Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' Of Wealth

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I have . Taken economics depends some models are bunk others are right on .

Ran a construction company 15 y last job manage a whole sale industrial equipment store 8 y supervisor for a municipality 8y .

Do some traveling and you will get a clue. In many countries workers have some legal support but many dont .

By your example we should keep these people living in shanties getting paid .75/ hr for the same job in US get 12 ? so inflation dont set in ? Hope your boss tells you that the next time you ask for a raise.

FACT: MARY WORSHIP, AND PEDOPHILES... isn't what Jesus taught. QUITE THE CONTRARY...

FACT #2: Satan has OBVIOUSLY infiltrated the pulpits of Catholicism to peddle such unholy evil and rituals!!! WAKE UP!!!

a reply to: FlyersFan
The pope and his cohorts have no control over the wealth accumulated by the RCC. The Rothschilds have had control of that since 1823. They also control EVERY central bank on the globe with the exclusion of Cuba, Iran, North Korea and Sudan. Libya was their latest conquest. The pope is a puppet who holds no power what so ever and he in no way represents Jesus Christ.

Are you people reading the same stuff I am? I am a devout atheist, yet this is exciting. I would normally call anything that comes from a Popes mouth utter trash yet having this read I applaud him. Some good points about the church being hugely rich and all but methinks someone has grown a conscience. I have grown to be quite a socialist in my old age, and I see most other folk as they grow older and wiser choose more socialistic ways of life.
Spreading the word amongst the masses... Can anyone who is upset by this (eg FlyersFan) be specific on what they are upset about?

a reply to: FlyersFan

Got to wonder how much gold made it from the New world to the coffers of the Catholic church and how much blood was spilled to secure it. I wonder if any of that wealth will ever be returned? IMHO the Catholic church is eyeing North America again, as the hispanic and largely Catholic population grows, it will try to increase its sphere of influence here.

Ok I'll be the first to say that this is hypocritical. The Vatican has an enormous amount of wealth - and I agree, it's pretty disgusting to say the least.

But think about it... Is this really just the Vatican that's the problem? The Vatican needs to hold on to power and influence and the only way to do it in such a corrupt world is having Money. They use all the money to help the poor and they lose all influence. Granted, morally that shouldn't even play a part - Influence vs the poor - But lets face it, this world and certainly the Vatican isn't perfect.

Religion has done a lot of bad in it's time, especially this denomination of Christianity. And this coupled with the amount of wealth and seemingly, greed that goes on in that place is definitely hideous. However, It hasn't all been bad and like the OP said - What the Pope says on social and spiritual matters are actually great things to hear. And whether you like to believe it or not, the influence of the Catholic church hasn't all been bad.

Remember for general purpose: The world is corrupt, not just the Vatican - And not just the leaders of the CATHOLIC faith. The issue is far too widespread to make singling out the Vatican at all effective in sorting out the issue.

To me, there's a reason why all of these different ideologies and religions exist, because there's always a hint of truth or good in them. To me, it takes a combination of capitalism and socialism/communism for the world to be happy. What I mean by this is that capitalism drives innovation, however, if the people who made it big with their innovations don't share their wealth and keep them all to themselves, then it doesn't do much good.

I think the most innovative people tend to be the most greedy and lazy(remember that Bill Gates quotes about hiring lazy people to do the toughest jobs, and people tend to innovate more if they are driven by the profit motive, i.e greedy), so the "homework problem" to be solved here is to get those greedy and lazy to be more philanthropic, or to get the hard-working and kind-hearted people to be more innovative.

Asking the state to fix the problem with mankind losing their compassion, by forcing them to give up their own greed, is like asking a blind man to fix the problem with people getting lost in the wilderness, by drawing maps and designing roadways.

The problem obviously needs to be fixed, but can only happen through a societal shift of consciousness...not by the enlisting the very focal point of the problem, the corporate crony oligarchy, to fashion a solution, which continues to pit the Outer Party and the Proles against one another, whilst the Inner Party sits on high, smokes a Churchill, and guffaws with a maniacal laugh, not unlike The Penguin.

Well, redistribution of wealth is obviously contentious and tricky.

However, it comes down to one simple thing: If wealth over the last hundreds or even thousands of years has been gathered via often exploitative, feudal, corrupt, or illegitimate means, resulting in many people not enjoying the fruits of their community's labor while a precious few gather untold wealth and capital, then why should those people be able to hoard it? How would that be just or "spiritual?"

It's kinda like, if you found it one of your kids had been stealing a dollar a week from your other child's allowance, gathering a hundred dollars, would it be just for that child to scream "how dare you give it back or make me share?"

The first step guys is to recognize that a few have been harvesting capital and wealth off the many for centuries, and most money is "old money."

originally posted by: FlyersFan
Okay, now he's making me nervous. When he speaks on spiritual matters, I'm right there with him - Do not judge; Pray; Help the poor and sick; Don't exclude people; Love God and Neighbor - All fantastic. But when he starts talking about massive 'wealth redistribution' through 'the state' ... YIKES! In fact, DOUBLE YIKES!! Money corrupts, and using the corrupt UN to demand 'wealth redistribution' ... and using 'the state' (countries), all of which are corrupt, to funnel money??? That's insane. The money would be stolen from hard working people and, while some would be given to those in need, most would end up being taken by 'the state' or 'the UN' or whoever else handles it. They'd decide they know how best to use it and it would become a corrupt bureaucratic black hole for the money. (not to mention it would be a dream come true for the New World Order).

I maintain that private groups and faith based groups are the best way to help those in need. NOT the corrupt United Nations; NOT the corrupt 'state' (countries)'; and not the New World Order ...

Pope Demands 'Legitimate' Wealth Redistribution

Pope Francis called Friday for governments to redistribute wealth to the poor in a new spirit of generosity to help curb the "economy of exclusion" that is taking hold today. Francis made the appeal during a speech to U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and the heads of major U.N. agencies who met in Rome this week.

Latin America's first pope has frequently lashed out at the injustices of capitalism and the global economic system that excludes so much of humanity, though his predecessors have voiced similar concerns.

Read more -
Huffington Post
The Epoch Times
MSNBC Morning Joe

I'd like to see debt relief and laws to stop 3rd world countries taking more debts that keep them in the sinkhole with no chance of ever catching up to the 1st world. Some ppl want this to be the status quo.

en.wikipedia.org...

Perkins' function was to convince the political and financial leadership of underdeveloped countries to accept enormous development loans from institutions like the World Bank and USAID. Saddled with debts they could not hope to pay, those countries were forced to acquiesce to political pressure from the United States on a variety of issues.

I'd wager big companies and so on do it for reasons just like "keep these brown skin ppl from ever getting out of the debt hole".

originally posted by: igor_ats
I'd like to see debt relief and laws to stop 3rd world countries taking more debts that keep them in the sinkhole with no chance of ever catching up to the 1st world. Some ppl want this to be the status quo.

en.wikipedia.org...

Perkins' function was to convince the political and financial leadership of underdeveloped countries to accept enormous development loans from institutions like the World Bank and USAID. Saddled with debts they could not hope to pay, those countries were forced to acquiesce to political pressure from the United States on a variety of issues.

I'd wager big companies and so on do it for reasons just like "keep these brown skin ppl from ever getting out of the debt hole".

I agree money can indeed be used as a means of control. But theirs a catch as well without investment that country will remain a 3rd world nation. People have to have a reason to invest there money in the first place in countries this is highly dependent on infrastructure. People dont invest in unstable countries and to get investments requires spending money to get the money they borrow it. If they dont they are stuck not having the money to attract business. Its a catch 22 the only way i can think to resolve this would be if we no longer used money at all but than that would be the dreaded nw world order everyone scared of where everyone works together.

I don't think wealth should just be scooped up from the rich, then flopped down into the poor/middle class just like that. Unless it has been obtained illegally and unjustly in the first place.

I do strongly agree, however, that these greedy companies that hoard all of their wealth need to start paying their employees better. Some heads of companies get paid like 350 times more than their average employee. That is completely and utterly insane. There's no way in the world they work 300+ times harder than their employees. What the hell is someone going to do with $100,000,000+ in their life time?

I know how it feels first hand. I currently have a minimum wage job. That's $7.50 an hour, and technically only about $5.62 an hour after all of the government taxes I have to pay. Which is usually about 1/4 or 3 months out of a year for a worker. While the company I work for is a multi-billion dollar organization in most U.S. states, with I believe about 11,000 locations with something like 100,000+ employees.

And you always hear people saying "Oh, they need the money to expand, and they create the jobs, so they need all of it. Don't bite the hand that feeds you." Yeah, that's true to some extent, but what do you think happens when you actually pay your workers more money? They go out and they spend it. They buy anything and everything they desire. They get a higher education. Their self esteem and happiness goes up, making them happier and more motivated at their jobs. They can afford more things, thus making them be able to spend more money. they use this money to invest in companies. And so on and so forth. It's supposed to be one nice little balanced trifecta between worker, company, and consumer. If one group is at a heavy advantage over the others, it starts to gum up the works. And negative outcomes start to emerge.

Okay, now for what he really said:

“POPE URGES ‘LEGITIMATE REDISTRIBUTION’ OF WEALTH,” blares the Associated Press headline, followed up by this opening paragraph: “Pope Francis called Friday for governments to redistribute wealth and benefits to the poor in a new spirit of generosity to help curb the ‘economy of exclusion’ that is taking hold today.”

Well, no, that’s not actually what the Pontiff said. He did mention “legitimate redistribution,” and there’s no question such phrases carry a certain political payload to Western ears, at every point in the political spectrum. Noting that early reports of this address from the Pope to U.N. officials in Rome tended to, shall we say, condense his remarks into an endorsement of totalitarian socialism, some have argued Pope Francis’ full remarks are very nearly the opposite - a call to voluntary private charity, using the Biblical example of Zacchaeus, a corrupt tax collector who sees the error of his ways after meeting Jesus. One gets the impression that many of the left-wingers applauding the Pope’s remarks missed the rather salient detail that Zacchaeus was a thieving abuser of government power who enriched himself by looting taxpayers.

Source

a reply to: FlyersFan

I couldn't agree more, but I have questions about what is legitimate. No single person NEEDS 50 Billion much less 1 Billion when people are starving on the streets due to no fault of their own. However, what criteria should we use for redistribution. Inheritance families like the Walton/Walmart children are each worth 50 billion because daddy made the company seems a good place to start. They didn't create the company, build, develop work hard for anything. They inherited it and HIRED good managers to increase their inheritance. This is not legitimate in capitalism, its called riding on the coat-tails of others work and use their managers to EXPLOIT workers to unethically increase it.

In this day and age no one should be able to inherit 1 billion dollars and say pull yourself up by your coattails