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The Light of Denderah.

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posted on May, 9 2014 @ 07:07 AM
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The Ptolomaic Temple of Hathor is notorious for it's suggested 'light bulbs', i want to consider the greater context of this here. Egyptologists will explain that what is seen is the Atum serpent within the womb of Nut, and they are correct, those are elements involved, what they don't explain is why this was never previously seen illustrated in such elaborate fashion, how someone could be seen holding a metaphysical abstaction of the process of creation, and why this should be seen emerging from a water lily, when in fact it was a transformative process that saw the child Nefertum-Ra emerge into the physical realm from the lily, not the serpent, in the sense of birth, so the elements are correct the context is wrong.



Given i have issues then with the explanation provided i wanted to look in more depth at Denderah to see if there were other aspects of the iconography that suggested the Greeks were dabbling in electricity and representing this in the context of traditional Egyptian iconography, there is some suggestion found in the iconography of Wadjet, the daughter of Atum, seen below either side of Hathor offering the light of the Sun.




Wadjet-She was said to be the patron and protector of Lower Egypt and upon unification with Upper Egypt, the joint protector and patron of all of Egypt with the "goddess" of Upper Egypt. The image of Wadjet with the sun disk is called the uraeus, and it was the emblem on the crown of the rulers of Lower Egypt. She was also the protector of kings and of women in childbirth.

The ancient Egyptian word Wedjat signifies blue and green, the sun goddess whose eye later became the eye of Horus, the eye of Ra, and as the Lady of Flame, Another early depiction of Wadjet is as a cobra entwined around a papyrus stem, beginning in the Predynastic era and it is thought to be the first image that shows a snake entwined around a staff symbol. This is a sacred image that appeared repeatedly in the later images and myths of cultures surrounding the Mediterranean Sea, called the caduceus,.


On the 'Birth House' at Denderah this iconography of the cobra entwined around the reed pole is seen to a considerable extent, given her role as a child birth protector, in association with the Divine birth this would be in the context of giving birth to the light, of Ra. Below either side of the panel can be seen the full extent in terms of length she was represented at Denderah as the trailing cord, seen on all exterior panels of the birth house, as below for example were Heka offers the light.



While this is a traditional motif, at Denderah this is seen then greatly exaggerated and quite un-naturalistic



Wadjet represented as the Cobra lower Egypt and as the Vulture upper Egypt, these two could be combined in her symbolism, she also represented the elements of Earth and water therefore in her relationship to the reed bed grounding and the element of air, as the Vulture, and the transformation onto fire and light of the solar disc, hence the importance of this all embracing symbol



It is this alchemical transformation of natural elemnents that is seen below, in the context of the Divine Childs' emergence, it is as if the blue-green elements of water-organic life are drawn up and transformed into the elements of the red-golden Sun.


An interpretation of the Milky Way was that it was the primal snake, Wadjet, the protector of Egypt. In this interpretation she was closely associated with Hathor and other early deities among the various aspects of the great mother goddess, including Mut and Naunet. The association with Hathor brought her son Horus into association also. The cult of Ra absorbed most of Horus's traits and included the protective eye of Wadjet that had shown her association with Hathor.

When identified as the protector of Ra, who was also a sun deity associated with heat and fire, she was sometimes said to be able to send fire onto those who might attack, just as the cobra spits poison into the eyes of its enemies. In this role she was called the Lady of Flame.





Given Hathors' association with copper it might be the case that the Greeks were seeing Wadjet as the principle through which blue-green electricity can be conducted through a cable and how this can produce flame-light, if they were dabbling in electricity her cult could be seen in such a context.


According to another myth Wadjet was the daughter of Atum (or later Ra) who was sent her as his "eye" to find Tefnut and Shu when they were lost in the waters of Nun. He was so happy when they returned that he cried and created the first human beings from his tears. To reward his daughter, he placed her upon his head in the form of a cobra so that she would always be close to him and could act as his protector.

She was one of the goddesses given the title "Eye of Ra" . In fact the symbol of the "Eye of Ra" was often called "the Wedjat". In this form she was sent out to avenge her father and almost caused the destruction of mankind.

Wadjet


Inside the Birth House itself were Hathor is seen with the child the Wadjet columns are seen to end in spiral coils rather than the cobra, same serpentine aspect of course.



If there was experimentation with electricity and this represented in mystical context it would appear this secret was well kept and the knowledge of the few with no consideration of mass utilization, an aspect of magical practise, literal guardians of the light.






edit on Kam531128vAmerica/ChicagoFriday0931 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 9 2014 @ 07:14 AM
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thank you ....

for showing things in a different light....



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 07:29 AM
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a reply to: tri-lobe-1


Here's a light that's a little different






posted on May, 9 2014 @ 07:36 AM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt

In the light of what you have pointed out, we rest assured that the mystery surrounding this particular depiction will not be solved anytime soon ... by the way: a very informative thread, S&F!



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 07:53 AM
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Is there actually any evidence they were utilizing electricity technologically?
I realize it's possible but I don't see any solid evidence. Seems like mostly empty speculation.

The reasoning seems quite flawed as well, will just start with the first paragraph:


Egyptologists will explain that what is seen is the Atum serpent within the womb of Nut, and they are correct, those are elements involved, what they don't explain is why this was never previously seen illustrated in such elaborate fashion, how someone could be seen holding a metaphysical abstaction of the process of creation, and why this should be seen emerging from a water lily, when in fact it was a transformative process that saw the child Nefertum-Ra emerge into the physical realm from the lily, not the serpent, in the sense of birth, so the elements are correct the context is wrong.


I actually am afraid that's out of context.


they don't explain is why this was never previously seen

That seems totally irrelevant to suggesting electricity usage doesn't it?
Earlier renditions could have been lost or destroyed, or alternatively 'you gotta start somewhere'.


how someone could be seen holding a metaphysical abstaction of the process of creation

What? Why cannot imagined entities hold imagined objects in art depictions?


emerge into the physical realm from the lily, not the serpent

The Lily is secretly the Serpent :

Water Lily and Cosmic Serpent: Equivalent Conduits of the Maya Spirit Realm


This study examines the roles of the serpent and water lily in Maya epigraphy and iconography and, from an
ethnobotanical perspective, interprets these elements in Classic and post-Classic Maya images and glyphs in
ways that challenge conventional wisdom. We introduce a new and testable explanation for the evident Maya
perception of a close symbolic relationship between the feathered serpent and the water lily (Nymphaea ampla
DC.), whereby we identify the plant’s serpentoid peduncle with ophidian images and the plant’s large-petalose
(plumose) flowers with avian symbols. Physical and symbolic similarities between the Water Lily Serpent, the
Water Lily Monster, the Quadripartite God, a rain/lightning deity referred to as Chahk, and the Vision Serpent
are assessed with the suggestion that these entities share a closer relationship than previously suspected based in
large part on their shared and overlooked water lily attributes.
Our novel interpretations are presented in light of
recurrent suggestions that Nymphaea ampla was employed as a psychotropic medium in religious and
dynastic rituals.


Tons of more info out there.
Don't be fooled by the "What Err Lie Lie".
That's why I prefer the "Lie Lack".



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 07:54 AM
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a reply to: jeep3r

Interesting that they seem to have had awareness of electrical coils,I'd seen this before in connection with the Wadjet cobra at Denderah.



An electromagnetic coil is an electrical conductor such as a wire in the shape of a coil, spiral or helix.[1][2] Electromagnetic coils are used in electrical engineering, in applications where electric currents interact with magnetic fields, in devices such as inductors, electromagnets, transformers, and sensor coils. Either an electric current is passed through the wire of the coil to generate a magnetic field, or conversely an external time-varying magnetic field through the interior of the coil generates an EMF (voltage) in the conductor.

A current through any conductor creates a circular magnetic field around the conductor due to Ampere's law.[3] The advantage of using a coil shape is that it increases the strength of magnetic field produced by a given current. The magnetic fields generated by the separate turns of wire all pass through the center of the coil and add (superpose) to produce a strong field there





a reply to: muzzleflash


It isn't the case that earlier Egyptian depictions could have been lost, like i said it doesn't make sense in terms of the classical Egyptian mythos to depict what's seen with the Denderah lightbulb, the elements are all standard but combined in a unique way, also you are seeing something that was intended to be carried in procession, normally a simple effigy of the Deity, not such a contraption, it looks to me therefore the Greeks were parading the light of the Atum made manifest to impress the Egyptians no end.


Again in terms of wrong un's, what is the explanation for the greatly extended and un-naturalistic extent of the Wadjet serpent seen at Denderah, has to be a reason right...?

I'm fully aware of how serpentine Deities manifest through Lillies, but what emerges is never serpentine. In Egyptian mythology Nut swallows the sun at sunset, is carried through into her womb and then is reborn as the light, the water lily being the transformative process, Khepri emerging from within, then Neferatum, then Ra, various stages, but never the serpent as that's the whole point of transformation, thus what is seen at Denderah is suggesting the serpent emerges from the lily into the womb....just wrong.
edit on Kam531128vAmerica/ChicagoFriday0931 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

edit on Kam531128vAmerica/ChicagoFriday0931 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 07:59 AM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt

This may have been more ancient knowlege either from egypt of braught by priests from the persian empire by the ptolome after the destruction of Persepolis the captital city of the persians which was said to be a wonder of the world and alexander wanted it erased as it stood as a chalenge to the greek ideal of superiority.
Like the baghdad battery and the chromium plated chinese sword's these are indications that at least at some level science weather understood or not was being used in practical applications but then again we tend to think of poison gas and chemical weapons as modern when in fact they were being used in mesopotamia over 4000 years ago.
I stand at the idea that the priesthood's around the civilized world were founded by groups whom guarded ancient knowledge from a lost age and though ritual and worship probable eroded it away it was in some small degree preserved until the end of there age but in fact they may well have prevented that knowledge from flowering into a technological civilization by there very belief that such magic was there provenance alone and so preventing others from exploiting it.
Now weather that knowledge was from a lost age or an external extra terrestial source or simple a forgotten genius will not be ever known by us but odd's on that someone out there know's the truth and may still be sitting on some secrets today but weather they understand them or not is another philosophical question.
S+F.
No smoke inside the tomb's or pyramid's and poorly reflective metal mirrors supposedly illuminated them while they pained the cielings sometimes many hundred's of feet inside twisting passageway's and large chambers.
Were there is a will though there is a way even without technology of that type, still it is far from in isolation as you know and there are other enigmatic images and even objects such as the bird glider or the delicate disk which look's like a piece of machinary but is of unkown use and too delicate for practical machine use.
The egyptian priests were known as great magician's in the ancient world though as shown in the story of mosus when they create snakes from there staffs only for mosus snake to eat there snakes.



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 08:00 AM
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originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: jeep3r

Interesting that they seem to have had awareness of electrical coils,I'd seen this before in connection with the Wadjet cobra at Denderah.


An electric coil ?
Why jump to such far-fetched conclusions ?

I have a super easy suggestion that fits way better:


Don't make me uncoil it.



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 08:06 AM
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originally posted by: LABTECH767

No smoke inside the tomb's or pyramid's and poorly reflective metal mirrors supposedly illuminated them while they pained the cielings sometimes many hundred's of feet inside twisting passageway's and large chambers.


What if they did all the artwork before the construction was complete?
Like everything was laid into place as it was built, rather than brought in afterwards.

In this case you could use a torch for the one or two times a trip is needed to be made, which would leave such minimal evidence we probably wouldn't notice it after thousands of years.

Just a possibility that I haven't actually heard suggested yet, but I'm sure someone's thought of it.
Perhaps the Egyptians thought of it? Occam's Razor Burn?



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 08:25 AM
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a reply to: muzzleflash


It's the power of Wadjet that is seen coiled, that's a cobra and what was symbolized though it, not a whip...


a reply to: LABTECH767

I dunno, it seems to me the Greeks were the more technically minded and inventive, certainly any evidence from Denderah is of the Greeks.


edit on Kam531128vAmerica/ChicagoFriday0931 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 08:26 AM
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originally posted by: Kantzveldt
thus what is seen at Denderah is suggesting the serpent emerges from the lily into the womb....just wrong.


Please explain what you mean.

Are you saying the creator of the depiction is wrong according to what you think it should look like?
What kind of art criticism is that?

If I understand what you mean (which I am not sure exactly), but it sounds similar to me saying that Dali was "wrong" for making his clocks melt as I've never seen such a thing in real life.



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 08:31 AM
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originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: muzzleflash


It's the power of Wadjet that is seen coiled, that's a cobra and what was symbolized though it, not a whip...



Don't be disingenuous.
You clearly were suggesting the coils represent possible hidden electrical technology.

Now it's "the power of Wadjet" ? Is that a back-pedal or paddle?

Your exact quote was :

Interesting that they seem to have had awareness of electrical coils,I'd seen this before in connection with the Wadjet cobra at Denderah.



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 08:36 AM
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a reply to: muzzleflash


First read the standard explanation.

Denderah lightbulb explained.


Then familiarize yourself with the Egyptian creation myth of the Atum, and then perhaps you will realize why the Atum serpent could never be seen emerging from a water lily into the womb of Nut, what should be seen is the Sun or a personification of it emerging into the sky being born, i'm saying it's wrong because i know Egyptian mythology, and because i know people aren't born into the womb but from it...

Wake up and smell the water Lily

a reply to: muzzleflash


You're being tiresome, in the OP i made the case that the Greeks were seeing the power of Wadjet as relating to the flow and conduction of electricity.


edit on Kam531128vAmerica/ChicagoFriday0931 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 08:41 AM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt



and because i know people aren't born into the womb but from it...


Wrong!

You are born from the Womb of God, and then Return to the Womb (Tomb) of God. I don't believe you know your Tome.
edit on 5/9/2014 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 08:47 AM
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originally posted by: Kantzveldt

You're being tiresome.


I'm not tired.
Why afraid of a little debate?

You are trying to claim the creator of a myth was wrong based on some one else's myth.
It's ridiculous.

They don't actually conflict though, you are just interpreting it incorrectly.
I mean cmon you called them "wrong" for making a depiction you didn't agree with.

That's not how you interpret something properly.
They didn't make a mistake you did.
edit on 5/9/2014 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 09:19 AM
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originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: jeep3r
 

Interesting that they seem to have had awareness of electrical coils,I'd seen this before in connection with the Wadjet cobra at Denderah.

Interesting comparison, I guess it's "technological awareness" versus "artwork & symbolism". Depends on where you stand in this debate. Taking it a bit further one could include more visual comparisons:



If we, for a moment, consider the pillars above being respresentations of electromagnetic concepts, then the way in which the currents run in a wire (to produce north and southpoles in a soft steel bar) would perfectly match with the opposing turns on the pillars and the diagonal lines in the segments to the left and right.

Could be artwork & symbolism, or something related to electromagnetism ... when considering the resemblance of the Dendera lights with a Crooke's tube then it's IMO difficult to think about everything just being artwork, but I guess everyone has to decide for themselves!



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 09:35 AM
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I have heard that on the web a few time before, that it was believed that the Egyptians had electrical lamps. Although, I have never seen full out prove though.

It would be interesting that if mythology actually hid some modern day clues to theories such as the Ohms law and the Electron. However, if humans were that dumb back then, as they were clever, they probably did fear such methods. Like, bronze age metaphysically speaking...If you got electrocuted, you probably think it was god punishing you. And in today society, you probably could get away with that one, because that person probably did.

I will give one a greek one, for example. Compare Ohm law about Pressure, Current, and Resistance to the three main deities personas of the culture. Zeus, or Posidian could be ether current or voltage, since they kind don`t like each other, but at the same time they get along well enough.

Now look at Hades, his realm was consider borderline # to his brothers, and will resist both Gods, due to his Jealousy, and Anger for being tricked out of the ruling the sky, where as he rules earth somewhat. Silly example, but the idea still somewhat presents itself.

It would be nice, if there was much old myths, and I mean much older. Next thing you know, 10,000 years, it was the Hyperion age like Conan.

S&F
edit on 9-5-2014 by Specimen because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 09:56 AM
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a reply to: jeep3r


Yes it's the non-standard iconographic elements at Denderah that all seem to be indicating an interest in the production of light and transmission of current, even the passing around of the solar disc/light as seen in two examples in the OP is non-conventional, they wouldn't normally be seen exchanging Ra amongst themselves!



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 04:15 PM
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a reply to: Kantzveldt

Interesting but I would say its just inexperienced artists creating something from a mythos they no longer fully understood. This art was created in the late Ptolemaic period some 2,000+ years after the start of recording of these types of religious thoughts.

One must ask why would they have mixed electricity with AE concepts and placed them into a temple?

Just a thought



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 04:22 PM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

One note




No smoke inside the tomb's or pyramid's and poorly reflective metal mirrors supposedly illuminated them while they pained the cielings sometimes many hundred's of feet inside twisting passageway's and large chambers.


That one was debunked decades ago, they used castor or olive oil with salt which produces very little soot they also used a method of placing either mud or cloth over the ceiling (except for the part being painted or chiseled) at, the mud and cloth was removed along with the soot after they were finished. Mostly they tried to do all such work before it was covered up but of course that was not always possible.
edit on 9/5/14 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)




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