Welcome to Nazi America. They just do whatever they want, without our consent. It only gets worse from here. I just got charged $100 bucks for not wearing my seatbelt, in a state where helmets aren't even required on motorcycles. This is the kind of mentality we're dealing with on all levels of government, IMO.

Originally posted by Damned
This is the kind of mentality we're dealing with on all levels of government, IMO.

Its all about absolute control. There is no room for individuality anymore.

Has not one of you looked at the title of the document?

It's from freaking 2003. Early 2003, actually. This is very, very old news.

They aren't suddenly going to 'up and pass' a 2 year old bill. This is just a draft that was referred to on an ATSNN Topic as 'The Son Of Patriot Act', and it was fought down in Congress.

Most of the important bits of it have been tagged as riders to larger bills, too small to bring down the big, "good" bills. Altogether they weave quite a nasty web, which I'd hate to be caught in.

Being in Canada, I'm still not well off, but I'm in a better situation than a lot of you.

Don't get me wrong here - I am completely against this and am well aware of the implications of this and other bills out there, but you as a group have got to shape the # up.

1) Start reading these things. Many of you do this, but when someone simply gets told "Oh they can go kill you and its ok" and the person just believes it, then idiocy and ignorance is spread. We're supposed to Deny that.

2) Make sure you know exactly what you're talking about. 90% of the posts in this thread have been along the lines of 'This is going to pass I just know it. We're all doomed, NWO!!!!!!!!' - If you'd looked at the title and realised it's almost a 2 year old bill, you'd know that this isn't something that's an up-and-comer bill.

3) Drop the conspiracy and the expectations posts. The time for 'speculating upon what the hidden arms of a masked man might be proposing as a possible future means of the destruction of any opposition it may or may not face' is over. Now is the time to intelligently and in an organised manner collectively band together, and decide upon realistic actions to take or to consider.


-- It's just a really, really sad thing to see so many people get it right by noticing the wrongs, get it right by realising that action must be taken, and then get it dead wrong by being idiots as a group. By being sensible, you could accomplish so much more than by doing what little you've done.

And, I don't mean to criticise completely - there's been some very helpful and very sensible things said in this thread, but the vast majority were just like catalysts to the stupid mob mentality that won't do anyone any good. Just, for goodness' sake, think.

Originally posted by Viendin
Has not one of you looked at the title of the document?

It's from freaking 2003. Early 2003, actually. This is very, very old news.

Um.... The bill was drafted in 2003. It wasnt released untill much later. Yes we have read it, and if you have kept up with this thread you would know that we realize this bill isnt bieng passed, but rather disected into smaller parts and tacked on to the end of other bills to be passed unnoticed.. Dont go havin a fit.

[edit on 12/18/04 by Kidfinger]

You mean the single guy who mentioned it, and your agreement?

Yeah, considering there's over 20 posters in this thread, I'd say 2 people's acknowledgment would be a general consensus and agreement that that's the state of the situation.

-- I'm talking about collectively. I did actually read through the entire thread, and over about a month almost everyone was saying "Oh no gonna pass soon I know it", not "hm, considering that this bill was drafted in 03 and we've heard little of it since, it could pop up soon. We should be on the watch for it or smaller riders containing vital pieces of it tagged into larger bills."

If people had even been saying super-dumbed down versions of the second one, it would be fine, but a bill drafted almost 2 years ago is pretty old. After the elections, Abu-Ghraib, Farenheit 9-11 and the return of the Wendy's Big Colby Bacon sandwich, a lot has changed. This bill's final form would be so different that it would barely resemble the draft anyway.

It may not pass under that name, but if they want it passed, they'll do it somehow. As mentioned, they incorporated parts of it into the Intelligence bill and snuck it right in, just as they'll do with the rest of it. If they want something passed badly enough, they'll just reword it, tack it onto another bill, and pass it in a more discrete manner. It happens all the time. You don't get a chance to stop it.

-- It's just a really, really sad thing to see so many people get it right by noticing the wrongs, get it right by realising that action must be taken, and then get it dead wrong by being idiots as a group. By being sensible, you could accomplish so much more than by doing what little you've done.

Yes!!! This is exactly what I see! These idiots aren't capable of accomplishing anything, unless they're made drastically uncomfortable very quickly. Our gov. knows this. That's why they only infringe upon our rights gradually. It goes practically unnoticed, and not enough people get mad enough to do anything about it, as long as they still have their luxury items.

[edit on 20-12-2004 by Damned]

I have been trying to find exactly who authored P2. I have found ZILCH! Nadda!Anybody have any info on this? It would be helpful to know exactly who wrote this, and how many "who's" there are.

I cant even find out who authored the Intelligence bill. All I can find is it was drafted through a legislative process. Lots of missing authors for these ought to be a clue as to what is really going on.