Pope Demands 'Legitimate Redistribution' Of Wealth

Lecturing the world on wealth redistribution is rich coming from an organization who "controls the keys to heaven".

Ill support redistribution when the Catholic church accepts redistribution in religious doctrine and acknowledge they don't hold a monopoly on a persons soul.

I just love it attack the messenger and not the message.


Keep knocking to pope all you want .

These mega corps will lay off Americans, Brits , and any other place with a good wage . Move a factory to a 3rd world country pay them 10th of the other workers. Then sell the product for the same price as before . Our state departments help keep the crony dictator in power so the mega corps can reap the profit.

look at the oil fields in the middle east some of the richest men in the world ruling over some of the poorest. Somalia also dirt poor people a few in the government getting rich.

A corporation can have a bad year CEO gets record bonus paid company vacation exotic place >>> lay off 25 % of the work force the rest have to pick up the slack.

Capitalistic system works if its not turned to a predatory system.

1985 gas $1.20 roughneck pay $18.65 / hr min wage $3.35
2014 gas $3.90 roughneck pay $15.00 /hr min wage $7.35

Does that look like we are getting a fair shake ? Oil and gas making great profits.

I am not for redistribution but for a fair wage.

a reply to: Lostinthedarkness

Well when the pope is talking redistribution hes talking exactly what your complaining about. He thinks the west should invest heavily in 3rd world countries moving wealth to them to prevent hunger and disease. Sounds great on paper but it really doesnt raise peoples standard of living for example a company moves to south america for cheaper labor. They dont pay any more than local businesses however Americans loose those jobs completely. This of course leads to lower wages and lower taxes in the west now the government doesnt have the money to fund projects and Aid reduces. Its a catch 22 now if the pope has a way to avert this lets here his plan but to say well wealthy needs to support the poor sounds good in a speech but is nothing but lip service.

a reply to: Lostinthedarkness

uhm ok...

How much money does the Vatican control?
How much territory does the Vatican control?
How many people follow Catholicism?

In case you missed it the Vatican cannot be compared to a company being its a nation. Why do we have clergy spending millions on homes? Why has there been a bank scandal involving the Vatican over the last decade? Why did it take so long for the church to try and deal with the molestation issue and why have the bulk of those cases been settled out of court via a payoff with little to nothing done towards the clergy involved.

Unlike a corporation, when you join the church as a member of clergy you take a vow of poverty.

again, they have no room to lecture business in areas they are just as guilty of doing.

originally posted by: Lostinthedarkness
I just love it attack the messenger and not the message.

Wrong. It's the message that is being knocked. The message is wealth re-distribution is good .. as long as it's not our wealth that's being taken.

The message is hypocritical.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Lecturing the world on wealth redistribution is rich coming from an organization who "controls the keys to heaven".

Ill support redistribution when the Catholic church accepts redistribution in religious doctrine and acknowledge they don't hold a monopoly on a persons soul.

I agree,...

The Pope should work on cleaning up his own pedophile back yard and maybe have a yard sale of all the material treasures that the Vatican is littered with before spouting off on what the rest of us should be doing with our wealth...

a reply to: Xcathdra


How much does world bank control? Halliburton,Saudi family , Carlye group ?

There is alot of charity work threw Catholic Charities.

Have you paid any attention at all to this pope he is trying to live what he preaches . Or oh hes catholic why bother.

A story in the Bible he who is with out sin cast the first stone. If a person truly repents the sin is forgiven the sin is as far from you as east is from the west. Is the basis for the pedophile priests.

www.dailymail.co.uk... ml

State District Judge Jeanine Howard this week stunned the court by sentencing self-confessed rapist, Sir Young, to a mild 45-day prison term and five year probation, instead of the maximum 20-year jail stint.

Same crap

originally posted by: Lostinthedarkness


A story in the Bible he who is with out sin cast the first stone.

I will apply that here. When the Pope is without sin (re-distributes all Catholic wealth) then he can cast his stone (ask others to do so).

Thank you for showing how unbiblical this Pope is.

a reply to: dragonridr

I would like to see ideas on paper .

If a company invests in a 3rd world country paying fifty cents / hrs even if it is the going wage in that country but here the job paid 16.00/hr that is taking advantage of the poor . That is exploitation.

Then you and I are still paying 39.99/ jeans

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Nice spin on the story .
Good innovative rebuttal throw all in a blender blend 5 min make what you want with the pieces.

You would realize the pedophile priests was in the same paragraph as If a person truly repents the sin is forgiven the sin is as far from you as east is from the west . As a basis for forgiveness .Usually a paragraph is a singular topic.

originally posted by: Lostinthedarkness
a reply to: OccamsRazor04



Nice spin on the story .

Good innovative rebuttal throw all in a blender blend 5 min make what you want with the pieces.



You would realize the pedophile priests was in the same paragraph as If a person truly repents the sin is forgiven the sin is as far from you as east is from the west . As a basis for forgiveness .Usually a paragraph is a singular topic.

That's great, I am not talking about pedophilia, I am talking about his idea of wealth re-distribution. Or does that verse only apply to things you want it to? The verse has a meaning, it applies to the topic at hand, the Pope is a hypocrite.

The problem with redistribution:

let's say we take every dime from everyone, and redistribute it evenly tomorrow. In the US, and our economy, each person over 18 would get about $235k. Next week, you'd have the poorest out with their hands out. Next year we'd be 40% of the way to where we are now (as far as income distribution) and in 5 years we'd be back to where we are.

A fool and his money are soon parted. The founding fathers of America covered this subject extensively in their writings. Redistribution does not work, you need a psychological solution. We need an entrepreneurial economy to have a lasting effect. Government, through regulation, stifles such an economy.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
The problem with redistribution:



let's say we take every dime from everyone, and redistribute it evenly tomorrow. In the US, and our economy, each person over 18 would get about $235k. Next week, you'd have the poorest out with their hands out. Next year we'd be 40% of the way to where we are now (as far as income distribution) and in 5 years we'd be back to where we are.



A fool and his money are soon parted. The founding fathers of America covered this subject extensively in their writings. Redistribution does not work, you need a psychological solution. We need an entrepreneurial economy to have a lasting effect. Government, through regulation, stifles such an economy.

No people not working and on welfare should make the same as a business owner who works 16 hours a day. Because no one will ever say WHY am I busting my balls working when I make the same as the guy doing nothing.

Why get a college education? Why go to high school? Why work 40 hours? Why do anything?

Although eventually our economy will actually have to transform into something similar to that, where 95-99% of the population is on pay Tier A and does nothing .. and the rest are the best of the best on pay Tier B and do all the thinking ... and the actual manufacturing/work is done by robots.

a reply to: Lostinthedarkness

and the point of the thread was the pope calling on wealth redistribution.

Before the church attacks a position that is not supported by all they should make sure their own house is in order first.

Calling on companies to take actions to redistribute wealth and end cronyism has less effect when the messenger belongs to an organization under investigation for fraud and money laundering.

try again...

Maybe they should lead by example. It's not like the Vatican is broke, faaaaaar from it.

Turn that collection plate into a congregational disbursement plate, and I'll see you all on Sundays.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04


Sticking to the issue instead of mix and match.

One form of wealth redistribution is fair wages . And a Fair price for goods. Heck some of these factories, farms ,or mines are as close to slavery as you can get.

If you go to Acapulco Guatemala or Belize and stay in a $120/night motel you will find the workers maids bellhops living in a shanty town getting .75-1.50/hr stay at the New Orleans on the los Vegas strip 120 night maids paid 12/hr live in okay housing . Thats totally taking advantage of the poor.


hosted.ap.org...

Francis urged the U.N. to promote development goals that attack the root causes of poverty and hunger, protect the environment and ensure dignified labor for all.

Umm like the fancy motels costing 120 and paying squat.

A close friend owned 9 dive shops across 7 countrys you worked for him you got you got 8/hr grunt work or instructor 12/ hr starting US , Mexico where ever they were at got same wage. He still made a lot of cash. He retired multi millionaire .

This is what he was talking about dignified labor decent wage good employers .

If the Us can give 300m here 300 m there 600m to Palestinians 300m Syria 300m Egypt ect ect . We can certainly give money to them to kill each other but heaven forbid we take car or our own poor.

Heck we could have given every American a tax rebate instead of whats going to our enemies and border line friends . Or eradicate hunger in a majority of the world.

This is redistribution of wealth this comes from a, corporate taxes b, loan from china ( which middle class will pay back). Taken from one place moved to who they think should have it.

en.wikipedia.org...

In fiscal year 2012, the U.S. government allocated the following amounts for aid:

Total economic and military assistance: $48.4 billion

Thats enough for every person in the world to have food and shelter. This money is taken from someone and redistributed to others.

We can arm our enemies but we cant help stamp out poverty or hunger. That is hypocritical .

Redistribution is Redistribution saying one is fine the other anti capitalist and communistic is bs . To call it any thing else is just playing word games.


This whole bash Pope for seeking dignity for the poor is hypocritical if you are in USA it going on its called food stamps welfare

And of course corporate welfare bail outs tax free periods , Redistribution is Redistribution from us to them.

a reply to: Lostinthedarkness

You need to take some economics classes my friend, and get a clue. What happens when you raise fast food worker's wages by $5 an hour .. you now need to raise EVERYONE's wages .. which means more costs .. which means everything is more expensive, jobs stop hiring, it's hard to find any work whatsoever, and in the end everyone is worse off.

What does Vatican City have as a minimum wage?

Yes, its hypocritical of The Roman Catholic Church to preach and lecture about wealth redistribution.

But that doesn't get away from the core message - that the basic underlying reasons behind poverty, famine etc should be addressed and the immoral disparity between the have's and have not's should be reduced.
For this to occur a certain amount of wealth redistribution would be inevitable.

How to address these issues?
I haven't got a clue - I'm just an ordinary, everyday Joe - but that doesn't make me blind from the blatant inequalities and injustices in the world.

Perhaps the Pontiff and his church would be taken a bit more seriously if they used their enormous and obscene wealth to make a positive and lasting impact on the lives of the most unfortunate in this world instead of sitting on it and obsessing about accruing even greater amounts.

Acts and deeds.

a reply to: Lostinthedarkness

One key issue being ignored when it comes to foreign business is the government in question.

There are nations whose government sets the wages that can be paid. The company is not allowed to change it so wages and income gap are not completely the fault of the business's. The next question is then why should business be in those countries?

There are several ways to view that question and most likely all views are valid. If the business stays it employs locals and contributes to the local economy. It also can cause job loss in other countries who pay higher wages. It can lead to a loss of jobs in the home country as well.

The only way I can see to end wealth gaps would be for a unified monetary system - globally that is outside of the local governments ability to mess with it.

When it comes to do what a job or item is worth compared to others -
That's a question that been debated for along time -

Capitalism where supply and demand are the key phrases
and
Communism - where the argument is a Doctors job and worth is the equivalent as that of a farmer or teacher.

Both have proven to be problematic and cause problems. Personally speaking if we compare both for long range solutions the Capitalist system better allows for flex / demand and changes as well as incorporation of new technologies and methods.

Long story short - what the Pope is calling for is noble and to en extent I agree however the manner in which its being portrayed is not as simple or as black and white as its being made out to be.

originally posted by: Freeborn
How to address these issues?

Acts and deeds.

A system that is devoid of personal wealth and accumulation of material items coupled with a complete change in mindset when it comes to those who have and those who have not.

To be honest something akin to the Star Trek universe. A system where money is not a common item with a goal of advancing society and ones self while giving up material collection.

An Ideal goal for sure but again, even in that universe you will find issues in the 24th century that are still present from today.