Scouting is an Act of War - Are your friends your enemies?

originally posted by: works4dhs
No one wants to live in a police state surrounded by snitches.

but consider this...

when there's an *event* (school shooting, Boston bombing), people immediately demand to know why-wasn't-something-done and how-could-you-let-this-happen. DHS openly opines 'If you see something, say something'. Fascitic? perhaps. But consider the incident a few weeks ago when a suspicious / concerned woman saw the kid in the storage unit and called John Law. HS student with guns and bombs; *event* prevented thanks to an aware and concerned citizen.

People like me are tasked with protecting the populace, and I'd be remiss if I didn't have my eyes and ears open.
The legit question is, to what degree can someone like me have access to your life? And that's a hard question.

People don't know what they want. You can't have both freedom and security, they're mutually exclusive concepts. Or maybe perhaps people do know what they want and America isn't the country for people that think like me any longer. A lot of this comes from ignorance of how things work. To the majority of the population if you say you'll protect them and they don't go through any extra inconvenience in their lives they consider the system to be good with no thought to the interior workings.

I realize we need to trade some security for freedom because total freedom also means no security but pre 9/11 we still had a lot of information gathering ability, we actually had so much that we got a hit on the attacks and discarded it as noise. How is adding more information gathering a solution when the whole problem was having too much in the first place?

The other thing is that it's not just law enforcement that has access to this information. A buddy of mine works at the local telcom doing customer service. He can access all data on any customers phone remotely, turn on the mic/camera and listen in on them, look at their travel history and know where they go and when, check all internet history, read their email, and more. I can understand law enforcement maybe getting this information if a warrant requires but this is the level of access available to the lowest member of an ISP.

To me the answer to your question is pretty easy. No access until after I've committed the crime. The price of prevention is too high, and I'm not a fan of precrime.

but pre 9/11 we still had a lot of information gathering ability, we actually had so much that we got a hit on the attacks and discarded it as noise. How is adding more information gathering a solution when the whole problem was having too much in the first place?

That is an excellent point however I think that had the intelligence gathering apparatus had a defining moment that it should have had with the USS Cole then they could have narrowed the information down. However, again, using the unfair advantage of hindsight to criticize individuals who make decisions under stress accomplishes nothing.

I have never like the use of reverse stings, particularly in prostitution cases, and never have been able to buy into the 'help' that these arrest-and public disclose of the arrested is supposed to bring. Statistics show that you have a one in 35 chance of getting caught up in a prostitution sting. I just don't see putting the arrested photo in the paper while giving the law enforcement community total access of this persons past and therefore placing it in the public forum-has any affect on the problem of prostitution.

The legit question is, to what degree can someone like me have access to your life? And that's a hard question.

Another good point-do you see yourself as having benefited from seeing the pictures of arrested persons along with all their personal information in a crime they are only alleged to have committed?

The counterpoint being the embarrassment of the arrest would stymie further attempts to unlawfully acquire sex services advertised on Craigslist?

This is such a tough sale when you sacrifice someones privacy for a crime they have not been convicted for? Most law enforcement is split 50-50 on this issue-particularity from the aspect of public disclosed information.

a reply to: darkbake

Darkblade...

I believe you are very correct. However, I wonder how much of these aspects have been developed purposefully for the programming of the people playing the game.

Here is an article about MMO (Massive Multi-player Online) games being run/designed by psychologists:
Most MMOs run by Psychologists...

The article has to do with repetitive behavior. There is a key to the way MANY of the online games are designed now - self-gratification being greater than teamwork. But when you build a game that relies less on cooperation and more on self-gratification you begin to tap into the paranoid and untrustworthy behaviors of human beings.

It's why I personally try to stay away from those games.

originally posted by: WCmutant
a reply to: darkbake

Darkblade...

I believe you are very correct. However, I wonder how much of these aspects have been developed purposefully for the programming of the people playing the game.

Here is an article about MMO (Massive Multi-player Online) games being run/designed by psychologists:
Most MMOs run by Psychologists...

The article has to do with repetitive behavior. There is a key to the way MANY of the online games are designed now - self-gratification being greater than teamwork. But when you build a game that relies less on cooperation and more on self-gratification you begin to tap into the paranoid and untrustworthy behaviors of human beings.

It's why I personally try to stay away from those games.

It's not just MMO's, the main idea in game design is you create a content loop, this isn't really a new idea. Basically you want someone to perform the same activity over and over, in modern game design a reward system is incorporated into the loop. In an MMO you find an NPC, kill it, gain loot/exp and continue. This is a mini loop that generates a reward. It feeds into a larger leveling system which serves as a greater reward loop. In FTP models this loop gets monetized by restricting how many times someone can do it for free. The idea is to get you addicted to the reward cycle so that you pay to experience it some more. It's the same principal that has been well documented with slot machines.

The problem with pushing teamwork is that people, especially when they're anonymous are going to act in their own self interest. It's the same problem Communism has. In Communism if everyone works together for the good of the whole society reaps massive benefits, the problem is that because there isn't individual incentive people don't perform their jobs adequetly. This is why there are individual rewards in the loot systems.

Unlike what the article implies though most game companies aren't using psychologists, only the ones at the top are. Everyone is is just copying them and actually discourage applying psychology in games. Not out of any moral reasons or anything, but rather just because most game developers are pretty bad at what they do.

If you see something, say something!

If you've observed suspicious or potential criminal activity it is your responsibility to report it to the appropriate agencies. Often there are substantial cash rewards for information that leads to arrests....

Heil.