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Group Preparing to Press Military for Atheist Chaplain

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posted on May, 12 2014 @ 06:41 PM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

This is how I know you didn't serve in the military. Chaplains quite often give counseling and support that is very secular in nature. What sort of counseling do you imagine you need as an athiest in battle. So far I hear a lot of "I don't know but I want it anyway even though I don't know what I want."




posted on May, 12 2014 @ 06:43 PM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Yet you used that term throughout the thread until you looked up something that you thought made a point.

You still haven't been able to describe what sort if service such a person could provide that isn't already.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 06:45 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

This is how I know you didn't serve in the military.


Can I ever be forgiven?



What sort of counseling do you imagine you need as an athiest in battle.


I don't imagine I need any, since I'm NOT in battle. But there is a desire to have humanist chaplains and I'd like to support the soldiers... Also, I'd like to know what's the harm in it?



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 06:46 PM
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a reply to: DietJoke

Then why not just put a mental health professional into the foxhole? Yet another person who hasn't served, at least not in the last 15 years. Mental health professionals do indeed go everywhere chaplains go.
edit on 12-5-2014 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 06:52 PM
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"Atheist Chaplain, I'm dying! I've been a good person. Will I be justly rewarded or see my passed loved ones in an afterlife?"
"Nope. You'll just be dead."



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 06:53 PM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Right. So you are going on about something you know nothing of.

There is no need, the vast majority of service people get aided by caring and compassionate people already, believe it or not.

There is not a clamor nor are people not getting the service they need. What we have here is another PC stunt by malcontents with a lefty agenda a d honestly, we have enough on our plate to worry about serving somebody's lefty agenda.

I ask you again, what qualification and education gets you a "humanist chaplain?" Is there a humanist seminary? Or perhaps send in some box tops and get your humanist credentials.

Again, I ask, what does this provide that isn't already provided by a myriad of already dedicated and honorable people?



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 06:53 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc
You still haven't been able to describe what sort if service such a person could provide that isn't already.


You'll have to ask those who are requesting it. Sorry. I have nothing against it. I don't see the harm in supporting them if they request it.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 06:55 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc
a reply to: windword

Yes to all of the above. Methinks a lot of people weighing in didn't serve a day in the military.


Really!?

Can one walk into Chaplin's office and talk with someone without an appointment?

Yes?

And, YES, a service man or woman can just walk into a medical facility and see a psychologist without an appointment?
I don't believe that.

Are Chaplin conversations held in confidentiality?

Yes?

Are service men and women's psychological records held to same standard of confidentiality?

Yes? I don't believe that.

You're right, I've never served in the military, but I do understand red tape and the difference between what's medical, psychological and what encompasses the spiritual.

Atheists aren't anti-spirituality. They're just "anti deity", in that they don't believe in a "supreme" one. I don't believe in "god" but I believe in reincarnation.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 06:56 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Right. So you are going on about something you know nothing of.


Jesus, you're an angry sort!



There is not a clamor nor are people not getting the service they need. What we have here is another PC stunt by malcontents with a lefty agenda a d honestly, we have enough on our plate to worry about serving somebody's lefty agenda.


Oh, boo-hoo.



I ask you again, what qualification and education gets you a "humanist chaplain?" Is there a humanist seminary? Or perhaps send in some box tops and get your humanist credentials.


I'm not your research assistant. If you want to know these things, look them up.



Again, I ask, what does this provide that isn't already provided by a myriad of already dedicated and honorable people?


And again, I answer, ask the people who are asking for it. I'm sure they do know.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 06:59 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

This is how I know you didn't serve in the military. Chaplains quite often give counseling and support that is very secular in nature. What sort of counseling do you imagine you need as an athiest in battle. So far I hear a lot of "I don't know but I want it anyway even though I don't know what I want."


I can understand why you would feel as though anyone demanding a "humanist" chaplain doesn't appreciate the services provided by chaplains already positioned to do exactly what those "humanist" chaplains are supposed to do. Were I one of those chaplains, I would certainly feel shafted, thinking that all of these people had never said a word to me, seen me, heard of me, or had the slightest inkling of my existence. And yet, I'm still not good enough.

With that said, my honest impression is one of principle. They don't really want a chaplain, just like they don't really want a church or an organization dedicated solely to preaching the word of humanism and recruiting potential carrier of the name. They want to demonstrate that, "Hey, look, we can do that too!" Not a necessary point, exactly, but that's what I'm seeing here.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 07:00 PM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I'm not angry, I'm just point out a fact--that you haven't a clue.

No, you have been making statements in support if this so I asked you to qualify your support. Asking you to back up your opinion and consider the practical matters if such is not "being my research assistant" and that was just a cop out to hide the fact you have an opinion without thought on the subject.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 07:02 PM
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a reply to: AfterInfinity

I agree. It's really about making a point by a few people, not for any true need.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 07:17 PM
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Yesa reply to: windword

What you may believe does not matter because the truth of the matter to all if the above is yes. I know you believe what you do is not based on fact or experience and it may fly in the face of your mistrust and dislike for the military, but we take care of our troops the best we can. First of all its because they are us and we are them. More pragmatically, a guy who is framing out and upset and full of angst can't do the job and might unnecessarily get someone killed. In every FOB in Iraq and A-Stan we have combat stress tents (or shacks or buildings where available) where any troop can walk in, day or night, say they've got a problem and see a trained and certified REAL healthcare professional--no appointments necessary.

The confidentiality rules for mental health and the clergy are the same. Confidential unless the member is an immediate threat to himself and others. HIPPA laws apply to the military and are taken VERY seriously.

Appointments are a fact if life stateside, of course from pay to padre, except every base has immediate 24/7 access to mental health.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 07:58 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

HIPPA laws and the confidentiality that clergy enjoy are two separate issues. A person's psychological profile can be accessed and scrutinized by other personnel. It can be used for or against them in reviews for promotions, assignments and in criminal procedures.

Does a Chaplin keep written records on who they counsel, the issues discussed and an opinion, evaluation or recommendation regarding recovery or therapy?



I agree. It's really about making a point by a few people, not for any true need.


According to you and your limited Christian view.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 08:19 PM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

yes, is that stupid or what?

atheists have a religion now? or are they trying to jack the vernacular?






posted on May, 12 2014 @ 08:29 PM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: FlyersFan


5- To remind all Americans that God is the source of all rights and privileges.


Then why the hell isn't he out there taking bullets for us?


you mean, protecting everyone from getting shot?

i think He feels every bullet and if He didn't want people to get shot, people wouldn't be shooting each other!

but now, people will ask me why God wants people to get shot, oy! lol!!

i guess people wouldn't even know if they have free will if God was really in command over all of us, right?



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 08:35 PM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

Will they be Allowed in Foxholes ?



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 08:37 PM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: seeker1963
But do they believe in Freedom and the Freedom of Speech?


The only thing atheists have in common is the lack of belief in a deity. So outside that, it's impossible to say what atheists as a group believe.



Grant you, Christianity is paying the price for their religion dictating government policies for years.


True, that.



However, how is this behavior any different?


They're not dictating anything. They're asking for equal treatment.


good, ask for designation as a religion, then.

if i were the gov, i'd do it whether they want it or not.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 08:38 PM
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a reply to: windword

The first statement is flat out wrong.

So you assume that I'm a Christian because I don't automatically and mindlessly support the latest attempt at social Engineering and PC point making in the service? That rather narrow minded of you.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 08:41 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc
The thing is that the military already has secular counselors--psychiatrists, psychologists, financial, legal, family counseling, omnibudsman, and the good old fashioned "talk to your sergeant." That actually works...senior NCOs have seen it all and can provide good counsel.

In addition, chaplains are trained to and expected to listen to and advise atheists and those of all faiths and can give advise and support of a non-religious nature as well, so that's already covered too.

What we have here is what is known as "a solution in search of a problem" and is really just some real life trolling by malcontents.


from what i've heard, it's not the actual service members behind this.
it's a civilian org. atheists of america or something.




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