REAL COST of OBAMACARE given to me by the Insurance Company!

a reply to: whyamIhere

And wealth redistribution! Taking from those that can pay a BIT (whatever that means) more and giving to those that could care less about working because they get free phones, insurance, food, shelter assistance, and cash FREE from the LEFT government.

originally posted by: spirit_horse
a reply to: whyamIhere

And wealth redistribution! Taking from those that can pay a BIT (whatever that means) more and giving to those that could care less about working because they get free phones, insurance, food, shelter assistance, and cash FREE from the LEFT government.

Yes...

Because you decide to pay your bills and scratch and save every penny.

Now, you have too much so you must pay for the guy that has never worked.

These people go to unbelievable lengths to try and tell us how good the ACA is.

I suspect they are making money off the ACA. That's the only reason they shovel this crap.

originally posted by: spirit_horse
a reply to: Indigo5

That chart is what the insurance company themselves put out! I only took a screen shot of it and put it out there.

Okay...Not your BS, you are only guilty of BS distribution without critical thought? Is that the plea?

originally posted by: spirit_horse
The insurance company themselves are putting this out there and showing the comparisons. Ask yourself why they would do that? They must think it shows the changes from before and after.

Or they thought that fevered ideologues already opposed to Obamacare wouldn't bother to engage their thinking centers' and look up the most basic of facts surrounding the plans they compared?

originally posted by: spirit_horse
As a male, I don't need birth control, pregnancy coverage, and the like. So, a policy that would have been what they show, is now loaded with BS I don't need and has driven costs up not down. Not to mention the things not covered now, like pain management.

Not sure what you are trying to say? Or how it is relevant? They compared the lowest option plan with a plan you'd expect a Goldman Sachs executive to have? Even amongst what you try to explain above, one plan had a 15,000 annual deductible and the other plan had ZERO deductible...You do understand what that means?

originally posted by: spirit_horse
So, let me get this right...the insurance company which was involved in pushing this law are now putting out propaganda? LOL! What BS!

Technically you are...since I have not seen the excerpt you provided anywhere else or validated through the ever vigilant right wing media that is quick to share such news...Again...I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

I did however find one of the letters that Florida Blue sent out to it's low-end Policy holders to transition them to Obamacare policies...and apparently it states a cost of $169.66 and doesn't mention the Ferrari/Zero Deductable plan that you tried to pawn off.

Maybe share more of the letter you claim to have received? Only the one line would include your name or identifying account numbers? Let's go ahead and dig into the truth here? OK?

Cuz the FACTS and direct links I have provided show that the BS you provided is BS...now you claim it was Blue Care Florida that BSed...Please show more of the letter and let's figure out who is responsible for the now indisputable BS.

a reply to: Indigo5

Not a problem. As soon as I get to the house I will put the whole thing here for you to look at. I am at work now. I did not look up the individual plans. The insurance company sent these documents along with the contract. So, they showed plans comparing the two to before and after. Which politician or insurance company do you work for?

a reply to: Indigo5

just out of curiosity, how did you happen to get information on the plans in question?

i ask, because when i go to their site, i can't seem to get enough to determine...well, anything

the bluecare 806 plan no longer exists, and the 1491P plan appears to be a platinum-level plan....but it's possible that's all they were willing to offer him, giving his myriad existing conditions.

how did you come to the conclusion that this is all B.S.?

originally posted by: Daedalus
incorrect. as another poster pointed out, Hill-Burton was set up to handle that sort of thing. it's basically a hospital's "charity care" program....i've made use of the service myself. it doesn't cover everything, but it absolutely covers the hospital's part of the overall bill.

That other member failed to tell you that not everyone qualifies for "charity care". You should definitely educate yourself.

apprisehealthinsights.com...
en.wikipedia.org...

Charity care is only partially paid for by TAX PAYERS, and what is not paid for contributes to a hospital's debt, and causes them to have to do cost-shifting, and increase healthcare costs for us all. Not only does charity care increase our taxes, but it increases our healthcare costs too.

Thank you for proving me correct when you said "it doesn't cover everything". Which is right, and cost-shifting covers the rest.

a reply to: WeAre0ne

did you miss the part where i said "i've made use of the service myself"?

i'm well aware of what it covers, and what it doesn't, and what exactly hill-burton is and does...i actually read up on stuff i want to talk about, so i don't look like an idiot. i'm not going off what someone else told me. if you follow my posts, you know i'm smarter than that.

and i didn't prove you right at all...

when i said it doesn't cover everything, i was referring to the separate bills that come from the E.R. doc, and the lab that runs the bloodwork. charity care covers 100% of the hospital's bill. and the money for that comes from the community, whether it's state or municipal investments, and charitable donations from private entities, and corporate, or small businesses.

and the requirements for charity care are such that it's REALLY easy to qualify...so long as you're sufficiently screwed. a big block of people who wouldn't qualify would be illegal immigrants...if that's who you're referring to, then yeah, you'd be right...

and you keep talking about "cost shifting"...it's nonsense. it's all about greed.

medical services have ALWAYS cost too much...100 bucks for a generic tylenol, a battery of unnecessary tests EVERY time you come in...i don't need 3 vials of blood drawn, for a bunch of tests, when all that happened was a cut my hand open with an x-acto knife....i need stitches, a tetanus shot, and scripts for some antibiotics, and maybe a painkiller of some sort

unnecessary tests, and excessive prices for things is why the cost of medical services is so high, and even if cost shifting is a factor, it wouldn't be necessary if they didn't intentionally jack up the bill with stuff you don't need..

originally posted by: Daedalus
a reply to: Indigo5

just out of curiosity, how did you happen to get information on the plans in question?

i ask, because when i go to their site, i can't seem to get enough to determine...well, anything

I googled the plan names and numbers in the OPs Picture ...links to the plans in my post here.
Indigo5

originally posted by: Daedalus

the bluecare 806 plan no longer exists, and the 1491P plan appears to be a platinum-level plan....but it's possible that's all they were willing to offer him, giving his myriad existing conditions.

how did you come to the conclusion that this is all B.S.?

Whatever his myriad of conditions...and I think he explained he had NONE?...that would not effect deductible.

otherwise they have plans that have full/same coverage at various deductibles (what you are on the hook for each year)

The two plans he showed for comparison were one bare bones with a 15,000 dollar annual deductible...WOW ...compared to a ZERO deductible and 0% Co-Insurance...essentially never pay a dime for anything again..

It was egregious BS, whoever is responsible.

originally posted by: spirit_horse
a reply to: Indigo5

Not a problem. As soon as I get to the house I will put the whole thing here for you to look at. I am at work now. I did not look up the individual plans. The insurance company sent these documents along with the contract. So, they showed plans comparing the two to before and after. Which politician or insurance company do you work for?

Your story seems to be changing?

"So, they showed plans comparing the two to before and after."

If that was the case you would have shown 4 plans for comparison??? The Two before and after Obamacare???

That is NOT what you claimed in your OP.

See..I suspect your insurance company showed the cheapest plan and the most expensive plan...and what the prices would be for each before and after Obamacare?

4 plans, 4 prices, before and after for the two you showed.

And what you did was edit to show the Cheapest plan before Obamacare and the most expensive plan After Obamacare and pass the price difference off as "due to" Obamacare"?

And suggesting that anyone that gives sh*& about the facts is a political operative means you must live on BS mountain.

Whatever ideology tries to feed me BS, assumes I am too dumb to notice...and EVERYONE, left and right, should be offended when they are fed BS.

originally posted by: Indigo5
Whatever his myriad of conditions...and I think he explained he had NONE?...that would not effect deductible.

otherwise they have plans that have full/same coverage at various deductibles (what you are on the hook for each year)

The two plans he showed for comparison were one bare bones with a 15,000 dollar annual deductible...WOW ...compared to a ZERO deductible and 0% Co-Insurance...essentially never pay a dime for anything again..

It was egregious BS, whoever is responsible.

he's got chronic pain stemming from previous serious injuries. he's got metal bits in him....blood pressure issues....he's got problems....i was paying attention.

also, 860 had a 5k deductible, not 15k..

and even the 1491p wasn't quite "never pay a time for anything again"....that characterization was a bit disingenuous...

i think the real question is why did the insurance company choose those two plans for comparison...there HAS to be a reason. until we know what that reason is, any further speculation on our part(yours and mine) would be an inadvisable waste of time, as it will get us nowhere, and provide no substantive advancement of the discussion....

Here is a copy of the document sent to me with the contract in full. Link Below.
It is 4 pages long. I have not read the whole thing, but I want to put it up for full disclosure of the whole document since there has been concerns about the data.

PDF Copy of Consumer Notice from BCBS

a reply to: Daedalus

Neither one of those was my plan. I had a silver plan. This is a consumer notice sent with the contract that BCBS sent out to me after I signed up. My plan was $367/mo. and I had a $1,500 deductible. That is just for one person, myself. And it does not cover pain management nor weight loss programs. That information is in my policy documents so far. The insurance company made the comparison not me. I just put a screen shot of it in the OP. All of the documents were sent on a USB drive with their logo on it which is cool because I can use the drive now.

a reply to: Indigo5

I do have a couple issues. High BP and a bunch of reconstructive surgery from multiple broken bones to a GSW. 23 major surgeries over 2 years. However, they never asked about any of my previous conditions. Maybe since they are covered anyway now it doesn't matter. I don't have any bits of metal or anything like that. The GSW was a 12ga. 00 Mag. Buckshot which has 13 steel balls in each one. They were able to recover them amazingly enough. Now, the only issues I have are High BP and chronic severe pain that I live with every waking moment.

However, I have pain management that I pay cash for meds and doc. I pay cash for my family doc too. My total outlay for healthcare each year is right around $5,000. Here's the rub. I can't afford pain management and insurance. I see my pain doc 4x a year and my family doc 2x a year. I get prescriptions for the duration and pay cash for meds which is $160/mo. Now, the Obamacare insurance does not pay for pain management (a pre-existing condition) and as such does nothing for me. I don't spend enough at the family doc to cover any deductible. I will be staying with the option I have had. I don't have a choice if they are going to let things be not covered which is not what we were told.


And according to Obama himself, we won't have catastrophic policies after this year. He ALLOWED (the king changing laws whenever it is politically expedient) the catastrophic policies to be reissued this year 2014, but many states and insurance companies themselves said they are not reissuing policies from before Obamacare. So even a catastrophic plan is not available to cover the potential of something serious.
I did not have insurance when I got shot either. When I woke up from the 2 trauma surgeries the next day I was magically on Medicaid. The hospital got my information from family. A lady came by to let me know that under the circumstances they can put you on Medicaid. I never knew that before I was shot. Our Level I Trauma Hospital has many many GSW's come through all the time. About 3/4 of those are low income inner city crime victims. So, a majority of them are put on Medicaid if they don't have insurance through other means.

a reply to: Indigo5

There was 2 plans that they compared not 4.

You need to get you asshat attitude under control. I could care absolutely less what you have to say.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

The only thing I disagree with is that it has to be fixed and can't be scrapped. It most assuredly can be scrapped.

If the gov were to scrap this law the healthcare companies would continue to provide insurance for the plans they have for the term of those plans. They would then begin resurrecting old policies or creating new ones which people could procure if they didn't have insurance or they met a condition of their terms which would allow them to switch plans.

The actuarial tables are all done and have been done for decades. They would just begin using them again to develop the plans for the target demographics. There would be no period without insurance. It would just go back to how it was and this would be a bump in the road.

Now, while I think this situation is bad, I also don't like the way it was. Perhaps in another thread we can discuss how healthcare can, or should, be done. Doesn't matter if there is obamacare or not, health insurance is a scam no matter how you look at it. Health"care" in the US sucks no matter your carrier.

originally posted by: Indigo5
Okay...Not your BS, you are only guilty of BS distribution without critical thought? Is that the plea?

Except you ignore back on page 2 I proved it was true, not BS.

Or they thought that fevered ideologues already opposed to Obamacare wouldn't bother to engage their thinking centers' and look up the most basic of facts surrounding the plans they compared?

Actually it's Obamacare supporters such as yourself. Did YOU look and see what comparable plans cost?

Not sure what you are trying to say? Or how it is relevant? They compared the lowest option plan with a plan you'd expect a Goldman Sachs executive to have? Even amongst what you try to explain above, one plan had a 15,000 annual deductible and the other plan had ZERO deductible...You do understand what that means?

So then when you compared comparable plans what did you get? Oh, you didn't do it ....?

I did however find one of the letters that Florida Blue sent out to it's low-end Policy holders to transition them to Obamacare policies...and apparently it states a cost of $169.66 and doesn't mention the Ferrari/Zero Deductable plan that you tried to pawn off.



Maybe share more of the letter you claim to have received? Only the one line would include your name or identifying account numbers? Let's go ahead and dig into the truth here? OK?



Cuz the FACTS and direct links I have provided show that the BS you provided is BS...now you claim it was Blue Care Florida that BSed...Please show more of the letter and let's figure out who is responsible for the now indisputable BS.

Here are the Facts.

As has been pointed out .. the plan listed as after Obamacare is a much better plan. So I did some digging and found some comparable plans.

For Male in the 30+ bracket ... Compare to $195 in the OP's plan.

BlueCare HMO Everyday Health 1498 $300
BlueOptions Predictable Cost 1423 $350
BlueOptions Everyday Health 1431 $330
BlueCare HMO Predictable Cost 1490 $320

The Bronze plans averaged about $275

So a similar plan is $1500 a year more expensive, and the cheapest plans are about $1000 more a year. The worst plan possible is $220, still $300 more a year .. and that is the lowest plan offered.

BlueSelect Essential (HSA) 1452 $210 per month and $6250 deductible and you pay 100% out of pocket on EVERYTHING.
BlueSelect Essential (HSA) 1463 $220 per month and you get 30% AFTER deductible and basically zero help on anything.

What plan is $169? There isn't one on their website, I checked. Now who is distributing BS? You're a hypocrite.

a reply to: spirit_horse

one thing i noticed...on each of the 4 pages, it compares a different policy to the bluecare 860

a reply to: Daedalus

I don't know why the insurance company put this out as they did. Someone in the company must think the plans, although are not the same, are what happened to the plans after they had to add all of the required things to be covered. In other words, they don't have a plan now that is like the bluecare 860. So, the effect of Obamacare on the plans is what they are showing. The problem the supporters have is they don't want to see the price increase across the board on insurance caused by Obamacare because they have been defending that insurance plans would be $2,500 cheaper per family, and of course the rest of the claims which turned out to be lies.

One thing I have seen with the left in general is that when confronted with facts they can't deny or get around by blasting you with unrelated data, lying, etc. is that they start name calling i.e., racist, elitist, whatever, and attack the messenger in a bid to derail or obfuscate the subject of discussion. I don't need to put examples out because anyone with clear thinking ability can see for themselves, even right here on ATS and some would say in this thread. However, the basic fact is still the same.

In the discussion on Obamacare, the facts are the prices have doubled and more in many circumstances, with deductibles raised so you will have a hard time benefiting from the policy for a majority of the very people that were told it would go down, i.e. the working middle class and families (Your premiums will go down $2,500 per year). In all fairness, there have been a minority that saved on their premiums, but often the deductible was raised substantially making it hard to be useful for people that are basically healthy. It is some of the obscure changes in the policy that people may not even know about as they currently don't require those services.

I am lucky that I had insurance when I originally broke my back. The initial phases of services (surgery, rehabilitation, follow up services associated with rehab and pain management) were covered back then. I have been in a maintenance phase for pain management which means it is a simple visit to make sure I am alive and nothing has gone haywire and getting my meds. I say that because the rehab and initial pain management was in the $100,000's range. Now I am into it for a little less than $5,000 a year. I don't know what is going to happen with regard to people who find they need pain management in the future if not covering it is left to stand. They will be in a severely serious fix. The first couple of years, sometimes 4 or 5 in pain management require many more services. MRI's, Blood and Urine tests to make sure the liver and kidneys are functioning normally, physical therapy, and so much more that will fall under pain management is quite costly indeed. All I need to do is have blood tests 2x a year and and EKG. I also have drug tests by UA every visit to make sure I am taking the meds and nothing else.

I am fortunate and have been surprised at the cash prices I get. For example:

-EKG $23 at the local cardiologist office

-Drug test $40.00 for the instant test in the office.

-The test at the lab is $400.00 every visit , but I get free as part of the deal the doc made with his lab service provider. He told me they make enough off insured patients that his cash patients get it free. That is a good doc.

-Office visit is $90 for PM (anesthesiologist) and $65 for my family doc.

-For blood work (CBC with differential) it runs about $50

So, costs are not that much for me. I would gladly buy a catastrophic plan to cover any problems like heart attack or stroke, or something like that requiring hospitalization and surgery, etc. However, the PPACA took care of making sure those plans are DOA. They basically want me to work to pay $367/mo. for something that will not benefit me at all now and into the foreseeable future. Basically just give away $367/mo.

A very large number of middle class workers are living paycheck to paycheck. They can't afford it either, and they certainly can't save money for retirement or whatever giving away that much every month. My retirement would be fat if I was able to put that much into it every month (especially if I was a young buck)! The law is going to cover the poorest people, but at the cost of leaving many of the working tax payers uninsured. That is not the group you want to be uninsured.

And as far as Obama saying people should get rid of their cell phone or cable bill to pay the insurance premiums. That is true and huge BS! I work for what I have and the quality of life including what I desire to do with my my money. If I need a cell phone for business and other needs and have cable tv, I F'in work for that. The government already takes way too much money out of fruits of our own labor. Maybe if they quit wasting so much of our frigging money, they could afford the insurance out of the $1.7 Trillion in tax money the rake in every year. And Obama and the Dems want to raise taxes another $1.2 Trillion. The federal government is wasting huge amounts of cash. They could have expanded medicaid for those 30 million or so people that needed insurance instead of wrecking the economy and healthcare through the PPACA.

And single payer is a terrible idea! If you had the federal government taking taxes out of everyone's paycheck to pay for healthcare, they would take more and more money each year and make all kinds of claims about how much health care is costing the government regardless of what it is costing. And the bureaucracy that would be required to run it would also grow into a behemoth like all government agencies do. Only this one would be a bottomless pit. We need to look no further than the current entitlement programs they run to see that it would sink the ship. Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, etc. They all are extremely expensive and the politicians have looted Social Security to a point it is bankrupt. I watched a documentary on TV about Social Security. They went to the SS Agency and they had this one floor that was nothing but filing cabinets. In those cabinets are IOU's from Congress. They said that the SSA would for the first time be cashing in the IOU's because the money is running out. So, how are they going to cover up the looting of the SSA by the federal government. Hmmm...maybe another $1.2 Trillion in taxes. And with this administration, they are the perfect ones to cover up the biggest boondoggle of a program the government turned it into by taking the funds for other spending. I can only imagine what it has been spent on.

Anyway, go ahead keep pushing the federal government to run healthcare leftists. And when the country completely crumbles and your waiting in a bread line for 6 hours, don't say I didn't warn you. Heck, even Russian President Putin warned the US of moving toward Socialism because it doesn't work period! Every one is a money pit and healthcare, while almost free in some cases, is nowhere near what a person expects of the system here in the US. A poster put a link to a story in this thread on Socialized Medicine. It was a good read. Take the incentive out of being a doctor, nurse, etc. or even everyday workers and the whole system will slow down as it circles the drain. Some people want to see America collapse. I am not one of those people.

originally posted by: Daedalus
also, 860 had a 5k deductible, not 15k..

Correct, my mistake.
860
has a $5,000 deductible,
$10,000 for family,
$15,000 Out of pocket maximum,
$1,500 deductible for Pharmacy,
$35 co-pay for GP Office visits and $65 for specialists visits.
ER visit - $500 co-payment etc. etc.

1491P
has a $0 Deductible fro individual
and $0 Deductible for family
a $2k out of pocket maximum
$0-$10 Co-pay on drugs
$10 Co-Pay for GP Visit, $20 for specialist
ER Visit - $75 co-payment, waived if admitted


www.bcbsfl.com...
consumerdirect.bcbsfl.com...

* Now assuming you understand the ins and outs of insurance ...do these plans look comparable in benefits and costs?

Because what was done here was to pretend these two plans are "apples to apples" and cost the same and show the cheapest plan with the before "Before" Obamacare tag and the most expensive plan with the "after" tag.

And the letter, whilst definitely skewed to argue against healthcare and position themselves to jack up rates..included much language explaining that the plans were different in benefits and costs etc, but the OP failed to include the same in this Forum.

Just bottom lining it...there is no use debating folks who start arguing that the BS involved in that premise of "apples to apples" before and after Obamacare is correct.

Ya Know what else is interesting...
The letter claims 1491P (Ferrari Plan) will cost AFTER Obamacare..
Ages 21-29 $347
Ages 30-54 $466
Ages 55-64 $888

Well..we no longer need to speculate?

What are the costs of Blue Care Florida 1491p now that Obamacare has passed?
Ages 21-27 $280.29 (abt 87 dollars less per month...abt a 1,000 less per year than claimed)
Ages 27-30 $293
ages 30-40 $318
ages 40-50 $358
ages 50-60 $500
Ages 60+ $760
data.healthcare.gov...

So there we have claims and reality...

What about this OP is NOT BS?

Honestly...all personal feeling aside of whether I am an "asshat" or not...does anyone respect themselves enough to seek facts and truth regardless of ideology?

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Daedalus
also, 860 had a 5k deductible, not 15k..

Correct, my mistake.
860
has a $5,000 deductible,
$10,000 for family,
$15,000 Out of pocket maximum,
$1,500 deductible for Pharmacy,
$35 co-pay for GP Office visits and $65 for specialists visits.
ER visit - $500 co-payment etc. etc.

1491P
has a $0 Deductible fro individual
and $0 Deductible for family
a $2k out of pocket maximum
$0-$10 Co-pay on drugs
$10 Co-Pay for GP Visit, $20 for specialist
ER Visit - $75 co-payment, waived if admitted




Ya Know what else is interesting...
The letter claims 1491P (Ferrari Plan) will cost AFTER Obamacare..
Ages 21-29 $347
Ages 30-54 $466
Ages 55-64 $888

Well..we no longer need to speculate?

What are the costs of Blue Care Florida 1491p now that Obamacare has passed?
Ages 21-27 $280.29 (abt 87 dollars less per month...abt a 1,000 less per year than claimed)
Ages 27-30 $293
ages 30-40 $318
ages 40-50 $358
ages 50-60 $500
Ages 60+ $760
data.healthcare.gov...

So there we have claims and reality...

What about this OP is NOT BS?

Honestly...all personal feeling aside of whether I am an "asshat" or not...does anyone respect themselves enough to seek facts and truth regardless of ideology?

Age 60+, is that per month payments?

What 60+ year-old has an income that high they can pay that much a month?

What family can afford to send their kids to the doctor that many times to meet that deductible? That's extraordinarily high, so to meet that deductible, they are going to either have to give birth every year to meet it, have a very sick child or medical prices are going to have to go up, so they can meet it.

Yes, having one baby a year will meet that deductible. Having a very sick child will meet that deductible. Raising medical care costs will meet that deductible. So which is the most reasonable thing that you think people should do?

Have more kids they can't take care of financially, end up in the welfare system, being put on Medicaid? Sounds like a good plan to the government, just get more people on Medicaid.

Having a sick child? Who wants their child to be sick just to meet a deductible?

Raising the cost of medical care? That's what is going to happen because the deductible has to be met somehow.

I have a chronic illness that requires medical care and even with my condition, I wouldn't meet that deductible in a year. But look at the cost of the premium vs. deductible, there is a massive gap.

It doesn't matter if the cost of the premium is low, if the deductible is too high. That means even if you can afford the premium, you still have to pay out of pocket until you meet the deductible. That means that if you break your leg and the cost is only $4,000 to fix it, but your deductible is $5,000, then you pay the $4,000 out of pocket, usually monthly, until it is paid off, and you will be paying that along with the continued payments for the premium.

Where is the win-win in that? There is none.