It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The First Estimate of the Masses of Fourth Generation Fermions

page: 1
3

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 12 2014 @ 07:38 AM
link   
The distribution of mass in the standard model of elementary particles is nearly chaotic. Some might observe that the average, which all fermions of a given generation equate to, is superior to the preceding generation; but other than this vague statement, accounting for the exact mass of all elementary particles was still an open problem in physics, let alone to predict the masses of particles yet undiscovered.

But after considering the masses of all non-virtual, elementary particles of the standard model, I had the chance to perceive a pattern. The pattern is extremely complex (it requires the combined work of no less than 8 pattern values), and the line is incredibly convoluted and sinuous to follow. But once the end pattern was found, it then became possible to extrapolate the masses of the current Standard Model beyond current observations.

Thus I submit today the very first estimate of all fermions of the fourth generation of matter. Now, if a fourth generation of matter does exist, their particles should be very short-lived, and I doubt that we will have the chance to observe a fourth matter particle any time in the near future. But I nevertheless submit my estimate now, for the discovery of a fourth matter might come in a hundred years or tomorrow.



If a fourth generation of electron is to exist, I estimate its mass to be:

10.342,319,21 GeV



If a fourth generation of up quarks is to exist, I estimate its mass to be:

16.084,638,919 TeV



If a fourth generation of down quarks is to exist, I estimate its mass to be:

170.524,217,9 GeV



May time be the judge.


At Time's End,

Swan




posted on May, 12 2014 @ 07:39 AM
link   
Of course, this is only if fourth generation particles exist. I personally think they are way too massive.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 07:41 AM
link   
Duly noted....we await your vindication....if not the detailed explanation......



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 07:47 AM
link   
a reply to: stirling

Hehe, A star for you. I've spent alot of time on this.


edit on 12-5-2014 by swanne because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 08:49 AM
link   
My prediction is that the next revolution in particle physics will NOT be the discovery of a fourth generation of quarks but clear evidence that, instead of being fundamental, quarks are composite bound states of three truly elementary, spin-1/2 fermions. According to my research, up (u) and down (d) quarks have the subquark composition:

u = X-X-Y, d = X-Y-Y,


where X has electric charge +5/9, baryon number B = 1/9 and third component of isospin T3 = +1/2 and Y has electric charge -4/9, baryon number B = 1/9 and T3 = -1/2. If this is correct, most of the mass of a quark should originate in the hypercolour internal SU(3) string bonds between its subquarks, just as most of the mass of a proton or neutron is known to come not from the rest masses of their constituent quarks but from the colour SU(3)-symmetric forces arising from the virtual gluons exchanged between them.

Evidence that quarks are composite is the asymptotic behaviour of the proton form factor F(q^2) as the magnitude of q^2 --> infinity (q is the 3-momentum transfer). At large values of q, F(q^2) varies as q^(4), which is precisely what it would do if it were composed of three point-like particles*. However, this property can be explained in other ways that keep quarks fundamental, so the evidence for composite quarks is not yet unambiguous.

If your calculations are based upon some kind of symmetry, they may still be valid despite assuming that quarks are fundamental particles. My theory rules out the existence of a fourth generation of subquark (and therefore a fourth generation of quark), so we shall have to be patient and see what experiments eventually show......

*Physics Letters 84B, number 1 (1979), pp. 133-136.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 08:54 AM
link   
a reply to: micpsi

I also have a preon model of my own (which also is skeptical about a fourth generation), it's called the Phoenix-I/II Theory; perhaps we could compare notes one day!

A start for your work.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 08:56 AM
link   
Wow I never knew we had such smart people on this site. I should get out of the dream forum more often.
I love the ideas postulated by quantum physics even if I can't do the math.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 09:06 AM
link   
The key is to produce these particles and watch them decay. The steps taken are to first accelerate particles up to a desired energy and have them collide. We produce a whole bunch of stuff and we observe tracks and decays.

The proposed 4th generation of lepton I think is ruled out based on a wealth of experimentation.

to produce it you need a centre of mass energy of about ~21 GeV

Leptons are easy to search for because their production tends to be very clean, put in double the kinetic energy and get out a particle - anti-particle pair. This is how the tau was discovered, and given we have electron - positron beams that were performing spectrum sweeps through the 20 GeV energy region, it is something that would have perhaps been observed.

Accelerators that were capable of observing this are

SPEAR (upgraded)
PETRA
PEP
SLC

Technically any accelerator using an electron-positron beam can do it. Though higher design energy beams will typically not search low energy regions, these regions will be then searched by other, smaller, fixed target experiments.

So I think a 4th generation lepton is ruled out, and was ruled out as far back as the 80s or 90s that is not to say people are not looking for it
arxiv.org...
This arxiv paper is one example i found just by dropping the phrase into google.

The search for 4th generation of quarks is also on going, but if the Standard Model is to be believed, the discovery of the higgs where it is, actually limits the existence of a forth generation of quarks. Production of higher mass fermions that would contain a 4th generation have not been observed as yet, and the existence would affect the mass of the higgs since that 4th generation would strongly couple to it.

It would be a similar affect as the charm coupling suppressing particle production at lower energy. The same would happen, existence of a forth generation at higher energy would be hinted in the data we have already, even at 16TeV.


Regardless, it is something that I don't think can be ruled out, and I don't believe we need mathematical beauty in all this. We could have a weird system where we have 3 generations of leptons but 4 of quarks.

The LHC will turn on again this year and ramp up to ~14 TeV, it would not be enough to produce those particles you 'predict' (i put it in inverted commas because if it is based on the model you posted previously then it is not clear that the model should have any predictive power at all) but it would get close and so probably produce a spectrum with hints of the coupling (if it exists)



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 09:18 AM
link   

originally posted by: ErosA433
So I think a 4th generation lepton is ruled out, and was ruled out as far back as the 80s or 90s that is not to say people are not looking for it
arxiv.org...

Indeed. This is why I posted the prediction - just in the unlikely case.


The LHC will turn on again this year and ramp up to ~14 TeV, it would not be enough to produce those particles you 'predict' (i put it in inverted commas because if it is based on the model you posted previously then it is not clear that the model should have any predictive power at all)

This is not really based on my previous works. Well, it is an upgrade from this, except now the formula is much different - it notably gained predictive power, more accuracy for known particles, and its inputs can be in any common mass units (it works no matter if you're using eV or grams). But it also gained more complexity.


Thanks for your input, and it's good to see you again BTW.


edit on 12-5-2014 by swanne because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 04:23 PM
link   

originally posted by: micpsi
My prediction is that the next revolution in particle physics will NOT be the discovery of a fourth generation of quarks but clear evidence that, instead of being fundamental, quarks are composite bound states of three truly elementary, spin-1/2 fermions.


What problems does this theory solve?



posted on Nov, 19 2014 @ 06:24 PM
link   
The new formula relating the mass of all (non-virtual) elementary particles, and predicting the mass for fourth-generation particles:



Where...

L = 03-class

e = the mass of the electron
Ve = the assumed mass of the electron neutrino
C = the particle's charge class (see Diamond Phoenix-I/II Theory), equal to 3-((√(Q2))/⅓)

G = the particle's generation

n = 8.23128
m = 0.483801084644308240686385328368
o = 0.7592848531506522298911897473307
p = 0.26971
q = 0.02046240831813501327047026905159
r = 0.21048927944196500214286397766451
s = 2.839058362754
t = 1.107756702923


edit on 19-11-2014 by swanne because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
3

log in

join