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Help solve the Mecca riddle

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posted on May, 12 2014 @ 05:06 AM
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I am almost sure that Mecca's pilgrimage area will be situated on some special focal harmonical point of the Earth. Also the Black stone's origin and resonance would give or light to what is Mecca all about. This are my starting speculations. I hope ATS members today are not overlazyed by the nice spring(in the northern hemisphere) and will help me solve this question.

Source

Researchers have noted that the Ka'bah is accurately aligned on two heavenly phenomena - the cycles of the moon and the rising of Canopus, the brightest star after Sirius.


-Bartender. The cats are curious.
edit on 12-5-2014 by Egoismyname because: fixed title




posted on May, 12 2014 @ 06:09 AM
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Are you Moslem perhaps? Trying to teach us about Islam?

Anyhow, yes, Mecca is said to be situated on a very sweet spot: Golden Ratio of the Earth




posted on May, 12 2014 @ 06:14 AM
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a reply to: Egoismyname

It is said to be at the center of the Earth. I have been doing some reading and research on Mecca/Kabaa myself. It fascinates me to see the pilgrims paying such dedicated homage to a place/object. So I am intrigued to learn and read as much as I can about it because I want to understand it.

I've read that birds circle it as well and won't fly over it ? I don't know how true this is as I've never been there.

As for the black rock they rub/touch is mysterious. Is it a meteorite ? Why do they give such importance to this object ? Does it represent the Universe ? Isn't this why they circle the Kabaa, it is a representation of our circling Universe ?

Earth rotates on its own axis in 24 hours causing day and night
The seasons are a result of earth's simultaneous revolution around the sun in 365 days
Earth rotates anti-clockwise
All objects in the universe, atoms, moon, stars, electrical current, galaxies,rotate in the same way

I am interested to read what others have to contribute.


leolady
edit on 12-5-2014 by leolady because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 06:16 AM
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yeah way cool.

things that people knew for a 10000yrs or more.

it's a rock, that they worship. it's black, also.

walk around it 7 times.

u and 2 million others.

wearing nothing but a bed sheet.

you should go. do it!

it would probably be life changing for you.

yeah the kaballah is on the grid.

who cares?



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 06:16 AM
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a reply to: Egoismyname


Researchers have noted that the Ka'bah is accurately aligned on two heavenly phenomena - the cycles of the moon and the rising of Canopus, the brightest star after Sirius.


the moon has alot of different cycles too choose from,,which one are they referring too?

also with xo many stars to choose from I'd be surprize it it wasnt aligned with one.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 06:19 AM
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a reply to: Egoismyname

the " riddle " of the black stone is a sham - if moslem authorities permited proper scientific investigation - IMHO the " riddle " would be solved



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 06:28 AM
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This ability for us to become so deeply entrained (fanaticised) even temporarily through group activity, must be a vestigial hangover from our campfire dancing days.....
Perhaps it kept us alive through cold ice age nights, or fired us up to hunt the dinosuars or large game.....
An activity where prey could be either participant....
At any rate there are too many EXAMPLES OF REASON BEING OVERCME THROUGH SUCH A MECHANISM WED PERHAPS BE BETTER OFF WITHOUT IT................



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 06:39 AM
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From what I've read, tradition says the stone used to be white and it is only black because it has been touched/rubbed and oxidized by every pilgrim who's went there for hundreds of years but apparently the stone used to look more like white marble.

And I would say that like most religious practices, the pilgrimage and worship of mecca is purely astrological in its significance, the 7 knocks etc, one for each of the Ancients seven planets or gates....



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 07:23 AM
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a reply to: Egoismyname

S&F!


Having done some quick research I have found out the following ...

Canopus


In Indian Vedic literature, the star Canopus is associated with the sage Agastya, one of the ancient rishis (the others are associated with the stars of the Big Dipper). Agastya is said to be the 'cleanser of waters' and its rising coincides with the calming of the waters of the Indian Ocean.

Canopus was not visible to the Ancient Greeks and Romans; it was, however, visible to the Ancient Egyptians, as well as the Navajo, who named it Ma’ii Bizò‘. It is also referred to by its Arabic name: سهيل (Suhail), given by Islamic scientists in the 7th Century AD.

The Bedouin people of the Negev and Sinai also knew it as Suhail, and used it and Polaris as the two principal stars for navigation at night. Due to the fact that it disappears below the horizon, it became associated with a cowardly or changeable nature, as opposed to always-visible Polaris, which was circumpolar and hence 'steadfast'.


Suhail


Suhail (also spelled Sohail or Suheyl; Arabic: سهيل‎) is an Arabic term meaning easy-going. It is commonly used as a male name and also refers to a number of stars:

It is a shortened version of the traditional names of three stars in the obsolete constellation Argo Navis:
λ Velorum, Al Suhail al Wazn
γ Velorum, Al Suhail al Muhlif or Regor
ζ Puppis, Suhail Hadar
The term has also sometimes been used in reference to Canopus (α Carinae), the second brightest star in the night sky


Argo Navis


Argo Navis is the only one of the 48 constellations listed by the 2nd century astronomer Ptolemy that is no longer officially recognized as a constellation. It was unwieldy due to its enormous size: were it still considered a single constellation, it would be the largest of all. In 1752, the French astronomer Nicolas Louis de Lacaille subdivided it into Carina (the keel, or the hull, of the ship), Puppis (the poop deck, or stern), Vela (the sails), and, according to some, Pyxis (the compass, formerly the mast).


Back to a quote on Canopus from wiki ...


Etymology and cultural significance
The name "Canopus" is a Latinisation of the Ancient Greek name Κάνωβος/"Kanôbos", recorded in Claudius Ptolemy's Almagest (c150 AD). Eratosthenes used this spelling, however Hipparchos wrote it as Κάνωπος. John Flamsteed wrote Canobus. The name has two common derivations, both listed in Richard Hinckley Allen's seminal Star Names: Their Lore and Meaning; and one less so. All are matters of conjecture:

One from the legend of the Trojan War, where the constellation Carina was once part of the now-obsolete constellation of Argo Navis, which represented the ship used by Jason and the Argonauts. The brightest star in the constellation was given the name of a ship's pilot from another Greek legend: Canopus, pilot of Menelaus' ship on his quest to retrieve Helen of Troy after she was taken by Paris.
A second from the Egyptian Coptic Kahi Nub ("Golden Earth"), which refers how Canopus would have appeared near the horizon in ancient Egypt, reddened by atmospheric extinction from that position. A ruined ancient Egyptian port named Canopus lies near the mouth of the Nile, site of the Battle of the Nile.
A third is its possible origin from the Semitic root G(C)-N-B (Gimmel-Nun-Beth), from which the Arabic word for south, janūb ( جنوب ), is derived. The southeastern wall of the Muslim Ka'bah points to Canopus, and is named Janūb ("south") as well.



Middle East
Canopus was known to the ancient Mesopotamians and given the name NUN-ki and represented the city of Eridu in the Three Stars Each Babylonian star catalogues and later MUL.APIN around 1100 BC. Today, the star Sigma Sagittarii is known by the common name Nunki.

An occasional name seen in English is Sohel, or the feminine Soheila; in Turkish is Süheyl, or the feminine Süheyla, from the Arabic name for several bright stars, سهيل suhayl, and Canopus was known as Suhel in medieval times. Alternate spellings include Suhil, Suhilon, Suheyl, Sohayl, Suhayil, Shoel, Sohil, Soheil, Sahil, Suhayeel, Sohayil, Sihel, and Sihil. An alternate name was Wazn "weight" or Haḍar "ground", possibly related to its low position near the horizon. Hence comes its name in the Alphonsine Tables, Suhel ponderosus, a Latinization of Al Suhail al Wazn. Its Greek name was revived during the Renaissance.


I tried looking up ancient muslim astronomy texts but I was only able to find this ...

Al Sufis Book Of Fixed Stars



So finally it appears that Canopus ...


Role in navigation
To anyone living in the northern hemisphere, but far enough south to see the star, it served as a southern pole star. This lasted only until magnetic compasses became common.


... Possibly serving to denote the lowest point and hence maybe a metaphor for grounding/anchoring heavens foundation on the earth.


edit on 12/5/2014 by DietJoke because: Edited to fix picture.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 07:25 AM
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If we're gonna start talking about the black stone, we'd better establish Islam tradition on it or we'll all look like fools.


The stone was venerated at the Kaaba in pre-Islamic pagan times. It was set intact into the Kaaba's wall by the Islamic prophet Muhammad in the year 605 A.D., five years before his first revelation. Since then it has been broken into a number of fragments and is now cemented into a silver frame in the side of the Kaaba. Its physical appearance is that of a fragmented dark rock, polished smooth by the hands of millions of pilgrims. Islamic tradition holds that it fell from Heaven to show Adam and Eve where to build an altar. Although it has often been described as a meteorite, this hypothesis is now uncertain.


basic wikilink

I'm sure the rock is a sham - it has pagan origins, but it's highly revered. I'd roughly equate it to being the muslim equivalent of the shroud of turin. Mysterious and a great crowd pleaser but completely unproveable as being the real deal to what it claims to be.
edit on 12-5-2014 by markosity1973 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 07:42 AM
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originally posted by: markosity1973
I'm sure the rock is a sham - it has pagan origins but it's highly revered.

Some quotes from "Why I Am Not A Muslim" by Ibn Warriq.

Page 39 -

Society in pre-Islamic Central Arabia was organized around the tribe, and each tribe had it's principal deity, which was worshipped in a fixed sanctuary even by the wandering nomads. The deity resided in a stone and was not necessarily in human form. Sometimes the sacred stone was a statue or sometimes simply a big block of rock whose shape resembled a human. The heathen Arabs evidently imagined that the block of stone that served as a fetish was pervaded by a divine power and, in its turn, exercised a divine influence.

The names of the two hills As Safa and al-Marqa signify a stone, that is, an idol. Pagans ran between the two hills in order to touch and kiss Isaf and Naila, the idols, placed there as a means of acquiring luck and good fortune.


It's also doubtful that the stone that is worshipped at Mecca is even the original meteorite.


The Black Stone itself is evidently a meteorite and undoubtedly owes its reputation to the fact it 'fell from the 'heavens'. It is doubly ironic that Muslims venerate this piece of rock as that given to Ishmael by the angel Gabriel to build the Kaaba, as it is, to quote Margoliouth, 'of doubtful genuineness, since the Black Stone was removed by the ... Qarmatioans in the fourth (Muslim) century, and restored by them after many years: it may be doubted whether the stone which they returned was the same as the stone which they removed.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 08:37 AM
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a reply to: markosity1973


You beat me to it! The rock was venerated long before the Prophet. Just as through abrogation, the Koran is repeated Judeo-Christian mythos, the stone was incorporated into the Kaaba to build support from the existing followers who believed in its power.

A little less morbid than Christianity using corpses and pieces of corpses to help spread their tales. Throw in a little mithaism, mystery cult belief, and create holidays over Pagan celebrations and whammo! Jesus is Lord.

I had heard the Adam and Eve part, but I also thought the meteorite was taken by Abraham who built the original Kaaba...



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 08:43 AM
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originally posted by: the owlbear
I also thought the meteorite was taken by Abraham who built the original Kaaba...

That's how the myth goes .. that Abraham built the Kaaba. But there is no evidence whatsoever that Abraham was near Mecca let alone that he built the Kaaba. It looks more like those who invented Islam grabbed onto the coattails of the famous Old Testament prophet Abraham in order to give validity to their new religion. ATS Thread - Did Abraham Ever Really Exist?



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 08:53 AM
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originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: the owlbear
I also thought the meteorite was taken by Abraham who built the original Kaaba...

That's how the myth goes .. that Abraham built the Kaaba. But there is no evidence whatsoever that Abraham was near Mecca let alone that he built the Kaaba. It looks more like those who invented Islam grabbed onto the coattails of the famous Old Testament prophet Abraham in order to give validity to their new religion. ATS Thread - Did Abraham Ever Really Exist?


Abrogation. It was beat into our heads in religion 417: History of Islam. It was also 217, but I wanted to do the extra work. Religion minor.
It's the principle that the Bible, NT and especially OT focusing on the Pentateuch, were accepted and embraced by the Prophet, but the Koran and his teachings were the final say. But that even split, with the followers of Ali, and those who wished for less nepotism with their religion.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 09:01 AM
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Collectively I see the pilgrimage to Mecca as a way for House of Saud to control the people to want to defend Mecca and make money on them making all muslim following the orders of House of Saud.

There can be a spiritual awakening on the personal level of a soul when doing the trip but that is between the soul and the divine. But then being spiritually awoken and having abilities in the middle east is probably very dangerous like the healers who where burnt by Catholic church during the dark ages. Spiritually blind priests normally hate to have spiritually advanced souls around them proving their blindness for all to see.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 09:09 AM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

I'm one that believes it doesnt matter if Abraham, Adam, Jesus, Lao-tse, etc.was a living breathing human who walked the earth. The Legend is always larger than the man. And if that legend can bring happiness and not desruction, it's not that important.

I have been thinking about the previous posts and the astronomical implications of the Kaaba and the moon and Canopus (or Polaris). Then it brought me to the star and crescent...which also featured prominently in Sumerian and Mithraic faiths. Much as the Cross was a mystery religion symbol long before it became the standard over the fish.
There really is little new under the sun.


edit on 12-5-2014 by the owlbear because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 09:58 AM
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Muslims are not allowed to worship idols.

But they are supposed to make a pilgrimage once during their lifetime to Mecca, walk around a square building 7 times then kiss a rock that is laid into the wall of the building.

Yet they do not view this as worship.

From IslamCan.com


Because Muslims kiss that stone, some observers hastily conclude that Muslims worship it. A kiss, however, is not an act of worship unless it is accompanied by an intention to worship. If you kiss your child, for instance, that does not mean you worship your child.


Well, we kiss our children because we love them.
IMO, loving a rock is idol worship.

ETA: If they kiss the stone as a sign of respect, well then.... they are showing respect to a rock. If they are showing respect to a rock, that must mean it is a special rock.
IMO, respecting a rock to the point of kissing it amounts to idol worship.

edit on b000000312014-05-12T10:23:03-05:0010America/ChicagoMon, 12 May 2014 10:23:03 -05001000000014 by butcherguy because: to add.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 10:34 AM
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The most valuable things on this planet are stones. Think about this.....why. Is there information stored in those stones. Location powers the stones. The frequency emitted from these stones is important. We can sense these from far away sometimes.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 10:51 AM
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Connect in context the bolded text:


Source

The Kaaba’s architecture is designed in the form of a ‘black cube’, which also symbolizes Saturn.


Source

st station (Moon), the faculty of increase and decrease; at the 2nd (Mercury), malice and cunning; at the 3rd (Venus), the illusion of desire; at the 4th (Sun), the passion for command; at the 5th (Mars), audacity and temerity; at the 6th (Jupiter), the lust for wealth; at the 7th (Saturn), the falsehood that ensnares.


Source

Saturn is the ruler of Capricorn, and is the planet of limitation and restriction. It brings structure and meaning to the world around us, and reminds us of our responsibilities and commitments.



I am asking myself what this sevenfold rounds of the pilgrims will emit and be amplified by this possibly very special stone. Will they free themselves out of the chains of mind and tyranny, or the ritual maybe is used to Hold The Social Chains so the status-quo of spirituality does not changes. If I get what this seven times round the stone means in Harmonic(hermetic) language, I will be more sure about this issue. Your thoughts welcome are, yet for fully understanding of my wonderings here, at least scroll a bit through the Sources I gave. Horse. Are I growing squirrels?


-Cats are fans of the idea that thin is the line between Enlightenment and Enslavement. But don't listen them, they watch too much movies!

edit on 12-5-2014 by Egoismyname because: Horse added. I like Horses.

edit on 12-5-2014 by Egoismyname because: Squirrels added. (don't as why)

edit on 12-5-2014 by Egoismyname because: Bunnies are coming soon...!



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 11:22 AM
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originally posted by: stirling
This ability for us to become so deeply entrained (fanaticised) even temporarily through group activity, must be a vestigial hangover from our campfire dancing days.....
Perhaps it kept us alive through cold ice age nights, or fired us up to hunt the dinosuars or large game.....
An activity where prey could be either participant....
At any rate there are too many EXAMPLES OF REASON BEING OVERCME THROUGH SUCH A MECHANISM WED PERHAPS BE BETTER OFF WITHOUT IT................


Interesting. I remember reading on one of the "we are food for the moon" threads that a man said that by coordinated, or choreographed, or maybe it was all moving the exact same way in unison, whatever the word for that is, physical body motions in unison...that by doing this, we could somehow fight against the moon or prevent it from eating us, when we die. and supposedly Madame Blavatsky got angry with him for sharing this information... and here we have people coordinating their motions in a location that is supposedly aligned with the moon...

could there be a connection between theosophy and islam? or some other occult nature?



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