust-denial bull excrement. Seen it, laughed at it, sneered at it, dismissed it. Remember the David Irving trial? That's what you do to Holocaust deniers.

Can't argue with peeps who refuse to look at the evidence put forth by prosecution AND defence...... that would be a "kangaroo Court".

Personally, I've seen enough to convince me the official story is very lacking, but hey, whatever people are happy living with.

originally posted by: ken10
Can't argue with peeps who refuse to look at the evidence put forth by prosecution AND defence...... that would be a "kangaroo Court".

Personally, I've seen enough to convince me the official story is very lacking, but hey, whatever people are happy living with.

(Facepalm)
This has been gone into long enough by a long line of historians. There is no 'official' story, there is only the truth. The historical truth. There isn't a single reputable historian who claims that the Holocaust didn't happen. We have too much proof. Too much evidence. There's no case to make for Holocaust deniers, other than the fact that they tend to be a filthy little bunch of anti-Semitic liars who pounce on what they see as 'inconsistencies' that don't actually exist.
This is why the Mods come down like a tonne of bricks on threads that cast doubt on the Holocaust.