Passing the Cost to the Consumer from a Business Owner's Perspective

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: jacobe001
Not entirely true.
The Economic Trade Policies the Government has in place brought in by lobbyists have a huge effect on what consumers have available to them in the marketplace.

Such as? There is very little that I have to go to a chain store to obtain, the overwhelming majority of my purchases and services are made at places I choose to patronize instead of being left with no option to shop there.

How about the USDA allowing chickens to be shipped to China to be processed where it can be done cheaper with questionable quality practices and cheap labor and then shipped back to us?

USDA to Allow Chickens From U.S. to Be Shipped to China for Processing and Back to U.S. for Consumption, Just Like Seafood

ecowatch.com...
www.bloomberg.com...

What could possibly go wrong.

Also, 20 years ago, the extent of Chinese Products in this country in my big city was limited to the size of a gas station along other national specialty stores. It was not the consumer that brought these in, but Corporate and Wall Street Lobbyists seeking short term profits.

Everyone one of these trade practices reduces the buying power of the consumer / worker and is an attack on small and medium sized business unless you are involved in short term profits via Wall Street. That is what is killing this country.

Our politicians are supposed to be working for the best interests of the whole country, but when Freedom of Speech is not Free but for Sale to the highest bidder, everyone but the few elite loose.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I am a lot older than you probably. My grandmother had sixteen children. She had land and opened a grocery/bait store. She was satisfied with her income and happy.

Like I said, that type of small business era is long gone.

Now it seems, small businesses goal is to become another corporation.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I fully understand that when a business cost goes up that gets passed on to the consumer and I do not begrudge them that but what worries me is let us say min wage goes up to $10.10 and the business needs to raise the price of a burger by 15 cent to cover that they will go ahead and raise it 25 cents to make a little more profit.

Gators dockside down here too such offense to AHCA they added on the receipt an extra cost labeled as such from AHCA well there was no need to make an issue of it, but so be it however they started inflating the cost and attributing it to the AHCA long before it went into affect essentially pocketing more money and profiting off the controversy which was later exposed. Such behavior makes the public very weary of business owners and their credibility when they speak about such matters. I believe he sold his business to another owner, but I wouldn't doubt if he is a silent partner.

The example and my mindset I give is in reference to smaller businesses not mega corporations. When we talk about the too big to fails where CEOs get paid in the millions I expect them for once to bite the bullet and the tax codes should be written where they pay their fair share without the loopholes. They have lobbied and taken advantage of the system for far too long.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
My type of business was not a necessity, it was an indulgence for the patron.

That sounds like a lot of fun. I agree about never going into business unless it's profitable, and the more profitable the better. That's the goal. Also with working for anyone else, you want it to be gainful.

Jobs I had that were "worth it", where I always came out on top $, were like busing tables, cleaning floors, washing dishes, etc. A job that was "barely worth it" was delivery over far too large an area in a car that needed way too much maintenance, and only the weekend was "worth it" while the weekdays were breaking even at best. A car breakdown and that was it.

Anyhow, the topics you brought up got me wondering about recent facts and figures so I went and looked: Tax figures 2013
And the NJ state one.

The tables in the first one seem sorta dry at first but if anyone is willing to look into it a little closer it's really interesting and allows us to compare and contrast how things work across the nation. It even has listed things like differences in Cig, gas, alcohol, etc. Explains a lot, and some of the taxes in there are utterly mind-blowing.

And you are right, the cost is passed straight to the consumer every time.
So while people continue to vote in representatives that continue to raise or fail to lower taxes at each level; national, state, and local, they continue to vote themselves poorer without realizing.

Obviously there are examples where things are being done right, but not in all areas at once. Every place has strengths and weaknesses. So there are sweet spots and rough patches.

The goal of responsible taxation is to both maintain necessary public works and infrastructure, while also facilitating the growth of business and the raising of the local per capita averages %. Which is a self-perpetuating process that continually increases economic activity and revenues for all parties included, even the taxing entity despite having very low rates.

Excessive taxation can destroy business, for example states with high rates nearby those with low rates will begin to see steady streams of state-crossing for that product. It's become so bad in some places that entire truckloads of illegal cigs were busted, an entire black market for a legal product formed over a few dollar tax! Seems absurd but it's happening all over the place with random things.

Important things we need to focus on:
Making sure elected reps are #1 fiscally responsible and that their goal is to bring down the costs of government itself by cutting out wasteful spending in any reasonable way possible. Maintaining and expanding what is required by society in theory only costs a fraction of what is being wasted right now, so improvements can easily be made at every turn.

By cutting the cost of government, the pressure for taxation can be relieved, and so the burden on the population can be reduced incrementally.

"Raising taxes on business" should only be used to halt excessive growth or make a business less desirable, not to make money to cover necessary gov't expenses. It's a last resort and it's self-destructive.

In the case of 'sin-taxes', it could be said they are attempting to halt the activity associated but the reality is that it just becomes twice as illegal and costly for the society overall. So using taxes to "govern morality" through economics is also not an acceptable method of taxation to cover expenses, and it approaches tyranny if it isn't already.

I can't say to vote for either party because both seem more than willing to accept new taxes as quick fixes to greater problems of wastefulness. I don't think it matters if they are R D G C whatever, if they are logical and running on a platform of cutting the cost of government itself, for the express goal of paving the way for lower tax burdens, it may be worth actually voting for them. I know we all get burned but if we don't try while having a great choice available, we will be paying big time $$$$ with our wallets.

May post more later, thanks for bringing the topic up. It's important to everyone despite many may not realize it.
Those are just my initial thoughts tonight.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I didn't really pay attention to all the costs required to maintain a business until I took my first Accounting class in college not too long ago. There's tons upon tons of expenses, and most businesses generate just a little bit of profit.

Cost of goods sold, salary, licenses, rent, utilities, etc....

a reply to: Sremmos80

Look in business, they can charge what they want for whatever services they are providing. The market works, when the consumers either pay the price or take their money elsewhere. Either by principles or cost. If people want to pay $1 dollar for something rather than $0.75 because they like the business then they will. Otherwise they will shop where it is cheaper. THAT is how things works, people can charge whatever they want for whatever they want and the consumers will determine if it is worth the money or not.

Grim

originally posted by: jacobe001
How about the USDA allowing chickens to be shipped to China to be processed where it can be done cheaper with questionable quality practices and cheap labor and then shipped back to us?

How about it? You telling me the only chickens you can find are the Chinese processed ones? Certainly not the case where I live.

Also, 20 years ago, the extent of Chinese Products in this country in my big city was limited to the size of a gas station along other national specialty stores. It was not the consumer that brought these in, but Corporate and Wall Street Lobbyists seeking short term profits.

Yeah? And it is the consumer who keeps them here by purchasing them with great frequency. Simple supply and demand. If you stop buying it the stop making it.

Everyone one of these trade practices reduces the buying power of the consumer / worker and is an attack on small and medium sized business unless you are involved in short term profits via Wall Street. That is what is killing this country.

Actually, cheap Chinese made goods increases your buying power by allowing you to stretch your dollar, that is why so many people do not care.

originally posted by: MOMof3
I am a lot older than you probably. My grandmother had sixteen children. She had land and opened a grocery/bait store. She was satisfied with her income and happy.

You did not answer my question. If your grandmother was not making enough with her store due to rising costs what would she have done?

originally posted by: Grimpachi
Gators dockside down here too such offense to AHCA they added on the receipt an extra cost labeled as such from AHCA well there was no need to make an issue of it, but so be it however they started inflating the cost and attributing it to the AHCA long before it went into affect essentially pocketing more money and profiting off the controversy which was later exposed. Such behavior makes the public very weary of business owners and their credibility when they speak about such matters. I believe he sold his business to another owner, but I wouldn't doubt if he is a silent partner.

And you as the end user have the right to not patronize such an establishment which is why the free market works in my opinion. A business like that is not an essential, it is a luxury and if the consumer does not like how they operate they can take their hard earned money elsewhere.

originally posted by: buni11687
I didn't really pay attention to all the costs required to maintain a business until I took my first Accounting class in college not too long ago. There's tons upon tons of expenses, and most businesses generate just a little bit of profit.

There are quite a few and you, as the business owner, are expected to know all of them. Quarterly business taxes? Estimated sales tax? Yup, more hidden taxes that the consumer has to pay.

I remember a conversation I had with a women paying her bill who was obviously from out of state.

She asked, "Why are you charging me tax on my food?"

I replied, "I am not charging you tax, the State of New Jersey is charging you tax. They only ask us to collect it."

originally posted by: muzzleflash
By cutting the cost of government, the pressure for taxation can be relieved, and so the burden on the population can be reduced incrementally.

That is the crux of the matter. Government needs to be funded and business do not fund the government, the citizens do.

It is just a matter of the collection method. Direct on your income tax or indirect when you go shopping. You are getting hit on both ends.

It really would make it easier to run a business if the employees which rely on a paycheck from the business managed their personal affairs as carefully as the business owner has to manage theirs in order to make sure they get their paycheck on a regular and timely basis.

Better still, if the government and the people at large managed their personal and business affairs better, to make the business owner who happens to be sandwiched between two groups who seem to have so little common sense, more able to pay out to those who do little or nothing without hitting their customers to make up the difference.

Do tell, why are so many businesses being automated?, pesky whining humans with no common sense getting sick all of the time, bumping their cars into one another, falling down and failing to plan ahead at all and looking for someone to blame, or falling prey to the more shady services out there offered by businesses which claim to be there to help them out of their predicament.

A different business and government model is in order, but how do you influence change when those who pull the strings want things to stay as they are?.

Evolution?...Mankind is the only animal on this planet which by his very nature adamantly refuses to do so.

Anyway....

a reply to: ketsuko

Who said we are?

Perhaps you missed this thread:
The Terrible Fear of Paying the Poor Too Much

Read it, and "think carefully about it." You are mistaken.

Evolution....

Agent Smith said...

Smith:

denoting a person who is skilled in creating something with a specified material.

I know it was just a movie, a story, fictional, but in order to get a message out to the masses, the message frequently has to be obscured.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

This is a pretty good snapshot into the mind of a liberal. People employed by the small business owner should all be paid a "livable wage". Whatever "they" determine that is from day to day. Even the people who don't work should be given a minimum income (min-come). But the evil greedy business owner should not even make a profit!

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

If you cannot make enough money in your business to keep it going, it is a failed business. If my grandmother had to raise her prices so much that her customers could not afford it, that is a failed business.

I have read your posts and I don't like the type of businessman you are. You threaten and expect the customer to carry the burden of all costs and failures.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

 

I receive a notice from my landlord; your Common Area Maintenance charges have gone up due to the heavy snowfall this past winter, please remit $X thousand dollars.

I receive a notice from my insurance; 'Due to escalating costs associated with insuring establishments with liquor licenses please see revised calendar year 20XX policy with adjusted premiums. Please remit $X thousand dollars.'

I receive an invoice from a supplier; 'Please be advised that effective X 1st that all products will be increasing 4%, additionally the fuel surcharge of 2% is still in place on all orders shipped by our vehicles. Thank you.'



 

This here. These are my main concerns.
Heavy snowfall? Escalating costs insuring liquor licenses? Unstable (inflation) prices? Everything always seems to be arbitrarily going up! Why should costs associated with liquor licences escalate? A liquor licence is a liquor licence, except when it's permitted by governments that want to impose as much complication and variants (so they can charge you more).

And heavy snowfall? They'll raise your charges for that, but do they drop them on years when there's low snowfall?


No. It just seems that everything is going up. Arbitrary vague reasons, backed by equally arbitrary laws. Laws which often lack a basis in reality, are unarguable and are only there to make the higher ups rich. Makes me sick. Males me regret being a member of this miserable society/ species.

(Edit for spelling error).

originally posted by: MOMof3
If you cannot make enough money in your business to keep it going, it is a failed business.

I did make enough to keep my businesses going and sold them for a profit.

If my grandmother had to raise her prices so much that her customers could not afford it, that is a failed business.

No one said to raise them to where your customers could not afford them, that would be a poor business decision. You still did not answer my question. How do you handle rising business costs?

I have read your posts and I don't like the type of businessman you are. You threaten and expect the customer to carry the burden of all costs and failures.

I am sorry that reality offends you so much but this is how every successful business operates. They provide a product or service that people want and charge what the market will bear. When costs escalate they are borne by the consumer. Your grandmother ran her business the same way despite what you may think.

originally posted by: RedEyes619
Why should costs associated with liquor licences escalate?

My insurance provider claimed it was due to lawsuit payouts on drunk driving accidents. See what they did? Their cost of business went u and the passed it through to you.

And heavy snowfall? They'll raise your charges for that, but do they drop them on years when there's low snowfall?

Never.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

An economy will actually collapse if businesses fail to pass costs on to consumers. Look at Venezuela as an example. Businesses are dropping left, right, and center as government levies so many burdens on businesses that when they increase costs to stay in business, nobody can afford their products.

Its quite a shocker to me that almost no Democrats grasp such a simple concept. Businesses pass their costs along to their consumers and then tack on a profit margin. Corporate taxes is no exception.

Democrats have many BUTS to add to satisfy their emotional need to feel that corporate taxes somehow help their cuase. Sure businesses pass their costs on to consumers, "BUT corporate tax comes out of profits". Yes, BUT, those profits are higher than otherwise because the company raised their costs to raise profits ahead of the taxes. For every BUT there is that makes it appear the tax is not being passed along, there is a BUT that makes sure it is. For example, if I'm making a profit of $100 a week, then a 50% tax comes along to make the profit $50 a week, my profits initially drop. So my response is to charge higher costs enough to earn an extra $100 per week. So my initial profits rise to become $200 but after-tax profits are left at the same $100 I started with, plus possibly more because I'd also want additional sales as a growing business and also competition is more difficult so more as a result of that.

The problem is while the concept is simple, the way it works is often complex. The risk-return decision is the core driver of business and one of the ultimate trump cards in passing costs along to consumers as is required for an economy that won't collapse. If a business has less profit because of taxation, your return goes down. Therefore competitors are less likely to enter the business and drive down profits. The other ultimate trump card is the black market. When the risk-return decision makes it lucrative to simply ignore tax laws, then businesses doing exactly that will spring up.

Taking a person's money without their permission is stealing. Corporate taxes is taking a person's money without their permission. People should be arrested for theft if they attempt to participate in corporate tax collection. A government based on stealing is a government destined to fail. The United States is destined to fail.