Group Preparing to Press Military for Atheist Chaplain

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
can't we have a new one??

Why are you asking me? LOL If you're curious about it, post it. If you go about it with CURIOSITY instead of from a defensive or antagonistic position, you will probably learn a LOT about people.

when have I ever been antagonistic towards atheist view points, I seldom question them about anything, I only speak out when topics are attacking Christianity, sometimes.

More so lately.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

if one is a spiritual atheist I think a chaplain is justified, heck, who cares really?

Let the atheist have a Chaplin

a reply to: Stormdancer777

Oh, I wasn't suggesting that you had been antagonistic. Sorry if that's how it came across. I was merely suggesting the way to get positive and active responses, instead of defensive ones. Many of the religious/non-religious threads in up as a battle and I don't enjoy those at all. I was giving unsolicited advice.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
if one is a spiritual atheist I think a chaplain is justified, heck, who cares really?

Let the atheist have a Chaplin

I agree. I haven't seen a good reason not to. Especially since there are more atheists/agnostics than Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus combined (each of whom has specific chaplains).

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
I haven't seen a good reason not to..

I gave you a good reason. You rejected it.

The US Military requires chaplains to have a Masters of Divinity degree. They require this because Chaplains, no matter their religion, are for ALL the troops and have to be able to minister to everyone. The Masters of Divinity degree includes psychology and counseling.

For there to be a 'secular humanist' chaplain, or an 'atheist chaplain' ... that person would have to have a Masters of Divinity in Atheism. Obviously that's not going to happen.

The atheists and the secular humanists can go to any of the Chaplains who are already in the military for any spiritual issues that may arise or counseling needs. They can also go to the military psychologists for the same.

originally posted by: Sremmos80

originally posted by: minusinfinity

originally posted by: Sremmos80
Ya I think this is overboard.
Why would atheist need a chaplin? What are they going to talk about??

Agree with you that if they feel that need, they can just go talk to the shrink.

I wonder what their insignia would be....

The insignia hmmm....maybe the inverted chaplain insignia.

Well each religion has their own, but i am pretty sure I know what you are getting at

Off topic, but when do they get the satanist chaplain?

That would be the satanic chaplain...lol

originally posted by: FlyersFan
The atheists and the secular humanists can go to any of the Chaplains who are already in the military for any spiritual issues that may arise or counseling needs. They can also go to the military psychologists for the same.

I guess my first question is what would be the studies of nothing? The funny part is I find many "self proclaimed atheists" better read in the religion texts than most with faith, and they tend to be more fervent than a born again Christian, so what gives?

a reply to: FlyersFan

What's to stop an atheist or a humanist from getting a Master of Divinity Degree? I refer you to this excellent thread: Preachers Who Are Not Believers

Also: Military Chaplain Requirements

Educationally, you must:
Possess a baccalaureate degree of not less than 120 semester hours.
Possess a graduate degree in theological or religious studies, plus have earned at least a total of 72 semester hours in graduate work in these fields of study.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
That would be the satanic chaplain...lol

THIS PAGE is what is said in the official US Army Chaplains guidebook. It is part of the guidebook I had to have when I was a chaplain assistant. (although this page itself is a replica put out by the Church of Satan) All the religions that the US Military recognizes are in the handbook. The chaplains and chaplains assistants are supposed to know the handbook and follow the guidelines when people of different faiths come into the office and require assistance - both personal assistance and assistance for their religious rites.

This page is about the Church of Satan.

If a Satanist was to come to our office, we would have to make sure that his/her religious needs were met. That would include helping him/her find a satanic priest or a satanic group to help him/her get his/her worship in as he/she needed. Back then, that would be off post ... but nowadays there may be satanic priests serving in the military to draw from.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

They note that when soldiers seek mental health counseling it is noted in their record and reported up the chain of command. But consultations with chaplains are confidential, making them a safe place to discuss the problems soldiers routinely face — loneliness, fear, anxiety and other personal issues.

]Source

This alone is a good reason to want to see a chaplain instead of a psychologist.

Help me here....

A military Chaplin serves all. The only time their religion comes into play is Sunday or at the request of the individual. A military member can go to any Chaplin of any religion and get the same results. This means an atheist can go to any Chaplin and get the same results too.

So what would this atheist Chaplin provide, that the ones they have already do not provide?

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
What's to stop an atheist or a humanist from getting a Master of Divinity Degree?

If an atheist can get accepted to a Divinity school and can pass the school and then passes the military requirements, then . But what religious school is going to accept an atheist into their Masters of Divinity program? And what Atheist is going to put up with what they consider to be nonsense like 'Noahs Ark was real' or 'Jesus is in the Eucharist'?? If an atheist could do all that, then they'd get hired into the military as a chaplain under whatever Masters of Divinity they have ... Lutheran, Catholic, Jewish, etc. They would have that title.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
If a Satanist was to come to our office, we would have to make sure that his/her religious needs were met. That would include helping him/her find a satanic priest or a satanic group to help him/her get his/her worship in as he/she needed. Back then, that would be off post ... but nowadays there may be satanic priests serving in the military to draw from.

Not sure your point....

I was just pointing out that someone joking said "maybe they should invert the Chaplin symbol", which for Christian Chaplains it is a cross, and that is already taken......

originally posted by: Xtrozero
So what would this atheist Chaplin provide, that the ones they have already do not provide?

Why have Muslim, Buddhist and Hindu Chaplains? I'm not sure. I don't visit a chaplain and I'm not in the service, so who am I to judge what they need? But it seems reasonable that if Christians, Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus all have specific chaplains, then Humanists would, too...

originally posted by: FlyersFan
But what religious school is going to accept an atheist into their Masters of Divinity program?

Yale?

And it doesn't NEED to be a Masters of Divinity. Read the military chaplain requirements I posted in my last post.

So looking into this we have the "Humanist Celebrant", it seems the use of the term "Atheist Chaplin" is mainly just spin to push this story in some direction it need not go....

Humanist Celebrant

“Humanism is a democratic and ethical life stance, which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives. It stands for the building of a more humane society through an ethic based on human and other natural values in the spirit of reason and free inquiry through human capabilities. It is not theistic, and it does not accept supernatural views of reality."

a reply to: Xtrozero

So I was right. If humanism is not theistic, it must be atheistic. It certainly sounds like it to me. Taking control from God is about as atheist as it gets, right? But maybe it's Satanic...oh well, I'm not worried about it. As long as it's by the humans, for the humans. We ought to learn to rely on our own strength.

a reply to: Xtrozero

The original request was for a Humanist Chaplain. You're right. "Atheist Chaplain" was FOX News' spin on the deal.

Some humanists believe in a God, some don't. But they believe that God isn't necessary to be a good person. Many religions would say this is proof that they don't believe in the "right" God.

I try not to label people's beliefs, because I think that's something a person should do for themselves.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Again, as I said earlier, you present "atheist" as an untrue spin but the you present atheists outnumbering Buddhists and the like as evidence if need. Which is it? Do you switch from one to the other as convenient?

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

That's a valid point--you are not in the service so you don't know what we need. Star for that realization.

originally posted by: NavyDoc
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Again, as I said earlier, you present "atheist" as an untrue spin but the you present atheists outnumbering Buddhists and the like as evidence if need. Which is it? Do you switch from one to the other as convenient?

The term Humanist is a larger group that INCLUDES atheists.

a reply to: NavyDoc

That's right. I am not in the service. But I don't need to be to understand the desire to have someone of similar mind to talk with in times of trouble, insecurity and doubt. I'm a human being.

There's nothing "special" about being in the service, but I find many who have been, think there's something special about themselves. I don't buy it. They're people, just like the rest of us.