Study: Some E-Cigs Put Out Tobacco-Like Levels of Carcinogens

a reply to: nrd101

I absolutely agree with you it's propaganda crap, they have already said that in 2016 they will all be banned and only obtainable from your doctor on prescription so it's basically fear mongering to convince us it' has to be from big pharma it's all about the money not our health, I'll continue to smoke and vape thanks

apoligys for my horrid spelling and punctuation and what not befor i even get started

ima go on a whim hear abit and say they cited tank not rdas witch are normaly made from cheap plastic made in china ... i cant stress this enough dont buy ur tanks from china ... and dont mix harsh juice with anything plastic example cin

another one stop useing pg based luiquid yes yes it makes it fell like ur smoking but the same effect can be had bye upping the nicotine levels and taking smaller hits

i myself use rdas with my own custome build mod on a 0.01 coil and vape 24-36 mg with 100% pure organic cottion for a wick and as organic as u can get all vg juice its not even that expensive i pay 16 bucks for 50 ml organic vg luiquid my mod cost me 30 bucks to build and my rda can be had for under 30 once u have a setup like that u control almost everything except the juice

the juice being everything tho as far as how bad it can be

i went from dipping to vaping very little effect on my lungs

and everyone iv ever met is jelly of my setup they spend upwards of 300 on there setup but yet mine is far more effective

as a warning do not i repeat absolutaly do not under any condition use a 0.01 ohm coil unless u are dead f******* shure of what ur doing but there is no reasion a 1 ohm coil cant suit ur means

as far as volt mods go i cant say i like they idea they push things that are not ment to be pushed take a cheap clero put it at 5-6v and the plastic made in china will put off some nasty chems

will a ban come maby i wouldent doubt it prepare urself learn to make juice learn to make mods they can ban ecigs all they want but they cant stop me i can make juice i can build a mod and atomizer at homedepo

originally posted by: PlanetxIsComing
a reply to: nrd101

I absolutely agree with you it's propaganda crap, they have already said that in 2016 they will all be banned and only obtainable from your doctor on prescription so it's basically fear mongering to convince us it' has to be from big pharma it's all about the money not our health, I'll continue to smoke and vape thanks

Who has said this? In which country? I really can't see there being a blanket ban, in fact some big companies are starting to step into the scene due to the money flying around in it...

The peer reviewed study will be out may 15th, so I guess we'll see what they did then. But I mean it was an e-cig manufacturer doing one of the studies.

And what is so bad about the results anyway? They proved e-cigs have a LOT less carcinogens that ciggys, this is great no? It proves what we have been saying! e-cigs are BETTER for us...

I posted this as a heads up, basically the hotter you vape, the more carcinogens you release, it makes sense to me... Now people can better chose how they vape, that is all... I love vaping!!!

a reply to: markovian

Great post and great info, thank you... Now I'd just like to add don't you think scientific studies will be great for us to better adapt our vaping? Like just seeing what products release what chems, what temp is good, what wick is good etc... How can you know this without doing a scientific study? That is to say using equipment to monitor the vape, to analyse what is actually coming out.

I think it will be great to have this done, we need to do these experiments, well I guess we don't NEED to, but it will only benefit us vapers in my opinion.

But learning how to make these things is always a good thing!

EDIT: You know what, I think this would be great to do in universities etc, they could get hold the needed equipment and it would be a pretty easy fun experiment to do, they can experiment with different materials until they reach the optimal setup right? That is what I would like to see done.


EDIT2: Or how about this, maybe a group of vapers such as us chip in and buy the equipment we need and then compare the products out there now so that consumers can make more informed decisions, having a type of watchdog like that could be really great for the community! And I reckon those investing in such a thing could make great money from advertising and they would have manufacturers wanting to have their products tested by said group to show that their products are safe, which will raise standards across the board!

We can test the chinese products and if they prove more carcinogenic we can lambast them publicly and inform people with facts and evidence.

oh and a quick google will show formaldehyde comes off some plastic when heated i canot find anything to sugest pg can breakdown into formaldahide but vg can break down into acrolein a toxic smoke at 150-250 c witch is far above vaping temps considering if u inhaled anything at 150c ud know it

Vapers, we need to unite! I mean if we conducted our own experiments then we can counter any BS studies that come out to the contrary, why can't we do it? What would we need? How would we go about such an endeavor?

I guess we need a devise that can "sniff" the vape and then give us a readout of what is in it. Does such a thing exist? Would it be like the devises car emisions are tested with?

You could make youtube videos showing your experiments and doing the reviews and such, you can put advertising on there for revenue. I know that if there were such a thing I would want to watch and get that info and I would be very greatful to whoever did it.

id love to see studies ... hate to say it even some regulation ... flat out ban china ecigs the groupe of vapors i know and talk to avoid anything that had to do with china and the tank or juice batteries mechs mods fine none of us touch plasic tanks we dont need a study to tell u things made in slaveshops for nothing but profit and no care on who uses them are a bad thing

we also have known for a long time anything made of plastic when vaping is a bad thing buy a full metal rda learn to make coils its really simple and that juice u get from whatever shop unless its a vapeshop that makes there own is probly from china

china exports juice to us bye the truckload and iv yet to hear anything but bad switching to organic all vg was a crazzy change when i do long vape seshions now i dont fell like ima pass out

originally posted by: markovian
oh and a quick google will show formaldehyde comes off some plastic when heated i canot find anything to sugest pg can breakdown into formaldahide but vg can break down into acrolein a toxic smoke at 150-250 c witch is far above vaping temps considering if u inhaled anything at 150c ud know it

Well I am not so sure how plastic would be heated in these tanks though, the plastic is nowhere near the atomizer and there is plenty of juice in between, for the plastic to heat up all the juice in between would nee to be heated considerably and it would take a long time no? Relatively I mean.

Maybe the plastic can leach into the juice though? That is possible no? Or maybe the plastic has some reaction to some ingredient in the juice, to find out the answers to these questions we need scientific studies. We can't just guess this stuff now can we? Wouldn't it be better to have evidence to back up what we say?

a reply to: Meee32

we could yes wouldent be as hard as u think would anyone consider it valid maby

make a colection device dosent have to be complex the vapor once cooled will become luiquid again
send the luiquid to a lab for testing its far simpler than ud think but studies like that are never considered valid

a reply to: Meee32

As a former smoker, this is something that did concern me when these things became increasingly common. I thought about it all for a while and I decided to just quit everything and not risk these things either.

The truth is, while there are many people here who will want to defend e-Cigs, none of them really know what risks come with them. When they first started to appear there were absolutely no controls on how they were made or where they came from. Some dirty dealer in a Chinese back alley could be putting all kinds of trash in them and you wouldn't have any clue. Who's to say that using those might not be more damaging to health than smoking was to begin with?

Even now, even when these things are being monitored, checked and their components analyzed, there are always going to be risks associated to everything you consume. A drug deemed safe now can be found to cause all kinds of things in ten years. These things are really no different.

The truth is, everything you put into your body is a risk to your health, even the environments you occupy at any given time are a risk. Spraying air freshener in a closed room is a risk. Squirting cleaning agents on a worktop is a risk. Drinking from plastic bottles is a risk. Even eating an innocent carrot is a risk! Inhaling things through an e-Cig is going to be a risk.

The only way to decrease the risks to health is to limit the things you put into your body and take all reasonable measures to control the things you are exposed to. That's ultimately why I decided to quit smoking and not replace it with anything.

originally posted by: markovian
id love to see studies ... hate to say it even some regulation ... flat out ban china ecigs the groupe of vapors i know and talk to avoid anything that had to do with china and the tank or juice batteries mechs mods fine none of us touch plasic tanks we dont need a study to tell u things made in slaveshops for nothing but profit and no care on who uses them are a bad thing

we also have known for a long time anything made of plastic when vaping is a bad thing buy a full metal rda learn to make coils its really simple and that juice u get from whatever shop unless its a vapeshop that makes there own is probly from china

china exports juice to us bye the truckload and iv yet to hear anything but bad switching to organic all vg was a crazzy change when i do long vape seshions now i dont fell like ima pass out

Yeah maybe but we can't know for sure until we fully study all this, then we can say look, we tested this china product and it was found to contain this, this and this... Maybe we don't find anything and it is all gravy. It IS possible... There is only one way to know for sure.

However, yes, I agree, glass is most likely to be a much better option and historically speaking china make products have less stringent testing.

I will also check out the juice you recommend, I typically buy what is cheap to be honest. I mean man I used to smoke ciggys than contain all sorts of crap so anything I do will be better than that! haha... So I am not overly concerned, but yeah fine tuning and finding out scientifically what is good and what is not is what I would love to see... Couldn't we pay some company to do these tests for us? Or ask universities or do something like that? Perhaps if we provide the products to be tested to the uni? So you know send in your gismo that you created and have it tested? Would be epic, there must be science labs that offer such a service?

originally posted by: markovian
a reply to: Meee32

we could yes wouldent be as hard as u think would anyone consider it valid maby

make a colection device dosent have to be complex the vapor once cooled will become luiquid again
send the luiquid to a lab for testing its far simpler than ud think but studies like that are never considered valid

Why? It sounds like the way forward to me, we can film what we do... Have the viles of collected liquid labeled and sealed and then shipped off for testing... We can submit our findings to peer reviewed journals. Let them go over it. This is how it should be done no?

If it is that simple let's have a go, it could be fun!

a reply to: Meee32

this really depends on alot of things well start with leatching yes indeed infact there are juices that can melt the plastic

the heat thing u got mods and maby not the tank filled with juice gets hot but the tip and top shure can at what point the plastic will turn into toxic chems i have no idea they did point out however that as the volts went up so did the toxins due to plastic idk i really cant find anything on phemaldehyde comeing from the ingrediants in juice complared to it being well know to be in plastic to for now ill stick to it being plastic untell it can be proven otherwise ...
on a side note if it was from heat on the jucie 1/2 the vapors i know including myself would be dead

we all push the limits to the point we know when we push to far and what burning and not vaping is like
i can literaly light my mod on fire within 4 seconds we and many others like us vape at theas high temps

a combo of the 2 or any sutch can be a bad thing how they managed to get it in there test tho i can only imagin its the plastic breaking down vg or pg from heat to any form on anything thats not a rda or running really high volts is beond me

for that matter id like to see test on the hardware defective devices ... intenional over volting things like that ring bells to me i can probly melt one of there carts or cleros with a expermental setupo i have that pushes 12v at 160 amps

vaping is all about balance go to far in one dicection and i bet i could show u some bad things

produce to much vapor and well look up cloud chasing ull see people struggling to breath to win a stupid competition

originally posted by: Rocker2013
a reply to: Meee32

As a former smoker, this is something that did concern me when these things became increasingly common. I thought about it all for a while and I decided to just quit everything and not risk these things either.

The truth is, while there are many people here who will want to defend e-Cigs, none of them really know what risks come with them. When they first started to appear there were absolutely no controls on how they were made or where they came from. Some dirty dealer in a Chinese back alley could be putting all kinds of trash in them and you wouldn't have any clue. Who's to say that using those might not be more damaging to health than smoking was to begin with?

Even now, even when these things are being monitored, checked and their components analyzed, there are always going to be risks associated to everything you consume. A drug deemed safe now can be found to cause all kinds of things in ten years. These things are really no different.

The truth is, everything you put into your body is a risk to your health, even the environments you occupy at any given time are a risk. Spraying air freshener in a closed room is a risk. Squirting cleaning agents on a worktop is a risk. Drinking from plastic bottles is a risk. Even eating an innocent carrot is a risk! Inhaling things through an e-Cig is going to be a risk.

The only way to decrease the risks to health is to limit the things you put into your body and take all reasonable measures to control the things you are exposed to. That's ultimately why I decided to quit smoking and not replace it with anything.

Yeah sure I absolutely agree with your take on risk assessment, I use similar logic to anything that is proposed to be banned for being too dangerous or bad for us, including things like heroin... It doesn't matter what it is, people sky dive! It is a risk, people get in a formula 1 car and it is a risk, people horse race, canoeing, walking down the street etc... Everything is a risk and it is down to each individual to do their own risk assessment. Nothing should be banned because it is risky, else EVERYTHING risky should be banned lol... Otherwise it is just hypocrisy...

Good for you for choosing to quit it all, my partner did the same, she went onto an e-cig and within about a week she came off that and now smokes neither.

For me I like it, I just want to limit my risk now.

But you are right, how do we know what is in these things, it needs to be tested so that we can answer the questions. I think as time goes on it will be. I'm not too worried though to be honest, I think you would struggle to find something worse that chuggin on a ciggy wih all it's chems and tar etc lol

a reply to: Meee32

it really is that simple myself i think it be discredited just the fact every study included a plastic part cartos are coted in plastic inside and out if u have ever taken a carto apart ud trow them all away and never use them again its got rubber and plastiv litteraly touching the wire that gets hot ... now my mind is turning

looking at my clearo theres a rubber cap on it bet u that sucker gets hot im looking at a iclear 15 to be exact

now back on to the testing idea if u where to do the test one thing to remeber is u exhale phemaldehyde i may have the chemical confused hear but i belive its true ... a long talk is inorder to my bologist brother ... who dosent work in bioligy or id be asking a favor ... he drills wells dont ask me why but he loves it

im shure exopeshaly on the vapor form where all of us sub ohmers hang out they could build a colection device

originally posted by: markovian
a reply to: Meee32

this really depends on alot of things well start with leatching yes indeed infact there are juices that can melt the plastic

the heat thing u got mods and maby not the tank filled with juice gets hot but the tip and top shure can at what point the plastic will turn into toxic chems i have no idea they did point out however that as the volts went up so did the toxins due to plastic idk i really cant find anything on phemaldehyde comeing from the ingrediants in juice complared to it being well know to be in plastic to for now ill stick to it being plastic untell it can be proven otherwise ...
on a side note if it was from heat on the jucie 1/2 the vapors i know including myself would be dead

we all push the limits to the point we know when we push to far and what burning and not vaping is like
i can literaly light my mod on fire within 4 seconds we and many others like us vape at theas high temps

a combo of the 2 or any sutch can be a bad thing how they managed to get it in there test tho i can only imagin its the plastic breaking down vg or pg from heat to any form on anything thats not a rda or running really high volts is beond me

for that matter id like to see test on the hardware defective devices ... intenional over volting things like that ring bells to me i can probly melt one of there carts or cleros with a expermental setupo i have that pushes 12v at 160 amps

vaping is all about balance go to far in one dicection and i bet i could show u some bad things

produce to much vapor and well look up cloud chasing ull see people struggling to breath to win a stupid competition

Hmmm I doubt you would die just like that from it to be honest, look how long a ciggy takes to kill you... Dripping even only produces that comparable to a normal ciggy and that could produce more heat than your 12v beast depending on how you have that setup... Like if the element is constantly being cooled by juice ie, you have a tank full and the wick is soaked, it could stay cooler than if you drip and the element dries out, you get me? Maybe there is even differences depending on what metal you use for the element? All these variables need testing so we can get the best e-cig we can.

But yes I totally agree, if you turned it up it could heat up the metal near the top and thus heat the plastic. Again we'll have to wait till may the 15th to see the study in more detail ourselves. I look forward to that.

I really don't get why we need really high volts to be honest, 3.2 on mine produces plenty of vape, and I smoked a lot before and like to have a good amount of vape. But with that said people should be able to choose whatever they like. I'm glad that we can have this discussion, it will only benefit us in the long run and gets good info out there like you have provided.

how u know whats in them is bye not simply taking something as fact lol

idk if i can post a organic juice site on hear probly not just type in organic vg juice on the old google and within 3 sites ull have it

its a good start maby nor perfect even they could be fake from china

as much as i hate the idea of regulation im on the fence hear will it help or hurt i have no idea drive the price up to where its to cost prohibitive ... (wow i spelled that on my own lol )

on a side not wouldent our own ecig sub form be nice ... its a place where i could do more than read and have relitive inpute hahaha otherwise i just read would love to post some build and all that

originally posted by: markovian
a reply to: Meee32

it really is that simple myself i think it be discredited just the fact every study included a plastic part cartos are coted in plastic inside and out if u have ever taken a carto apart ud trow them all away and never use them again its got rubber and plastiv litteraly touching the wire that gets hot ... now my mind is turning

looking at my clearo theres a rubber cap on it bet u that sucker gets hot im looking at a iclear 15 to be exact

now back on to the testing idea if u where to do the test one thing to remeber is u exhale phemaldehyde i may have the chemical confused hear but i belive its true ... a long talk is inorder to my bologist brother ... who dosent work in bioligy or id be asking a favor ... he drills wells dont ask me why but he loves it

im shure exopeshaly on the vapor form where all of us sub ohmers hang out they could build a colection device

Sorry for the delay I had a phonecall with a friend and he's coming over soon so I may not be around shortly either. But we can explore this further for sure! I really like the idea of capturing the vapour and turning it back into a liquid, it should be pretty easy to achieve with some modification. I also think there should be 2 tests/methods... We need to devise a way to capture it without us inhaling it, which will be the hardest as you really need to suck on it to get the vapor out. Maybe if you had the e-cig upside down and you blast it a few times the vapor would turn to liquid inside the spout and then you could capture underneath?

Then have one where we inhale and exhale into something and create the condensation/liquid.

As you say then it is just a matter of sending it off to a lab for analysis.

I started on the cartomizers and I have taken one apart and know exactly what you mean, you're dead right there, and interesting you found rubber on the ivape too.

We could also breath into something without inhaling the vape as a control?

I think it would be really awesome to organize and I am willing to put some hours into it. I think we should start with testing brand new over the counter vaping devises, just get a small selection and then test as you go. Write reviews based on the evidence found. Be the "which" of vaping

originally posted by: markovian
how u know whats in them is bye not simply taking something as fact lol

idk if i can post a organic juice site on hear probly not just type in organic vg juice on the old google and within 3 sites ull have it

its a good start maby nor perfect even they could be fake from china

as much as i hate the idea of regulation im on the fence hear will it help or hurt i have no idea drive the price up to where its to cost prohibitive ... (wow i spelled that on my own lol )

on a side not wouldent our own ecig sub form be nice ... its a place where i could do more than read and have relitive inpute hahaha otherwise i just read would love to post some build and all that

Yeah I will defo look into that, I have seen the various juices before.

I think a vaping subforum could be a grand idea, not sure how you would go about it? Maybe there is a mod floating around that could help us out there?

The op says, " in the peer-reviewed journal Nicotine and Tobacco Research "

I don't know who these folks are but it seems to me a science journal about nicotine and tobacco would be heavily influenced by the tobacco industry. They can have 2, 3 4 studies all confirming the same thing and there is nothing to say these studies were not doctored in favor of the tobacco industries.