Saudi Arabia - 1,000 Lashes/10 Year Sentence For Editor Who Discussed Religion

a reply to: the owlbear

How much more entrenched do we need to be?

When I get flogged and beheaded for daring not to bow and pray to Mecca.
When my daughters are forced to wear a burka.
That's how entrenched you will need to be.

Saudi Arabia is a unique case. First it is the center and home of Islam. Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy.

Although the country's rulers are an absolute monarchy the laws are governed by the conservative imams of Mecca and not even the monarchy can disagree with these clerics in public.

Islam does not tolerate non-believers so as Saudi Arabia is the most conservative of islamic states this guy telling people he is an atheist is like asking to comit suicide.

Like many Asian countries, muslim and non muslim, children are dominated/repressed by their parents and obeying your parents is non-negotiable. If you disobey your parents you can be ostracised or even killed if deemed to bring shame on to "the family".

I agree with the OP about how lucky they are to live in a country with secular law, but Islam and Saudi Arabia carry so much religious baggage they have no choice.

The King of Saud could not liberalise Saudi Arabia because the Clerics would not allow it.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: the owlbear

How much more entrenched do we need to be?

When I get flogged and beheaded for daring not to bow and pray to Mecca.
When my daughters are forced to wear a burka.
That's how entrenched you will need to be.

So buy an electric car. Otherwise you're supporting the regime.
The US tortures people on a daily basis...on our soil and especially in places we dont know about.
Why is the prison population majority Black when they make up about 18% of the population?
The colonies had public flogging and stoning until damn near 1900. Lynchings went on longer. No trial, just a good ol' fashioned hanging.

Cultures are different. I'd like to think that mankind has evolved. But we haven't. I'm sure many Christians in this country would love to bury someone up to their head and stone them to death contrary to the teachings of the Nazarene, who was enlightened for his age.

Religions come and go...the hearts of the people remain the same.

originally posted by: ispyed
The King of Saud could not liberalise Saudi Arabia because the Clerics would not allow it.

He could try. But then, that would screw up his mega-billions in the bank. So I guess not ....

I don't believe this should ever be tolerated. UN should have called for world police action long long ago, but not bombing them and dumping all our nuclear waste on them in the form of depleted uranium weapons, REAL HELP. Really get rid of the governments and sharia and restructure the countries. Use the NORWAY model.

originally posted by: butcherguy
Tolerant bunch, those Muslims.

I can't wait for them to become firmly entrenched in the US so that we can have their version of peace.

Not.

This has everything to do with people in power controlling what it means to be Sunni(salafi/wahabi) muslim trying to control the Sunni muslim and destroy the Sufi and Shia so that their control over the faith becomes absolute.

This is the same thing that the catholic church was doing during in the dark ages. I am still waiting for the Sunni muslim version of Martin Luther to create a Protestant Reformation.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

I am still waiting for the Sunni muslim version of Martin Luther to create a Protestant Reformation.

That fellow would find his head disconnected from the rest of him in short order.
Those imams are fairly strict.

originally posted by: markosity1973
Can we just nuke them off the face of the earth yet?

Oh that's right, they have OIL. I guess we'll put up with their tyranny towards themselves and us while they still have something we want.

Since there are innocent people forced to live under these rule being brainwashed against their will this is to harsh for them. Not all people in Nazi Germany was an asshole and the same is true in Salafi/Wahabi Saudi Arabia.

But you might get your wish in the end. The terrorist attack in Russia for the Syrian conflict might make Russia overreact on Saudi Arabia one day.

a reply to: the owlbear

So buy an electric car. Otherwise you're supporting the regime.

Two problems with your theory.

1- Islam spread by the sword long before oil was being pumped out of Saudi ground.
2- Even if it was connected to oil.... the Chinese would buy Saudi oil, the Europeans buy it.... and they are overrun by radical Muslims.

That man has been sentenced purely to make him an example of the grand mufti's power and to ensure no one else wants to question it.

Fortunately for many muslims sharia is dealt with differently to Saudi where they practise wahadism which is a fundamentalist view and not for the faint hearted. I saw sharia being dealt out in an African country where a man was publically flogged with what looked like a curtain tassel. The whole thing was little more than a joke and public show, although the judge or whatever he called himself certainly took himself very seriously indeed.

Thereby lies the problem with Islam I suspect and especially its extreemists.

Its those who run it and the exacting and fearful sentences they can invoke, which is the essence of power they hold over the people. This not only qualifies their existence, buth they back up their position by the religious and somewhat secret police they utilise. Imagine if someone decided to flog ones 13 year old daughter in public for some utterly petty reason and you couldn't stop it for fear of a death sentence.

Its hardly a wonder in the more extreme islamic countries that people want to leave islamic countries and seem to want to think only of their religion as something based on love. Its a totally different concept to reality in countries like Saudi, Iran etc etc.

The religious administrators (for want of a better word) hold far more power because they have infiltrated politics and the minds of the people. Although we have bishops in the House of Lords and they do have input into our laws, they are not the dogmatic biggots with no compassion or understanding of anything other than their own religious view, which dictates their interpretation of the religious laws that they govern through. In fact religion, and especially Islam, which is purely focused on the benefits of the male only, is the one forum where an insignificant man can leap up the ladder of fame, without anything to recommend himself by except a psychopathic desire for control that no one, whoever they are, can hold him to account for.

I would not be surprised, if after so long under these shackles, more men and some women may not rise up and actually voice the need for change. I know from a Saudi student who stayed with us in the 1990's that he took nearly a year to get his father to allow his wife and two little girls to come to England to live with him. He wanted her to learn the language and to drive, so perhaps change has been coming on for some time and is now starting to show its face in public. I hope people support this poor man who is incredibly brave.

originally posted by: stirling
We can kidnap and imprison people of the foreign nations we invade....send them to gitmo and torture them for indefinite amounts of time...we can bomb anyone who doesn't agree with America....we can send economic hit men to friendly nations to subvert and even destroy therm....
But we are the good guys.......
Bad Saudis ....good Americans...yeah right...

The US will never touch the source of terrorism (Saudi Arabia) since terrorism is a problem created to exists so that US can implement what they want without people being upset.

Yes Saudi Arabia is the source of Salafi/Wahabi a fundamentalistic versions of Sunni Islam that get greater by playing the west against Islam card. You bomb Muslims and Saudi Arabia get more control over the Sunni Islam with their media. Just like the plan was. Brainwash people to do House of Sauds bidding with the use of religion for material wealth and at the same time get control over the population.

Iraq/Syria/Iran was not the source of Salafi/Wahabi. Now we have made Iraq a place where Salafi/Wahabi is more common for instance Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. US politicians/CIA and House of Saud in symbiosis creating problem/solution.

How any human being can treat others like that is just barbaric. The people are tortured and killed for no reason. How can they get away with that? What is wrong with people? How can they be so brainwashed into thinking such things are acceptable?

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: ispyed
The King of Saud could not liberalise Saudi Arabia because the Clerics would not allow it.

He could try. But then, that would screw up his mega-billions in the bank. So I guess not ....

I agree. It is not a King of Saud vs Clerics. It is King of Saud and Clerics taking control thru brainwashing.

www.fatwa-online.com...

High Judiciary Council of Saudi Arabia
As of a decree of January 2013, its members were

Mohammed al-Issa (Minister of Justice, president of the Supreme Judicial Council)
[4] Al Nahayan (Arabic: آل نهيان Āl Nahyān/ English: The house of Nahayan) are one of the six ruling families of the United Arab Emirates. A very rich person
Sheikh Ghaihab bin Mohammed Al-Ghaihab (chief justice of the Supreme Court)
Sheikh Shafi Al-Haqbani (justice of the Court of Appeals)
Sheikh Mubasher Al-Gharman (justice of the Court of Appeals)
Sheikh Saud Al-Muejib (justice of the Court of Appeals)
Sheikh Mohammed Mirdad (justice of the Court of Appeals)
Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Nessar
Sheikh Nasser Al-Mohaimeed
Sheikh Fahd Al-Majed. [3]

Funny that it is princes(Sheiks) not religious scholars who are issuing how the Quran should be interpreted in Fatwas.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: the owlbear

So buy an electric car. Otherwise you're supporting the regime.

Two problems with your theory.

1- Islam spread by the sword long before oil was being pumped out of Saudi ground.
2- Even if it was connected to oil.... the Chinese would buy Saudi oil, the Europeans buy it.... and they are overrun by radical Muslims.

Christianity was spread likewise.
1492 wasnt just the year Columbus "discovered" America.
Both the English and the Spanish kicked out all non-Christians under penalty of torture and death.
The religions of Islam...yes there are many varied sects just as with all major world religions are no different. But they are 600 or so years newer than Christianity.
Do i condone the actions of these governments? HELL NO!
But why did the US not care about Hussein's invasion of Kuwait? Documents are finally out there that say, yeah go for it! (Bush the elder, only head of the secret police to ever be elected chief of state).
Then the tanks were parked on the Saudi border...and gulf war one was the result.
You can't do anything about it, nor can I. It sucks. But take that rage and try to build up your own community. The Muslims have a word for it called "umma". Volunteer. Make your own world a better place.

originally posted by: Night Star
How any human being can treat others like that is just barbaric. The people are tortured and killed for no reason. How can they get away with that? What is wrong with people? How can they be so brainwashed into thinking such things are acceptable?

The US still has a death penalty.
1 in 5 is later found not guilty.

a reply to: the owlbear

Christianity was spread likewise.

We were not talking about Christianity, we were talking about Islam. (anyway, where is Christianity being spread by the sword today?)

But take that rage and try to build up your own community. The Muslims have a word for it called "umma". Volunteer. Make your own world a better place.

What rage?
And what do you know of my activities in my community?

originally posted by: the owlbear

originally posted by: Night Star
How any human being can treat others like that is just barbaric. The people are tortured and killed for no reason. How can they get away with that? What is wrong with people? How can they be so brainwashed into thinking such things are acceptable?

The US still has a death penalty.
1 in 5 is later found not guilty.

I know. That's scary!!!!

WHITE HOUSE AIDE LINKED TO AL QAIDA
The thread is more radical than the Muslim Brotherhood. It is the Muslim World League, a group accused of financing al-Qaida fronts. The organization’s offshoots have been declared official terrorist organizations by both the State Department and the United Nations.
Yet despite the troubling facts, Muslim World League-linked individuals have been in key national security positions and are currently helping to run the military’s chaplain program.

wealthydebates.com...-1724

you can't make this stuff up....

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: combatmaster

I said it that way on purpose.
I don't believe 'GOD' would approve of the religious rules of law that we are seeing.
So I say 'thank you God' for not making me live under religious rule.

It pretty clear Jesus did not want Christians to be any part of the political system.

so your right, he wants Christians as far removed as possible.

Christians did not exist when Jesus was alive!

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: the owlbear

Christianity was spread likewise.

We were not talking about Christianity, we were talking about Islam. (anyway, where is Christianity being spread by the sword today?)

But take that rage and try to build up your own community. The Muslims have a word for it called "umma". Volunteer. Make your own world a better place.

What rage?
And what do you know of my activities in my community?

Good for you for your being active in the community! Even better you seek no accolades for your work.

My comparison of mmentioned Islamic states and "Christian" ones still has merit. Remember the 600 year difference? Christendom was doing the same to unbelievers about that long ago and even after...maybe in 600 years this will be moot.