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Group Preparing to Press Military for Atheist Chaplain

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posted on May, 12 2014 @ 03:56 PM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: FlyersFan
That would be the military psychologist. They already have those in place.


I wasn't aware that a psychologist was trained to counsel in moral, ethical and spiritual matters.


Actually, they are. Why wouldn't a psychologist not be able to address an ethical question? How does the "label" chaplain make them only qualified to do so and how would an atheist chaplain be able to do so any better than a psychologist? There are no atheist seminaries that teach atheistic responses to moral and ethical questions. What training would they get? Pretty much what a psychologist already gets.




posted on May, 12 2014 @ 03:56 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: AfterInfinity

If that's what they think faith is all about, then they are missing the point.



I don't know if it's about faith. I sure hope not, because we have enough idiots running around pumped up and wigged out on that stuff. They oughta make it illegal along with marijuana and homelessness.

edit on 12-5-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 04:05 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

Psychology and Spirituality: One Path or Two?



There is great debate, and in many cases a sharp divide, between practitioners of psychology and those of spirituality. On one end of the spectrum, most of mainstream psychology does not concern itself with issues of consciousness and spirit and rejects what is not scientifically quantifiable. On the other end, many contemporary spiritual traditions view the psyche as an unreal construct and believe that psychological work is an indulgent reinforcement of the story of the false self.
...
Ultimately, psychology and spirituality do not need to be distinct, but it can be helpful to make distinctions between them in order to understand the primary function of each in relation to the other. We can then discover how these approaches complement and support one another, together forming a more complete approach to human understanding than either one alone can provide.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 04:16 PM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

What spirituality are athiests missing out on and what is unique about an athiests version of spirituality (although the concept is self contradictory) that keeps it from not being addressed by a traditional chaplain?

What are they missing out on that is not already covered?

Nice cut and paste but that does not imply that psycologists cannot or will not address athiests "spirituality" appropriately.

What is this this athiest spirituality exactly anyway and what special skill or understanding would an "athiest chaplain" bring to the table? How are they certified? How are they educated?
edit on 12-5-2014 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 04:21 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc
What spirituality are athiests missing out on and what is unique about an athiests version of spirituality (although the concept is self contradictory) that keeps it from not being addressed by a traditional chaplain?


Ummm... There is no God.



What are they missing out on that is not already covered?


I don't know, hon. I don't have the answers. I don't know why you think I do. I just know that if I were having spiritual issues or questions, I wouldn't want to go to a religious leader.
edit on 5/12/2014 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 04:21 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

What spirituality are athiests missing out on and what is unique about an athiests version of spirituality (although the concept is self contradictory) that keeps it from not being addressed by a traditional chaplain?

What are they missing out on that is not already covered?

Nice cut and paste but that does not imply that psycologists cannot or will not address athiests "spirituality" appropriately.

What is this this athiest spirituality exactly anyway and what special skill or understanding would an "athiest chaplain" bring to the table? How are they certified? How are they educated?


A reason to get your head blown off that doesn't involve a loving god or a blissful afterlife. Take those things out of the equation and I'm suddenly a lot less willing to screw with a foreign government for the sake of some oil.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 04:32 PM
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a reply to: AfterInfinity

And what reason would that be?



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 05:06 PM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
I wasn't aware that a psychologist was trained to counsel in moral, ethical and spiritual matters.

*dusted off my college psychology books*

Yep. Sure. It's all basic stuff and crosses over just fine. That being said, the military also gives extra training in different fields, and it would make MUCH more sense to have the psychologist deal with atheists and their issues rather than invent a new Chaplain station for them. Army psychologists are Army chaplains minus the religion. It's already something in place.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 05:12 PM
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When I was in the Army and was a chaplain assistant .... I had protestant Chaplains and Catholic chaplains and a Jewish chaplain in our office. Catholics did not have to go to the Catholic chaplain .... Protestants did not have to go to the Protestant chaplain ... ANY chaplain can deal with any soldiers issues. If a Wiccan came to our office and needed help, any of the chaplains there could help. The Wiccan might prefer a Wiccan chaplain, but the Jewish or Christian chaplain was fully capable of helping that Wiccan. If the wiccan had questions about the wiccan faith, of course he'd have to go find a wiccan chaplain. But considering that the Atheists don't have all the 'special needs' that a person of faith has, that should make it even easier for the existing chaplains to be able to deal with whatever issues come up.

Between the existing chaplains and the psychologists ... no need for 'atheist chaplains'.
I find it a silly thought.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 05:17 PM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


Ummm... There is no God.


See?

That's where you lose me!

You come out and insult those whom don't believe as you do.......

I don't believe in God either, but I sure as hell RESPECT my fellow human beings for what they believe in!

Freedom isn't a one way street! If you want respect, show others that you respect them! Otherwise we will just continue to swim around in circles until we all get flushed!

Simple concept for those whom actually respect the Constitution.......



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 05:18 PM
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originally posted by: FlyersFan
When I was in the Army and was a chaplain assistant .... I had protestant Chaplains and Catholic chaplains and a Jewish chaplain in our office. Catholics did not have to go to the Catholic chaplain .... Protestants did not have to go to the Protestant chaplain ... ANY chaplain can deal with any soldiers issues. If a Wiccan came to our office and needed help, any of the chaplains there could help. The Wiccan might prefer a Wiccan chaplain, but the Jewish or Christian chaplain was fully capable of helping that Wiccan. If the wiccan had questions about the wiccan faith, of course he'd have to go find a wiccan chaplain. But considering that the Atheists don't have all the 'special needs' that a person of faith has, that should make it even easier for the existing chaplains to be able to deal with whatever issues come up.

Between the existing chaplains and the psychologists ... no need for 'atheist chaplains'.
I find it a silly thought.


I agree...to a point. If those chaplains can make a soldier comfortable with the idea of dying without ever seeing his or her family again without mentioning God or the afterlife, then yes, I can agree with you that an atheist chaplain is unnecessary. But something tells me that those people didn't acquire the license of "chaplain" just to ignore their deity when a soldier comes around asking for advice about making peace with death. Those are exactly the circumstances for which they were trained. Soldiers are confused, desperate, and lonely because they are faced with the fact that yes, their mortality is a very real aspect of their life, and yes, that might mean they never come back. That puts you in a screwed up position in your head, one where you're kinda begging for any possible reason why you won't die on this tour. Any possible means by which to see your kids again.

So basically, when God is that chaplain's coping method, it's a little strange to expect that they won't encourage that same method in other soldiers.
edit on 12-5-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 05:23 PM
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originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


Ummm... There is no God.


See?

That's where you lose me!

You come out and insult those whom don't believe as you do.......

I don't believe in God either, but I sure as hell RESPECT my fellow human beings for what they believe in!

Freedom isn't a one way street! If you want respect, show others that you respect them! Otherwise we will just continue to swim around in circles until we all get flushed!

Simple concept for those whom actually respect the Constitution.......







It's not Benevolent's fault you asked him/her a question. Maybe you'll learn the hazards of inviting people to share their opinions. I'm hoping that you will grow to embrace it, but not everyone does.
edit on 12-5-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 05:26 PM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


Ummm... There is no God.


See?

That's where you lose me!

You come out and insult those whom don't believe as you do.......

I don't believe in God either, but I sure as hell RESPECT my fellow human beings for what they believe in!

Freedom isn't a one way street! If you want respect, show others that you respect them! Otherwise we will just continue to swim around in circles until we all get flushed!

Simple concept for those whom actually respect the Constitution.......







I might be incorrect, but what I'm seeing here is a very common mistake in any topic of considerable sensitivity: you are asking questions when you're not really ready to deal with the answers. Or maybe you were expecting a different answer. My suggestion? If you don't like it, stop asking questions.



The only question I asked was why do you insult people whom believe differently than you!!

Care to elaborate, or would you prefer to put words into my mouth?



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 05:27 PM
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originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


Ummm... There is no God.


See?

That's where you lose me!

You come out and insult those whom don't believe as you do.......


Whoa! Wait a minute. I think you misunderstood something... I was merely answering NavyDoc's question:
"what is unique about an athiests version of spirituality"?

Besides, saying, "There is no God" is no more insulting than saying, "There IS a God".



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 05:30 PM
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I'm still caught on the idea of an afterlife with no deity or deities of any kind even if that deity is in some way connected to the ultimate realization of the self.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 05:30 PM
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originally posted by: FlyersFan
Between the existing chaplains and the psychologists ... no need for 'atheist chaplains'.
I find it a silly thought.


That's OK. I find a lot of things people want to be silly. But I'm pretty sure those who want this don't find it silly.

Can I ask... What's the harm? How does it hurt anyone to have a HUMANIST chaplain on board? (The requesters are asking for a "humanist chaplain", not an "atheist" chaplain. That's FOX News and other sensationalism at work.)



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 05:31 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc
a reply to: AfterInfinity

And what reason would that be?


Territory, resources, family, public welfare, personal safety. Not necessarily in that order.
edit on 12-5-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 05:35 PM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: FlyersFan
Between the existing chaplains and the psychologists ... no need for 'atheist chaplains'.
I find it a silly thought.


That's OK. I find a lot of things people want to be silly. But I'm pretty sure those who want this don't find it silly.

Can I ask... What's the harm? How does it hurt anyone to have a HUMANIST chaplain on board? (The requesters are asking for a "humanist chaplain", not an "atheist" chaplain. That's FOX News and other sensationalism at work.)


"Humanist" is effectively "atheist". It is, by definition, working in spite of God. Not against, but in spite of. As in, if God exists, he can go piss in the wind for all they care. Living without God, because God is irrelevant.
edit on 12-5-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 05:41 PM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: NavyDoc
a reply to: AfterInfinity

And what reason would that be?


Territory, resources, family, public welfare, personal safety. Not necessarily in that order.


And those would require a chaplain how?



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 05:41 PM
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originally posted by: seeker1963

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


Ummm... There is no God.


See?

That's where you lose me!

You come out and insult those whom don't believe as you do.......

I don't believe in God either, but I sure as hell RESPECT my fellow human beings for what they believe in!

Freedom isn't a one way street! If you want respect, show others that you respect them! Otherwise we will just continue to swim around in circles until we all get flushed!

Simple concept for those whom actually respect the Constitution.......







I might be incorrect, but what I'm seeing here is a very common mistake in any topic of considerable sensitivity: you are asking questions when you're not really ready to deal with the answers. Or maybe you were expecting a different answer. My suggestion? If you don't like it, stop asking questions.



The only question I asked was why do you insult people whom believe differently than you!!

Care to elaborate, or would you prefer to put words into my mouth?


You asked a question, and you received a response. You then got upset because you didn't like the response. The response in itself was not insulting. I did not see any name calling, no derogatory comments and certainly no negativity. The only being who could possibly have been insulted has not even been proven to exist. So I really don't see the need for your ire. Perhaps you could explain to us why you are offended by the simple statement "There is no god". How is that a personally offensive statement?



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