10 May 2014 Another Anti-BLM protest-- ATV's versus Native American Archaeology Sites in Utah

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posted on May, 10 2014 @ 03:04 PM
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ATV Riders in Southern Utah Prepare to Protest by Breaking the Law


San Juan County Commissioner Phil Lyman is spearheading the protest. He plans to lead riders about a mile and a half onto a trail in Recapture Canyon currently closed to ATVs. The ride is a violation of the law. "It's only breaking the law from a federal standpoint," said Lyman. "From a county standpoint, this is a county road."

The group plans to protest what Lyman calls an overreach on the part of the federal government. The Federal Bureau of Land Management banned motorized vehicles in 2007 in the canyon to protect archaeological artifacts left behind thousands of years ago.


Seven years ago, the BLM closed this particular trail to motorized traffic because the previous year, it was found that ATV riders made a new spur trail straight through a Native American burial site.
Now, San Juan County, Utah Commissioner Phil Lyman, spurred on by the Bundy protests has come up with this publicity stunt. He has even managed to pull in Cliven Bundy's son Ryan Bundy, and the head of his private militia security team, Ryan Payne.

Ryan Payne spoke with the San Juan County Sheriff, Rick Eldridge, who has their back:

Payne characterized their discussion, saying Eldridge has contacted other sheriff’s departments who “stated that if he needed support to get the BLM out of there, they would help.”

source

I agree with one of the comment posters on Commissioner Lyman's facebook page, Mark Kile:

Your plan to ride ATVs through known archaeological sites is reprehensible. While you declare this ride in the name of freedom, in fact it is a freedom limited to a small percentage of the public with only their self-interest in mind. The resources within this canyon bear witness to cultural groups that have inhabited the area far longer than the focus group you are representing and should be left undisturbed. While I can agree with the premise of free access to travel on public lands you must keep in mind that there is a delicate balance where your freedom, will and desire does not impinge on my freedom, will and desire. That balance is known as law and regardless of whether you agree or disagree, it is how we as a people have elected to live in this country in a mutual contract, so while you espouse that you are protesting against an unfair government ruling, you are in fact unilaterally denying any private citizen that disagrees with your position and abides by that contract a say in the matter.

(bolding by me)
This same sentiment can be equally used in the Bundy situation.

For it's part, the BLM has this to say about the Recapture Canyon ATV protest.

“We regret that the illegal ATV ride planned for tomorrow appears to be going forward. Recapture Canyon is public land belonging to all Americans and contains ancient cultural sites and artifacts that are at serious risk of being destroyed or damaged.”

fox13now.com...

The Bureau of Land Management is warning riders to stay out, vowing prosecution against those who ignore a law put in place after an illegal trail was found that cuts through ruins that are nearly 2,000 years old.

But further down in the same news article...

The agency will, however, document people who ride ATVs on the prohibited trail, he said.

www.lasvegassun.com...

So, is the sovereignty/anti-federal government movement spreading, or is this just the same voices trying to squeeze another few minutes of limelight out of the Bundy stand-off?


image source
edit on 5/10/2014 by Olivine because: (no reason given)
edit on 5/10/2014 by Olivine because: add a visual aid




posted on May, 10 2014 @ 03:25 PM
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a reply to: Olivine

It is a pretty weak attempt by this group to try and ride the tails of Bundy simply because people are anti-BLM at the moment. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. The Recapture Canyon riders are completely in the wrong, whereas, I think Bundy's stance is a little more solid. One wants joyriding for personal pleasure, the other wants to protect his livelihood. Big difference.

Where I'm from, ATVing and snowmobiling are heavily regulated and been that way for years by the state. The state has developed trails for both and some places are simply off limits for conservation purposes. ATVs will literally tear # up, so the efforts make a lot of sense. The state has escalating penalties for when people get caught, eventually they'll take your property along with the fines that go with it. I see no difference with what the BLM is trying to do.

The Canyon riders seem like some selfish punks. Their stance is similar to wanting to hunt whatever and wherever they want, whenever they want. They damn near wiped out the buffalo with that attitude. Sometimes a little regulation is called for lest some jerks, and they always do, ruin it for the rest of us. Ever hear the saying "This is why we can't have nice things."

I would have to side with the BLM on this.



posted on May, 10 2014 @ 03:26 PM
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So, is the sovereignty/anti-federal government movement spreading, or is this just the same voices trying to squeeze another few minutes of limelight out of the Bundy stand-off? - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...


Probably a little of both... Many are not happy with the perceived overreach by the EPA and BLM... Everyone concerned should realize there are consequences for their actions no matter how it turns out.



posted on May, 10 2014 @ 03:28 PM
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i agreed with what bundy was doing, and i still think he's in the right....i don't agree with this.

there's a huge difference between cows eating grass, and wanting to off-road all over a native burial site.

i'm surprised the bureau of indian affairs hasn't piped up...or maybe the leaders of whatever tribe is native to that area...

this ain't cool.



posted on May, 10 2014 @ 03:53 PM
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a reply to: Olivine

While they are at it, they should burn their trash in the desert to protest the EPA.



posted on May, 10 2014 @ 04:33 PM
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It sounds like these riders have shat for brains. Either that or we are seeing a war between spirits playing out before our eyes. It is my belief and rock writings seem to back this up but this is the second go around of our time line. The losers in the last one were sent back in time to this area to get them out of the way of the winners coming back to do it all again and these native lands are up for grabs in the overall aspect of things. I have a hard time casting judgement on either side because of my visons from the past. However descrating the very grounds that may hold clues to what i believe seems to be very telling. I am against the blm epa ssa using guns to push their agenda but we do have many legitimitly armed agencies that can legally deal with the matter.
edit on 10-5-2014 by deadeyedick because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 10 2014 @ 04:41 PM
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I tend to lean towards the BLM on this. Probably thousands of acres to ride in Utah but BLM says stay off this area and thats where they want to go.

I did make myself laugh after reading this part in the first qoute in the OP...
The Federal Bureau of Land Management banned motorized vehicles in 2007 in the canyon to protect archaeological artifacts left behind thousands of years ago.

Just thought to myself if they were left there thousands of years ago its obvious they dont want them...

That was before the quote that says it is a burial site



posted on May, 10 2014 @ 04:46 PM
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originally posted by: Daedalus
and wanting to off-road all over a native burial site.


Oh man ... that's wrong on many levels. It's disrespectful, not to mention its seriously bad karmic hit back for those who would do such a thing. I know lots of folks don't believe in that, but I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of what those Native American spirits have in store for people who ATV over their burial site.



posted on May, 10 2014 @ 05:06 PM
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originally posted by: dfens

It is a pretty weak attempt by this group to try and ride the tails of Bundy simply because people are anti-BLM at the moment. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

I agree.
Reading this Los Angeles Times article, it sounds like this ride was planned by Commissioner Lyman before the Bundy Ranch standoff took place.
When he addressed the crowd before the ride this morning, he wanted to only ride in 1-1/2 miles (to the non-motorized boundary), but was "pushed" by Ammon Bundy and others to press deeper into the canyon.

I get the feeling that the Bundy clan doesn't have much respect for the land in question--they just respond to the anti-BLM cattle calls.

“We’ve made our protest by gathering right here,” he said. “I feel no moral hesitancy to cross over into the federally controlled area, but the last thing I want to see is violence. Recapture Canyon is not about conflict.”

That’s when one of Cliven Bundy's sons, Aamon Bundy, and several of his followers shouted out that the ride must go on to make a statement. “Let’s go down into that canyon,” he said. “That’s why we came here.”

And further

But Lyman, dressed in jeans and an untucked blue dress shirt, still wasn’t convinced. Then Bundy made him mad. He said the politician was speaking “the language of weakness.”

“We are not speaking the language of weakness,” he shot back. "You are outsiders. I know the people here. There’s no language of weakness here.”


I'm so glad to read many of the replies in this thread supporting the importance of protecting our nation's cultural artifacts. Thanks for all the comments.


One more linked article detailing the ride. Salt Lake Tribune



posted on May, 10 2014 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Daedalus
and wanting to off-road all over a native burial site.


Oh man ... that's wrong on many levels. It's disrespectful, not to mention its seriously bad karmic hit back for those who would do such a thing. I know lots of folks don't believe in that, but I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of what those Native American spirits have in store for people who ATV over their burial site.


I agree with you!

However!!!!

Remember when the Bundy thing started????

We were fed the bull that it was because of an endangered desert turtle!! Then we found out that was a lie, and then the MSM changed and twisted the story to a different angle.

How do we know this isn't more of the same ole tricks?



posted on May, 10 2014 @ 05:12 PM
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a reply to: seeker1963

you make a fair point....i believe this issue demands additional scrutiny.....for validation, of course..



posted on May, 10 2014 @ 05:22 PM
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If they do this I think a load of Native Americans should get horsies and ride up and down the local white man graveyard see how they like it lol.



posted on May, 10 2014 @ 05:30 PM
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a reply to: boymonkey74

Usually the American Indians are very vocal about things like this.

I haven't heard anything from them that this so called story is even true at the moment.

Let's keep some clear heads and if this is in FACT true, it shouldn't take very long for it to come out.

As most of us know, we can't always believe what the propaganda driven MSM tells us?

Two wrongs don't make a right, and pointing fingers does nothing more than allow those whom control our lives to keep more control!




posted on May, 10 2014 @ 05:56 PM
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Here is my contribution I left on his FB page.


Really Phil Lyman ? This is a little extreme.. If the BLM is really trying to "protect" the land as they claim . And their is no shady backdoor deals going on for the land. Than what's wrong with that? I fully supported Clive Bundy ,however I can't support this protest . unless you can provide proof that the BLM is NOT trying to protect a peace of American history? . if you're doing this as a political stunt , with all due respect sir . you deserve to have your ass kicked .. Just saying..



posted on May, 10 2014 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: seeker1963
Your skeptism is well founded seeker1963. We've all seen news stories twisted to push a viewpoint.

Here are a few sources--I've tried to spread them from varying slanted sources.

From the AP via ABC news:

Recapture Canyon is home to dwellings, artifacts and burials left behind by Ancestral Puebloans as many as 2,000 years ago before they mysteriously vanished.


Denver Post May 4th

The Navajo Nation isn't happy about ATVs rolling through the artifact-rich area where Navajos currently hunt, hold ceremonies, and gather wild roots, berries and medicinal herbs.



Tribal groups dismayed by Recapture ATV protest

The tribe claims an ancestral affiliation with the prehistoric Puebloans, who built cliff dwellings and kivas and buried their dead in Recapture Canyon between A.D. 750 and 1150.


edit on 5/10/2014 by Olivine because: changed link to title of article



posted on May, 10 2014 @ 06:57 PM
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a reply to: Olivine

My cousin has a friend with ATV's who looted graves in that area for years!!
I am considering reporting him to authorities...
He had three book cases of pottery...in 1998...who knows now.



posted on May, 10 2014 @ 06:59 PM
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a reply to: Olivine

I thank you for your kind reply and actually educating me more on the Utah matter!


In that case, if it involves a burial site, it should be sacred ground, just as a cemetery would be!

I might come off like an ass sometimes but when someone shows me where I am mistaken I always appreciate it!



Watch this Ryan Payne guy closely though!

He is IMO opinion an agent provocateur that is trying to make those wanting to stand against our government look bad!
edit on 10-5-2014 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2014 @ 07:55 AM
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It's a trap. They Want them to ATV across the ancient native American burial ground in a ceremonial procession, thus placing a very nasty curse on the whole of the Truth movement...



posted on May, 11 2014 @ 09:49 PM
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The problem is getting worthless sites off the list.

In calif we have a number of site that are still closed and have been checked by collage archaeological teams and found to be worthless sites or not even to be real sites.

Many of the claims of archaeological sites are based on hearsay or just plain things like one spear point or arrow head.

Many of the archaeological sites were listed by BLM archaeologists that wanted more money or more job security so they listed anything and everything.
They also listed small sites and to hide the location restricted a very large area around them that had nothing.
Many of these BLM employes are treehuggers and would love to close the whole country but will use the restrictions they can get by cheating.

I know of a case where a mining company wanted to open a mine.
the BLM found a rare and endangered cactus.
When the mining company found a ring around the cactus of a different type dirt showing the cactus had been transplanted the BLM denied knowing anything about the transplanting.
But it still took years for the company to get permits.



posted on May, 13 2014 @ 08:46 AM
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a reply to: ANNED

Everybody has a right to mine from what I've read. You file it with the BLM. They actually let you.link


The Act of 1872 also set the price for land assumed under the mining act:


FORTY-SECOND CONGRESS. Sess. II Ch. 152. 1872. 95 approved July ninth, eighteen hundred and seventy) a patent shall issue for the placer-claim, including such vein or lode, upon the payment of five dollars per acre such vein or lode claim, and twenty-five feet of surface on each side thereof. The reminder of the placer-claim, or any placer-claim not embracing any vein or lode claim, shall be paid for at the rate of two dollars and fifty cents per acre, together with all costs of proceedings
It set the price of the land claim to range $2.50 to $5.00 per acre. This price set by law has remained the same since 1872.


Many excuses can be made as to how you use the land. Just use the proper channels.





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