Scientists induce lucid dreams

It finally happened boys&girls, lucid dreams can be induced by stimulating the brain while sleeping.

Researchers led by Ursula Voss at the J.W. Goethe University Frankfurt, used a technique called transcranial alternating current stimulation (tACS)

The gadget comprises two small boxes with electrodes that are placed next to the skull and send a very weak, low-frequency electrical signal across the brain.

After the volunteers had experienced between two and three minutes of REM sleep, the scientists applied tACS, or a "sham" procedure that produced no current, for around 30 seconds. The current was below the sensory threshold, so that the subjects did not wake up.

The volunteers were tested at frequencies of two hertz (Hz), six Hz, 12Hz, 25Hz, 60Hz and 100Hz.

"The effect... was only observed for 25 and 40Hz, both frequencies in the lower gamma frequency band," Voss said.

link to article


* Now unto the good stuff, naysayers are finally proven wrong. Lucid dreams are real and can be induced - end of all pointless discussions.

* Can we make this electric device at home? Any ATS engineers who are willing to share?

a reply to: Exitt

I wasn't aware there were naysayers when it came to lucid dreaming? I was under the impression it was commonly accepted as a fact?

But what is the point as it's still just a dream or actually a "visual fantasy" and who are the "nay sayers" i don't seem to remember people rejecting the fact that people can "control" their dreams.

I can do it in the exact moment that i fall a sleep but it usually wakes me up after a couple of minutes, and when i am in the wakeup fase by going back to sleep when i wake up, a snooze button on the alarm clock is a good tool, i can make it last for an hour or so and during that time i'm aware of that i'm dreaming.

I don't see it as anything fantastic, just nice or pleasent, and i don't see it as a "direct control" of what happens in your dream, just continuation of the dream you are in .

a reply to: Mianeye

With practice, you can gain "direct control" of your dreams and do anything and go anywhere that you please. You can stop a dream in it's tracks and conjure up something completely different once you learn to identify when you are dreaming and become confident in your ability to lucid dream.

I became quite good at it in my early 20's but unfortunately I have a sleep disorder that became more severe in my late 20's and limits my ability to achieve REM in my sleep, so I rarely dream now, and seem to have lost the ability to easily initiate lucid dreaming as a result. But when I was doing it frequently I could literally do anything I wanted to during lucid dreaming experiences. It was really quite fun, and I miss it quite a lot. Sort of like the ultimate VR experience.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

Yes i know about that and i can do that to, but i see it as being in a state where you are half awake and half sleeping, for example i can start a fantasy about something before i fall a sleep and then when falling asleep i can continue my dream in that fantasy, unfortunately it wakes me up after a while but the good thing is i can then remember it as to if i continued sleeping it will be gone.

The same goes when i dream in the wake up fase, i am half asleep and therefore aware of the dreaming which IMO is a state where am half thinking half dreaming but not a direct control of my dream, but more like by mixing reality in to dreaming, i don't really know how to explain it but i am aware of what you talk about.

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: Exitt

I wasn't aware there were naysayers when it came to lucid dreaming? I was under the impression it was commonly accepted as a fact?

There are still a LOT of non believers out there and a couple of them reside right here on ATS. If you read other threads about lucid dreaming you can spot them right away.

On the other hand it's not a big deal they feel that way, now they have the opportunity to experience lucidity themselves and learn everything there is to learn about it.

Unfortunately this gadget is being used for research only for the time being so we will have to DIY i guess.

originally posted by: Mianeye
a reply to: DeadSeraph
Yes i know about that and i can do that to, but i see it as being in a state where you are half awake and half sleeping,

I can understand your point of view but that is not lucid dreaming.
This might not be that interesting to you personally but it is extremely exciting news for many of us. It can be a life changing eye opener to inexperienced people and of course for us who have the ability to lucid dream this is a musthave toy to play with.

The article mentions it can help people with reoccurring nightmares but implications are much, much greater than that. I'm talking help with all kinds of addictions and phobias.

I had found two tricks awhile back that worked really well, I kept making crazy demons filled nightmares so I found a way to control them and it was very easy after two weeks I could gain control of almost any dreams, The thing is training your brain to think of "Am I dreaming?" randomly by reflex so that when your dreaming it will happen and it'll give you a queu that your dreaming...

#1> Draw a big "A" in your hand and every now and then as often as you can but not too often that it becomes un-natural try to think of "Am I dreaming?" and watch your hand. After awhile it'll start popping up in your mind randomly and EVERY times look at your hand and if you see the A mentally tell yourself "No I'm not dreaming"

When you'll be dreaming after awhile it will cross your mind in your dream and when you watch your hand the A won't be there and your going to get unplugged matrix style...

#2> Same as no.1 but without drawing a A... Randomly ask yourself "Am I Dreaming???" where ever you are looking at just look into a completely opposed direction for 2-3 seconds and then look back where you were looking and if everything is the same just tell yourself "No I'm not dreaming!"

It worked VERY well for me within 1 week I was "waking up" inside 9 dreams out of 10" the hardest part is to stay awake after you realize you were dreaming but the more you do it the better you get at it... Once your brain is condition to out of the blue "randomly" think to "Am I dreaming" the repetitions of that task will get automated and soon as "something changes" that'll trigger you realize something's out of place and to realize your in a dream. The cool part is for me its like the dreams were "shifting" to try to get me back into the dream and forget what I had just understood it was so weird...

For the machine said above a little gadget I found a long time ago hanging on hacking site called the "voodoo machine" was doing that jolting your brain with light currents to make you have light halucinations and so on, the same site has plans for said device and it works pretty well apparently. I won't put i here but just google "Hack Canada Voodoo Machine" This could easily be modded and adapted to perform as above.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

It is. I think where most people drop out is when people start talking about astral travel during sleep. I know I do. Most people have had instances where they controlled the direction of their dreams or knew they were dreaming.

Sorry don't want to be the spelling police but since you used the word twice I want to do you a favor. The word is phase not fase. That one word kind of distracts from your otherwise intelligent responses. Ok end spell check. P reply to: Mianeye

Stay the hell away from my brain people!!!!
I love when I can do this. Usually depends on time of the day for me. I've also been able to time travel; like searching the brain for a future memory

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
a reply to: DeadSeraph

It is. I think where most people drop out is when people start talking about astral travel during sleep. I know I do. Most people have had instances where they controlled the direction of their dreams or knew they were dreaming.

Yeah, astral travel, i'm still on the fence about that. Some people say it's the same thing as lucid dreaming but i don't know. Had some full control, crazy lucid dreams but never felt as if 'that' was the experience others have when they describe astral travel.

I do believe people are having that experience though.....do you ???

originally posted by: Exitt
originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
a reply to: DeadSeraph

I do believe people are having that experience though.....do you ???

Yes. I experience both regularly, just not at the same time. AP is not the same thing as lucid dreaming. I'll leave AP out of this thread.

To achieve lucid dreaming, I take a single drop of serotonin/dopamine essence sublingually. Caution, not for the faint of heart. Consult your health care provider before even considering its use. Trust me when I say, its definitely not for everybody.

Its cool that advances have been made to where electrical frequencies can trigger lucid dreaming. The time will likely come where on-demand programming (such as, rapid healing, psychosis-therapy, memory recall, language acquisition, Einstein thought experiments, or even post-secondary education) can be transmitted while in the REM state.

As is true with anything, we will likely fall in love with the wonderful benefits, but then society's creative misuse will likely ruin a good thing.

Sounds like it would be a world changer.

How could TPTB have their little back room meeting when someone could walk through walls and be there in the back room with them listening to them and it is on the internet by the time they get in their car.

I can fantasize

How is this going to be a positive change for the world? People going to bed early so they can play in their dreams sounds counterintuitive to me. People also play a lot of video games, with really no consequence outside of their own minds. Its merely escapism.

Lucid dreaming can also be facilitated by eating a piece of whole wheat toast with peanut butter and sprinkled with nutmeg before turning in.

And my Zen guru swears that eating popcorn with Parmesan cheese and Tabasco allows him to control his dreams.

a reply to: Exitt

I've never heard about anyone doubt lucid dreaming being legitimate.

Doesn't sound like there will be a huge market for this device other than sleep therapy type issues. It would be fun to try it out though! As someone who enjoys lucid dreaming I would be interested in it if the price is right:

Voss does not foresee a commercial market in lucid-dreaming machines. Devices currently sold "do not work well," she said in an interview, and those that deliver electrical stimulation to the brain, like the one in her study, "should always be monitored by a physician."

To Sleep, Perchance to Control Your Dreams...

There are other things on the market to assist in lucid dreaming such as a lucid dreaming mask or lucid dreaming MP3's. I like to stick to good old dream journaling, reality checks and lucid dreaming methods.

Lucid Dreaming Masks:

Lucid dream masks may help you achieve your goal of becoming lucid on a nightly basis. They provide an artificial aid to supplement your own efforts in dream recall and reality checking. Just a word of caution: no lucid dream machine is a magic bullet for lucid dreaming and won't train you to become a better natural lucid dreamer. So don't rush out to buy one until you understand exactly how they achieve results.

Lucid Dream "Machines"

originally posted by: VforVendettea
Sounds like it would be a world changer.

How could TPTB have their little back room meeting when someone could walk through walls and be there in the back room with them listening to them and it is on the internet by the time they get in their car.

I can fantasize

I believe that has been done in AP... with the exception of the publication part. This thread is about lucid dreaming.

a reply to: VforVendettea

I wanted to correct you by saying that "no this is about lucid dreaming not astral projection" but I would be wrong to do that because people can have the same experience at their instances.

On another hand, I disagree with the idea for such a device to be a 'world changer', but rather an improvement in neuroscience.
Not so much the fact that you 'can' spy on your neighbor during AP, but like any other things, in can be addictive to be aware of your dreams and not face reality at every wake. Considering the practical usefulness in relaxing and healing the mind whether its through fantasies or working out problems in our dreams.

I asked a psychiatrist about lucid dreaming once, and he believed it was real, so apparently it is not something that is taboo among the scientific community. He worked at Texas A&M. What I am wondering however is whether this means that those who say lucid dreaming can take place within the physical world are mistaken? If it can be proven that lucid dreaming is a reaction in your brain, then would that not take out the more spiritual side or whatever? Wouldn't this mean that what was being experienced WAS just a dream, no matter how realistic?

Wait, maybe I am thinking of out of body experiences. Ya, that's it. But that seems about like the same thing in many senses. Regardless, stuff like this needs to be pursued more than it seems to be. Science understands a lot about the brain, but there is still a lot left to decipher.