The Light of Denderah.

The OP's claim concerning what Egyptologists say about this artwork is simply wrong.

What Egyptologists say about it is what the Ptolemaic Egyptians wrote about it on the walls of the same chamber.

You can read all about it, with the texts translated, here.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

Harte just a simple question, I personally see being corrected if I am wrong as a learning experience and you are never too old to learn but your flat our statement is itself not tenable.
Egyptology is not as scientific as it should be along with archeaology and history and like those other two subjective professions is riddled with assumption and mis categorization so if the OP is wrong please direct us to the imperical evidence that this is so and not someone else assumption or opinion.
But I believe you know that no such imperical evidence actually exist's, also the flat our denial of any potential ground breaking data about the past whatever our own preconcieved notions and whatever there purpose smacks very much of party line rather than calculated thought out debate that you are actually perfectly capable of and I dare say more than most.
So I will say that again, the OP is not wrong it is an interpetation every bit as valid as the standard egyptologist model and perhaps even less biased as seen from a modern interpretation and I know some less than reputable authors such as Mr von danikan have claimed this before but why throw the baby out with the bath water when he himself was probably quoting another source, he was a showman into making best sellers and actually faked the existance of platinum discs in a cave in one of his book's which never actually existed but this heiroglyph and several other strange UNTRANSLATED glyph's such as the heliocoptor (remember the gliding bird model found in a tomb) and indeed the enigmatic heiroglyph free osirion site are unexplained (all new kingdom sites and most old kingdom were plastered in heiroglyphs as the pharoe thought that for his KA to survive his name had to survive and told his story and exploits to the world so he would never die) and in some cases poorly dated, Egypt stood as a civilization (Or actually several) for nearly 4000 years before the roman conquest and in that time several distinct periods such as the old and new kingdoms which in many way's are better looked at as distinct cultural/civilization period's occured thus contaminating possible older site's and perhaps reusing them, the sphynx may have been recarved from a lion or jekyl and had a twin on the other side of the nile which was allegedly damaged in a nile flood then robbed out to repair cairo but sounds like it was built of blocks at a later date to match the remodelled giza sphynx.
Sorry Harte but you are not the defacto authority and are not alweys correct,.

a reply to: Hanslune

That information is new to me and thank you for telling me, filed and registered.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Howdy Lab Tech

Just a suggestion the use of paragraphs would greatly aide the reader in understanding your writings.

Egyptology is not as scientific as it should be along with archeaology and history and like those other two subjective professions is riddled with assumption and mis categorization

So fringe theory beats the disciplines listed above and isn't subjective, riddled with assumptions and mis-categorizations? Considering that fringe often has scores of contradicting theories on the same subjects I don't see how that can be the case.

Taking something out of context and applying modern meaning to it can often lead to problems.....

a reply to: LABTECH767

Where did you get the info of another sphinx across the Nile from I would like too know thanks

a reply to: Harte

Hey Harte

The secret of understanding Dendera is to ignore the 'bulbs' and read what the Ptolemy era Egyptians were writing about in the rest of the temple. Learn all that THEN come back to the part that the fringe concentrates solely on and what does it say - its a religious statement - that despite the unusual motifs - is about four of the gods, etc. It very difficult to construct something else, convincingly once it is looked at as part of the larger temple and the district and complex it is in.

originally posted by: douglas5
a reply to: LABTECH767

Where did you get the info of another sphinx across the Nile from I would like too know thanks

Abu Abd Allah Muhammad al-Idrisi al-Qurtubi al-Hasani al-Sabti (Al-I'Drisi) who wrote about it in كتاب المسالك والممالك‎, Kitāb al-Masālik w’al- Mamālik, a geographical encyclopedia on Asia and Africa.

However, I have never read that particular document and don't know exactly what it might say

a reply to: Hanslune


That's the question i also ask, were they truly devoted to Hathor in creating the awesome Temple that is Denderah or was it as a cynic would suggest a means of keeping the populace happy, was Hathor chosen due to her association with gold and copper, a conduit of the power of Ra, to project their own interests in mysterious forces of electricity onto, as well as the Atum and Wadjet.



If they had developed limited capabilities with such they clearly had no interest in sharing the technology with anyone, but it could certainly be used to impress and consolidate one's position of power. Both Ptolomaic Rulers and Roman generals are seen holding the solar disc, i don't think that or any of the other irregularities are down to lack of understanding and confusion, it makes it's own statement about possessing the power of Ra.



a reply to: Harte


Frank is truly hopeless on Egyptian mythology and iconography, and that's were the incongruities are here, he's better on construction techniques

originally posted by: Hanslune
a reply to: Harte

Hey Harte

The secret of understanding Dendera is to ignore the 'bulbs' and read what the Ptolemy era Egyptians were writing about in the rest of the temple. Learn all that THEN come back to the part that the fringe concentrates solely on and what does it say - its a religious statement - that despite the unusual motifs - is about four of the gods, etc. It very difficult to construct something else, convincingly once it is looked at as part of the larger temple and the district and complex it is in.

Context is everything, isn't it?

The artwork in question is actually a script for a religious ceremony, along with an inventory of the contents of that particular storage room, IIRC.

Objects in the many storage rooms in the temple were taken out and used in ceremonies on appropriate dates. Veneration of one of the aspects of Horus could be accomplished in that particular "light bulb" storage room by small parties, I suppose, but (unless I misremember) it was actually for storage.

Harte

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Howdy Kantzveldt

While I see your point I'm influenced in my opinion by the long centuries of work done to bring electric light to completion in the modern age. Countless baby steps, intermediate discoveries in supporting technical areas and finally a long period of partial successes. Virtually None of which is noted as having occurred at that time in Ptolemy Egypt. However, given the limited recovering of info from that age we are left with a ?

It always amazes me how quickly we write off ancient technologies.... We have proof they built monstrous earthquake proof buildings (pyramids). A feat that to this day we admire as an incredible feat of human ingenuity (or alien, or more ancient so on and so forth). ... but then we are able to quickly dismiss the notion that they had an inkling of electricity.

Just think about this for a moment. Static electricity is everywhere. Ancients would have experienced this phenomenon just as we do. They had lightning storms. We think that these people that CREATED the religion the masses still adhere to, that CREATED the pyramids that people still don't know how they were built, that CREATED trade routes that exist to this day and CREATED societies lasting thousands of years.... weren't smart enough to link static electricity with lightning???

They are using copper tools, they have citric fruits, all they need is Zinc or some other element that will become the negative post and they have created measurable electricity. Enough to produce a shock in their skin. Call me crazy, but, if the materials you are working with are almost exclusively copper and stone I find it hard to believe that you don't stumble on electricity at some point. We always assume we have progressed so far since the ancients, but up until about the 1800's (MAYBE 1700's) society had been in a state of severe regression from about 1000 ad (or earlier) and forward. The crusades and other wars, religious or not, throughout history destroyed a WEALTH of knowledge that we may never recover. Just look up global literacy rates through these years and you'll quickly understand why knowledge was 'lost' and 'forgotten'.

Our understanding of the ancients makes me want to travel back in time with some fuzzy slippers and run around shocking people telling them I have been given the touch by the gods! Pretty sure they would laugh in my face and tell me exactly what phenomenon I'm demonstrating.

I sent a flashlight back in time. Soon i will pull a bill and ted.

a reply to: Hanslune

It does though make me question how long preliminary investigation could have been going on behind closed doors, and if the Hermetic Mystery schools of places such as Alexandria were motivated and inspired to considerable extent by the perceived potential of harnessing such natural energies, given their obsessive interest in 'the light', an overlapping of speculative mysticism and the natural sciences which the Greeks were noted for.

There is of course speculation that electro-plating may have been practised in such times and perhaps that is were the potential was first developed, in engaging the cult of Hathor as conduit and Horus as establishment, the two eyes of Ra, as representatives of the power of this illuminating force, and that of the Atum and Wadjet as generative principles involved with Thoth the holder of the Eye of Ra in the absence of Horus they seemingly set down much of the symbolism that later re-emerged in the Renaisannce and then the age of Enlightenment.

a reply to: Harte


Yes it was used for storage for objects to be carried in procession at the appropriate festival, which is why i think what is seen illustrated would have been processed to shock and awe the natives

a reply to: Seancwolfe

Yet the Chinese, Indian and Islamic civilizations never developed electricity, the Parthians may have developed electro plating but that is disputed and it took the Europeans until the late 19th century to do so*.and all knew about static electricity.

*develop a generator and functional light bulb

a reply to: Hanslune

Hanslune the use of Electricity is not simply applied as we do today and there is enigmatic evidence of potential use of electricity to electroplate item's, they probably had no grasp on how this alchemy worked but they seem to have used it.

en.wikipedia.org...
www.china.org.cn...

As I remember the story a sword was found in one of the terracotta pit's still sharp enough to slice silk but it's handle and handle mount had long since rotted/rusted away, upon inspection they found it to have a micron thin layer of chromium and only electroplating could account for this, BUT,.

Right as far as I can ascertain there is no actuall proof that the chromium plating story is true but I did see it on a documentary some time back so will have to place a disclaimer in that I can not find actuall evidence but what I do know is that the Chines had water powered blast furnaces in the 6th century while we were in the dark age, indeed if it had not been for a confuscious dedicated xenophobic inward looking emperor the US, australia and many other places today may have been chinese colony's after the grand fleet had made it's epic tour and voyage of discovery around the pacific and they also had ship to ship (Firework) missiles, there huge ships had converse bulkheads based off of the way cane grow's (Titanic) so I am not comfortable saying what the chinese could and could not do.

But I do think the Baghdad battery may have been used in electroplating and we are incredibly arrogant if we think these people of the past were another species whom were less capable than us, indeed I think they may very well have made many discovery's in the past only to miss out on applying and capitalizing on then and heron of alexandria come's to mind - though he built on earlier greek inventions it is sobering to think on what the world may have become had the roman empire invented the train.

The great bath's in Rome had triple glazing.

Indeed so much as lost after the fall of Rome which itself was built of integrating idea's from conquered territory's that it was over a thousand years in the west before civilization again compared.

Concrete that set under water.

Dome and Arch.

High rise high density living.

So yes they had also the prototype of many modern problems that afflict today's society's.

Still and again it is sobering to realize that earlier chinese city's have have been over four time's larger than ancient rome at it's peak.

Remember the story of how the mongols took the chinese capital and burned it to the ground, the street's ran with human fat as possible four to eight million people whom had fled there for safety burned in it's flame's, gory but taken from historical account's.

Oh erm ah Yeah My gramer is awful sorry about that.

I will include this possibly ficticious tale as it talks of a city with light that never go out and in that is far from unique though how much have they been polluted by the modern world.
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

a reply to: douglas5

www.catchpenny.org...
www.gigalresearch.com...
If so then they guarded the gateway to the Giza necropolis and that gateway being the Nile along which most transport through egypt was accomplished.
So it is not that far fetched that they may have originally been Inpau statues.
Of course they may have later recarved a leonin head into the Jekyl form then later into the human face possibly as over time each successive age led to weathering and damage and so the second sphynx may have been a later addition so this does not challenge Robert Bauval's observation's as the current (old) sphynx would still be looking at Hor Em Ahkti (Horus of the horizon whose name it shared or the constellation of Leo) in 10600 BC and so I may be the oldest structure in egypt, the supposed stalae between it's paw's does not name it's builder but the pharoe names himself the restorer of the site.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: douglas5

www.catchpenny.org...
www.gigalresearch.com...
If so then they guarded the gateway to the Giza necropolis and that gateway being the Nile along which most transport through egypt was accomplished.
So it is not that far fetched that they may have originally been Inpau statues.
Of course they may have later recarved a leonin head into the Jekyl form then later into the human face possibly as over time each successive age led to weathering and damage and so the second sphynx may have been a later addition so this does not challenge Robert Bauval's observation's as the current (old) sphynx would still be looking at Hor Em Ahkti (Horus of the horizon whose name it shared or the constellation of Leo) in 10600 BC and so I may be the oldest structure in egypt, the supposed stalae between it's paw's does not name it's builder but the pharoe names himself the restorer of the site.

Howdy

Its not a structure its a large carving created by removing limestone from around it, or in other words a monolithic statue. In the past the head notably stuck out and may have meant something to the pre-dynastic cultures which however weren't particularly into stone working at that time. Bauval just made up that connection. Consensus opinion is that it was an object of interest before the stone around it was quarried out to make a mortuary temple and whatever it might have been was carved to resemble one of the pharaohs. The nob of stone itself that stuck up is hundreds of thousands or millions of years, no one knows when it might have been modified (if it ever was) the present sphinx carving is of a old kingdom Pharaoh

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Hanslune

Hanslune the use of Electricity is not simply applied as we do today and there is enigmatic evidence of potential use of electricity to electroplate item's, they probably had no grasp on how this alchemy worked but they seem to have used it.

en.wikipedia.org...
www.china.org.cn...

As I remember the story a sword was found in one of the terracotta pit's still sharp enough to slice silk but it's handle and handle mount had long since rotted/rusted away, upon inspection they found it to have a micron thin layer of chromium and only electroplating could account for this, BUT,.

Right as far as I can ascertain there is no actuall proof that the chromium plating story is true but I did see it on a documentary some time back so will have to place a disclaimer in that I can not find actuall evidence but what I do know is that the Chines had water powered blast furnaces in the 6th century while we were in the dark age, indeed if it had not been for a confuscious dedicated xenophobit emperor the US, australia and many other places today may have been chinese colony's after the grand fleet had made it's epic tour and voyage of discovery around the pacific and they also had ship to ship (Firework) missiles, there huge ships had converse bulkheads based off of the way cane grow's (Titanic) so I am not comfortable saying what the chinese could and could not do.

But I do think the Baghdad battery may have been used in electroplating and we are incredibly arrogant if we think these people of the past were another species whom were less capable than us, indeed I think they may very well have made many discovery's in the past only to miss out on applying and capitalizing on then and heron of alexandria come's to mind - though he built on earlier greek inventions it is sobering to think on what the world may have become had the roman empire invented the train.

The great bath's in Rome had triple glazing.

Indeed so much as lost after the fall of Rome which itself was built of integrating idea's from conquered territory's that it was over a thousand years in the west before civilization again compared.

Concrete that set under water.

Dome and Arch.

High rise high density living.

So yes they had also the prototype of many modern problems that afflict today's society's.

Still and again it is sobering to realize that earlier chinese city's have have been over four time's larger than ancient rome at it's peak.

Remember the story of how the mongols took the chinese capital and burned it to the ground, the street's ran with human fat as possible four to eight million people whom had fled there for safety burned in it's flame's, gory but taken from historical account's.

Oh erm ah Yeah My gramer is awful sorry about that.

Yes there is a lot o rumours and internet chatter about chromium plating on bronze blades but zero scientific evidence for it. Do you have a link to the published report that studied this?

The Baghdad pottery could have been used for electro-plating but as found would not have worked as batteries, only our modern knowledge of electricity allows us to make the modifications to them to allow them to do so. AFAIK no plated items have been found from that period, electro-plating is technically easier that producing the series of technical advances to produce an electric light.

Yep lots of people did lots of things but as far as I know none of these great efforts involved the generation of electricity that could power a light bulb.

a reply to: Hanslune

That is perfectly correct and it is as you say possible that the ancient stone had the aspect of a lion's head and the ancient's simply carved the rest of it out so it could potentially have been a more ancient neolithic cult site as well, perhaps even as far back as the savana period of the sahara the end of which may have given rise to the first egyptian culture as the people retreated to the still fertile river banks from the encroaching desertification of there now lost hunting ground's and became permantently settled in non nomadic village's.
Even in it's orthodox interpretation the history is still fascinating.
I wonder which is really older, the fertile crescent or the nile valley culture's.
And as I point out I can find no evidence to back up that chromium plating story though that does not preclude that some may exist, the chinese museum whom hold the blade may have more information but then they have a vested interest in national pride so how legitimite would that be.
As for the battery I can see no other purpose for the metallic rod in it's centre unless it was actually a part of something else that was stored in that jar as we may bit's and pieces in our tool box's and some time's misplace them, I wonder if any one ever tried to see it is may have had writing or been a metal scroll of some kind but now I am grasping at straw's.

a reply to: LABTECH767

I was just researching that and it appears the Chromium is part of the mixture of bronze blades, probably introduced with 'contaminated' tin was added to copper to make bronze or the copper itself had some chromium oxide in it.

I'll see if I can find the original studies of the metallurgy of the terracotta warrior's weapons